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Two Senators want Antifa labled domestic terrorists

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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:57 am

Aureumterra wrote:
East Ustya wrote:Somebody should work for F*X news.

Just a curious question, why did you censor the word FOX in Fox News?


I am wondering the same. Its the opposite from fair and balanced.
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American Pere Housh
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Postby American Pere Housh » Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:58 am

What I would like to see is one of these thugs get their ass handed to them when they try to attack a person who has a black belt or its equivalent in any known martial arts.
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Postby Nakena » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:00 am

American Pere Housh wrote:What I would like to see is one of these thugs get their ass handed to them when they try to attack a person who has a black belt or its equivalent in any known martial arts.


Well you got Kyle Chapman, also known as the Alt-Knight and Based Stickman whoses fate it was being insulted and attacked on Facebook for being refusing to subscribe into the alt-right's ideology.
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American Pere Housh
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Postby American Pere Housh » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:00 am

Nakena wrote:
Aureumterra wrote:Just a curious question, why did you censor the word FOX in Fox News?


I am wondering the same. Its the opposite from fair and balanced.

Neither is CNN,ABC,NBC,MSNBC,OR CBS.
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Aureumterra
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Postby Aureumterra » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:02 am

American Pere Housh wrote:What I would like to see is one of these thugs get their ass handed to them when they try to attack a person who has a black belt or its equivalent in any known martial arts.

They only go after the weak, mainly because their own combat skills look like this
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Postby Fahran » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:02 am

Aureumterra wrote:We don’t seem to agree on that

Someone forgot the first lesson in daycare. You don't get to hit people just because they're jerks.
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Postby Thermodolia » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:03 am

Vassenor wrote:
East Ustya wrote:What about the far right movements like the KKK and NSM?


We're not allowed to talk about those because it makes it harder to use this to justify sweeping up dissenters in the guise of a counter-terrorist action.

You’re the only one who’s saying that
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Postby Aureumterra » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:04 am

Fahran wrote:
Aureumterra wrote:We don’t seem to agree on that

Someone forgot the first lesson in daycare. You don't get to hit people just because they're jerks.

Yep. Radicals (and Ifreann apparently) forget that
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Postby East Ustya » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:04 am

Nakena wrote:
Aureumterra wrote:Just a curious question, why did you censor the word FOX in Fox News?


I am wondering the same. Its the opposite from fair and balanced.

That is the point, as neither was his comment.

And the censoring was an attemped joke.

Brand sensoring and all.
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Postby Duvniask » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:06 am

Aureumterra wrote:
Fahran wrote:We seem to be drifting away from the actual subject of the thread. Why are we discussing the ideologies of these organizations and comparing them to determine who is less bad if we all seem to agree to the basic premise that initiating violence is bad and unlawful?

Ifreann wrote:Crimes aren't always bad. Kinda like violence.


We don’t seem to agree on that

Disagreeing with both kind of lands you in a contradiction, as violence is sometimes needed to enforce the law (hence why we refer to the state as having a monopoly on violence or the legitimate use of force).

We can certainly argue that the law is not always just. I would say the same for violence, which might sometimes be just.
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Fahran
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Postby Fahran » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:07 am

American Pere Housh wrote:What I would like to see is one of these thugs get their ass handed to them when they try to attack a person who has a black belt or its equivalent in any known martial arts.

I don't really want to see people get seriously injured if it can be avoided. Like I said, I'd rather people who incite riots, harass passers-by, assault people, and make a public nuisance of themselves beyond the bounds of allowable protest were arrested by the police to protect both themselves and others.

Duvniask wrote:Disagreeing with both kind of lands you in a contradiction, as violence is sometimes needed to enforce the law (hence why we refer to the state as having a monopoly on violence or the legitimate use of force).

We can certainly argue that the law is not always just. I would say the same for violence, which might sometimes be just.

Yes, but the sort of violence certain left-wingers are advocating here is difficult to characterize as legitimate, moral, or desirable and goes against the trend of the state having a monopoly on violence in most circumstances. It's also dangerously close to advocating terrorism and illegal activity to be honest, especially if we follow such arguments to their logical conclusion.
Last edited by Fahran on Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Duvniask
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Postby Duvniask » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:10 am

Fahran wrote:
Aureumterra wrote:We don’t seem to agree on that

Someone forgot the first lesson in daycare. You don't get to hit people just because they're jerks.

Meanwhile, in reality, society generally tolerates it if you have the law on your side.

This obviously doesn't mean that the law is necessarily right, just as it doesn't mean that violence outside of the law is necessarily morally wrong.
Last edited by Duvniask on Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Fahran
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Postby Fahran » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:13 am

Duvniask wrote:Meanwhile, in reality, society generally tolerates it if you have the law on your side.

1. That's not exactly true. You can still get in trouble for being excessive or even for being disorderly.

2. Antifa doesn't have the law on its side in many of these cases.
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:14 am

Rojava Free State wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Is there a regime in human history that hasn't caused untold suffering and misery? I'm not aware of one. I guess that means that all ideologies are morally equivalent. Good and bad are actually the same.



Do you want me to keep repeating that antifa is a thing people do, not a group they join?

I'm sure that does sound equal to you. I'm sure that you very consistently judge ideologies by body count. Hey, quick question, how many billions of people have died under capitalism? In fact, don't answer. Maybe just think about it. This thread isn't really about which ideology you think is the worst and why.

If you can state a thing to be true without providing an argument for that being the case then surely I can contradict you without providing an argument.



I think they would disagree, and describe their actions rather differently. What makes you right and them wrong?

It's usually Proud Boys that prowl the streets looking for people to attack.

Four members of Patriots Prayer were discovered on a rooftop with a cache of firearms ahead of a rally in Portland in August of last year. They were dispersed by the police, but not arrested or charged, even though there is no plausible explanation for their behaviour but that they were planning to carry out a terrorist attack. No one outside the police force even knew about this narrowly averted massacre for months.







Tell me how you hate identity politics.

It can be that and fighting fascism.


First off there are ideologies that don't cause untold mass murder, one of them being liberal democracies like that of Sweden or switzerland.

As I said, this isn't really on topic. So I won't be pursuing that tangent further.
Second, I never defended the proud boys. Just because the other side is bad doesn't mean your side is good. Third, refer to my second point.

I know you only brought up and defended Patriots Prayer, not the Proud Boys, I never said otherwise, but I'm not saying that those groups being bad means that anti-fascists are good. However, consider that those groups have not been subject of a resolution being put forward by Republican Senators. You keep saying that antifa are violent thugs who are just as bad as fascists. But the GOP aren't condemning the Proud Boys and Patriots Prayer. Ted Cruz appeared on Louder With Crowder with the founder of the Proud Boys, Gavin McInnes.

So we must ask ourselves, why the different treatment? Could it be, perhaps, that the GOP see political advantage in condemning antifa? Could it be that that label could be applied to any left wing activist? Well then suddenly the entire left are terrorists, or affiliated with terrorists. How advantageous to the right. Left wing protests and rallies could be shut down whether there's unrest or not, for fear of the presence of dangerous terrorists.
Fourth, antifa is a specific movement and tactic, not just being antifascist. I even provided you a link about what it is but you didn't read it I see.

I went back and checked and it looks like you edited those links into your post after I read it. Regardless, I don't really care what Wikipedia has to say.
Fifth, I'm not pro identity politics. I'm not accusing them of being racist or homophobic, I'm just saying the guy they attacked sure doesn't fit the profile of a fascist.

Why not? You do know that fascism isn't exclusively European, don't you? Japan wasn't in the Axis as a liberal democracy.
Sixth, you aren't fighting fascism when you vandalize the young republicans club meeting. You're fighting people for not agreeing with you

Well, no, when you're vandalising property you're vandalising property, not fighting people. But you seem to be under the impression that a Young Republicans Club can't possibly be advancing the cause of fascism. Which is silly. Where else would fascism make in-roads into mainstream politics, if not the GOP?

Oh I almost forgot the part about self defense. It isn't a matter of debate or disagreement. When you go looking for a fight, you aren't defending yourself. Antifa constantly looks to start trouble, they are aggressors

Are they constantly looking for trouble? You say so, but I'm sure they would say otherwise. I ask again why you are right and they wrong. Further, is it necessarily true that people who go looking for a fight are the aggressors? Is it not possible for people to go to a rally or protest, knowing full well that there is a strong possibility of violence breaking out, and still be acting in self-defence when attacked? I will remind you that Andy Ngo was not jumped randomly in the street or attacked in his own home. He went to a rally, and went there with a group he knows are prone to carrying out violent attacks. One could easily say that he was looking for a fight. Maybe you don't think so, but you can no more read his mind and know his true intentions than you can read the minds of any of his unknown assailants.
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Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:19 am

Ifreann wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
First off there are ideologies that don't cause untold mass murder, one of them being liberal democracies like that of Sweden or switzerland.

As I said, this isn't really on topic. So I won't be pursuing that tangent further.
Second, I never defended the proud boys. Just because the other side is bad doesn't mean your side is good. Third, refer to my second point.

I know you only brought up and defended Patriots Prayer, not the Proud Boys, I never said otherwise, but I'm not saying that those groups being bad means that anti-fascists are good. However, consider that those groups have not been subject of a resolution being put forward by Republican Senators. You keep saying that antifa are violent thugs who are just as bad as fascists. But the GOP aren't condemning the Proud Boys and Patriots Prayer. Ted Cruz appeared on Louder With Crowder with the founder of the Proud Boys, Gavin McInnes.

So we must ask ourselves, why the different treatment? Could it be, perhaps, that the GOP see political advantage in condemning antifa? Could it be that that label could be applied to any left wing activist? Well then suddenly the entire left are terrorists, or affiliated with terrorists. How advantageous to the right. Left wing protests and rallies could be shut down whether there's unrest or not, for fear of the presence of dangerous terrorists.
Fourth, antifa is a specific movement and tactic, not just being antifascist. I even provided you a link about what it is but you didn't read it I see.

I went back and checked and it looks like you edited those links into your post after I read it. Regardless, I don't really care what Wikipedia has to say.
Fifth, I'm not pro identity politics. I'm not accusing them of being racist or homophobic, I'm just saying the guy they attacked sure doesn't fit the profile of a fascist.

Why not? You do know that fascism isn't exclusively European, don't you? Japan wasn't in the Axis as a liberal democracy.
Sixth, you aren't fighting fascism when you vandalize the young republicans club meeting. You're fighting people for not agreeing with you

Well, no, when you're vandalising property you're vandalising property, not fighting people. But you seem to be under the impression that a Young Republicans Club can't possibly be advancing the cause of fascism. Which is silly. Where else would fascism make in-roads into mainstream politics, if not the GOP?

Oh I almost forgot the part about self defense. It isn't a matter of debate or disagreement. When you go looking for a fight, you aren't defending yourself. Antifa constantly looks to start trouble, they are aggressors

Are they constantly looking for trouble? You say so, but I'm sure they would say otherwise. I ask again why you are right and they wrong. Further, is it necessarily true that people who go looking for a fight are the aggressors? Is it not possible for people to go to a rally or protest, knowing full well that there is a strong possibility of violence breaking out, and still be acting in self-defence when attacked? I will remind you that Andy Ngo was not jumped randomly in the street or attacked in his own home. He went to a rally, and went there with a group he knows are prone to carrying out violent attacks. One could easily say that he was looking for a fight. Maybe you don't think so, but you can no more read his mind and know his true intentions than you can read the minds of any of his unknown assailants.


I believe antifa counts technically as a group of terrorists. It doesn't mean I agree with ted cruz who is trying to silence all anti trump demonstrations and paving the way for government to criminalize any and all anti establishment movements. As for the part about andy ngo being attacked at a rally, it doesn't matter if it's dangerous. Antifa is still wrong for attacking him. Ngo isn't a fascist. He hasn't called for the Us to become an authoritarian country where trump can send whoever he wants to the gulag. I don't agree with him on everything but calling andy ngo a fascist is like saying Nancy pelosi is a communist or calling Bernie Sanders mao zedong
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Postby Fahran » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:21 am

Ifreann wrote:Are they constantly looking for trouble? You say so, but I'm sure they would say otherwise. I ask again why you are right and they wrong. Further, is it necessarily true that people who go looking for a fight are the aggressors? Is it not possible for people to go to a rally or protest, knowing full well that there is a strong possibility of violence breaking out, and still be acting in self-defence when attacked? I will remind you that Andy Ngo was not jumped randomly in the street or attacked in his own home. He went to a rally, and went there with a group he knows are prone to carrying out violent attacks. One could easily say that he was looking for a fight. Maybe you don't think so, but you can no more read his mind and know his true intentions than you can read the minds of any of his unknown assailants.

People who hide their faces and show up armed with bats wrapped in barbed wire to protests are aggressors. It doesn't matter if they call themselves the Proud Boys, Antifa, or the People's Front of Judea. In past conversations on this subject, you have tended to explain away violence by left-wing groups and oppose any measures that would curb violence, even when those measures would proportionately affect all violent groups.
Last edited by Fahran on Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Aureumterra » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:31 am

Duvniask wrote:
Aureumterra wrote:

We don’t seem to agree on that

Disagreeing with both kind of lands you in a contradiction, as violence is sometimes needed to enforce the law (hence why we refer to the state as having a monopoly on violence or the legitimate use of force).

We can certainly argue that the law is not always just. I would say the same for violence, which might sometimes be just.

?

I agree with Fahran
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Postby Duvniask » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:56 am

Aureumterra wrote:
Duvniask wrote:Disagreeing with both kind of lands you in a contradiction, as violence is sometimes needed to enforce the law (hence why we refer to the state as having a monopoly on violence or the legitimate use of force).

We can certainly argue that the law is not always just. I would say the same for violence, which might sometimes be just.

?

I agree with Fahran

You quoted two people. I'm talking about what Ifreann said.
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:58 am

Aureumterra wrote:
Fahran wrote:We seem to be drifting away from the actual subject of the thread. Why are we discussing the ideologies of these organizations and comparing them to determine who is less bad if we all seem to agree to the basic premise that initiating violence is bad and unlawful?

Ifreann wrote:Crimes aren't always bad. Kinda like violence.


We don’t seem to agree on that

You can't really think that all crimes are always bad, can you?


American Pere Housh wrote:What I would like to see is one of these thugs get their ass handed to them when they try to attack a person who has a black belt or its equivalent in any known martial arts.

Sounds like you're a fan of violence.


Aureumterra wrote:
Fahran wrote:Someone forgot the first lesson in daycare. You don't get to hit people just because they're jerks.

Yep. Radicals (and Ifreann apparently) forget that

I'm aware that violence isn't always allowed. I just have a slightly more complex personal morals and ethics than "Not allowed == bad".


Rojava Free State wrote:
Ifreann wrote:As I said, this isn't really on topic. So I won't be pursuing that tangent further.

I know you only brought up and defended Patriots Prayer, not the Proud Boys, I never said otherwise, but I'm not saying that those groups being bad means that anti-fascists are good. However, consider that those groups have not been subject of a resolution being put forward by Republican Senators. You keep saying that antifa are violent thugs who are just as bad as fascists. But the GOP aren't condemning the Proud Boys and Patriots Prayer. Ted Cruz appeared on Louder With Crowder with the founder of the Proud Boys, Gavin McInnes.

So we must ask ourselves, why the different treatment? Could it be, perhaps, that the GOP see political advantage in condemning antifa? Could it be that that label could be applied to any left wing activist? Well then suddenly the entire left are terrorists, or affiliated with terrorists. How advantageous to the right. Left wing protests and rallies could be shut down whether there's unrest or not, for fear of the presence of dangerous terrorists.

I went back and checked and it looks like you edited those links into your post after I read it. Regardless, I don't really care what Wikipedia has to say.

Why not? You do know that fascism isn't exclusively European, don't you? Japan wasn't in the Axis as a liberal democracy.

Well, no, when you're vandalising property you're vandalising property, not fighting people. But you seem to be under the impression that a Young Republicans Club can't possibly be advancing the cause of fascism. Which is silly. Where else would fascism make in-roads into mainstream politics, if not the GOP?


Are they constantly looking for trouble? You say so, but I'm sure they would say otherwise. I ask again why you are right and they wrong. Further, is it necessarily true that people who go looking for a fight are the aggressors? Is it not possible for people to go to a rally or protest, knowing full well that there is a strong possibility of violence breaking out, and still be acting in self-defence when attacked? I will remind you that Andy Ngo was not jumped randomly in the street or attacked in his own home. He went to a rally, and went there with a group he knows are prone to carrying out violent attacks. One could easily say that he was looking for a fight. Maybe you don't think so, but you can no more read his mind and know his true intentions than you can read the minds of any of his unknown assailants.


I believe antifa counts technically as a group of terrorists.

According to what technicality?
It doesn't mean I agree with ted cruz who is trying to silence all anti trump demonstrations and paving the way for government to criminalize any and all anti establishment movements.

Good, then we are in agreement that this resolution is bad and shouldn't pass.
As for the part about andy ngo being attacked at a rally, it doesn't matter if it's dangerous. Antifa is still wrong for attacking him. Ngo isn't a fascist. He hasn't called for the Us to become an authoritarian country where trump can send whoever he wants to the gulag. I don't agree with him on everything but calling andy ngo a fascist is like saying Nancy pelosi is a communist or calling Bernie Sanders mao zedong

Andy Ngo might not directly say "I, Andy Ngo, am a fascist and support fascism and want Trump to be sole dictator of America". But by his actions he assists groups like Patriot Prayer. With his journalism, and I use the term very loosely, he defends them and attacks their enemies. People he identifies as being leftist activists are put on far-right hit lists, and have had strangers show up to their homes in the dead of night, armed, to intimidate them. People's lives and the lives of their families are endangered by Andy Ngo learning their names.


Fahran wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Are they constantly looking for trouble? You say so, but I'm sure they would say otherwise. I ask again why you are right and they wrong. Further, is it necessarily true that people who go looking for a fight are the aggressors? Is it not possible for people to go to a rally or protest, knowing full well that there is a strong possibility of violence breaking out, and still be acting in self-defence when attacked? I will remind you that Andy Ngo was not jumped randomly in the street or attacked in his own home. He went to a rally, and went there with a group he knows are prone to carrying out violent attacks. One could easily say that he was looking for a fight. Maybe you don't think so, but you can no more read his mind and know his true intentions than you can read the minds of any of his unknown assailants.

People who hide their faces and show up armed with bats wrapped in barbed wire to protests are aggressors. It doesn't matter if they call themselves the Proud Boys, Antifa, or the People's Front of Judea.

Exactly what part of that makes a person the aggressor?

Hiding your face? That's only sensible when being identified might put you and your family in danger. The police routinely hide their faces at protests.

Going armed? Being armed doesn't make one the aggressor, that's ridiculous. And again, the police are also rounteinly armed at protests, and often better armed than most other people present.

Going armed with specific weapons? Well come on, if they took the barbed wire off the bat does that change who is the aggressor? That's just silly.

In past conversations on this subject, you have tended to explain away violence by left-wing groups and oppose any measures that would curb violence, even when those measures would proportionately affect all violent groups.

I'm not inclined to trust the police.
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Maydona
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Posts: 105
Founded: Mar 23, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Maydona » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:02 am

I like how folks are writing walls of text in here arguing if antifa are terrorists when antifa has no central command, funding or even members.

literally anyone can put on some black clothes and a mask and call themselves antifa, and they'd be antifa because it's not an organization.
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Duvniask
Senator
 
Posts: 3588
Founded: Aug 30, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Duvniask » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:05 am

Fahran wrote:
Duvniask wrote:Disagreeing with both kind of lands you in a contradiction, as violence is sometimes needed to enforce the law (hence why we refer to the state as having a monopoly on violence or the legitimate use of force).

We can certainly argue that the law is not always just. I would say the same for violence, which might sometimes be just.

Yes, but the sort of violence certain left-wingers are advocating here is difficult to characterize as legitimate, moral, or desirable and goes against the trend of the state having a monopoly on violence in most circumstances.

Why is it difficult to characterize as so?

It's also dangerously close to advocating terrorism

Define "terrorism".

and illegal activity to be honest, especially if we follow such arguments to their logical conclusion.

Again, the law is not always right.


Fahran wrote:
Duvniask wrote:Meanwhile, in reality, society generally tolerates it if you have the law on your side.

1. That's not exactly true. You can still get in trouble for being excessive or even for being disorderly.

Which is moving the goalposts of the argument. The point is, your daycare comparison is not applicable to reality, because "being a jerk" (which we can take to mean a multitude of things) in the world of adults is sometimes against the law. Thus, the "first lesson of daycare" isn't something that necessarily applies.

2. Antifa doesn't have the law on its side in many of these cases.

This goes back to what I've already said, so I refer it to my other response.
Anime America was a mistake.

All your toothbrush are belong to us.
Economic Left/Right: -9.0
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Danish | Political science student | Marxist | Left communist

"When you plant a fertile meme in my mind you literally parasitize my brain, turning it into a vehicle for the meme's propagation" ―Dawkins, The Selfish Gene (1976)

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Fahran
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6690
Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:07 am

Ifreann wrote:Exactly what part of that makes a person the aggressor?

The fact that these people are going to protests with the intention of engaging in violence or bashing the fash.

Ifreann wrote:Hiding your face? That's only sensible when being identified might put you and your family in danger. The police routinely hide their faces at protests.

Yes, and it also conveniently prevents the police or potential victims from identifying you after you've committed a crime. I'm certain Klansmen and alt-righters who cover their faces make the same sorts of arguments. I'm not going to give any of them a pass.

Ifreann wrote:Going armed? Being armed doesn't make one the aggressor, that's ridiculous. And again, the police are also rounteinly armed at protests, and often better armed than most other people present.

Police have a legitimate monopoly on the use of violence and tend to employ crowd dispersal weapons before reaching for guns or batons. Bringing a weapon that's function is to inflict severe bodily harm while not killing someone suggests that you might be engaging in violence deliberately.

Ifreann wrote:Going armed with specific weapons? Well come on, if they took the barbed wire off the bat does that change who is the aggressor? That's just silly.

Yeah, nobody believes you're sincere about this. You're acting like an apologist for thugs.

I'm not inclined to trust the police.

Do you have examples of police abusing their power against members of Antifa by tracking down their families? Because I definitely trust the police to safeguard the public interest more than a group of random communists who have a history of violently assaulting people.
Last edited by Fahran on Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Claw is the LAW!!!

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The Galactic Liberal Democracy
Minister
 
Posts: 2508
Founded: Jun 13, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby The Galactic Liberal Democracy » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:08 am

They want antifa labelled domes? Only sneaky dems would want to hide such symbols of terrorism on buildings!
NOT STORMTROOPERS
Cossack Khanate wrote:This shall forever be known as World War Sh*t: Newark Aggression. Now if I see one more troop deployed, I will call on the force of all the Hindu gods to reverse time and wipe your race of the face of the planet. Cease.

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Fahran
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6690
Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:14 am

Duvniask wrote:Why is it difficult to characterize as so?

Do you have the right to hurt someone because they say something? Yes or no?

Duvniask wrote:Define "terrorism".

The use of violence or the fear of violence by a non-state actor to achieve some political, economic, social, or religious end.

Duvniask wrote:Again, the law is not always right.

In this case, the law is right. Unless the answer to the first question is that we can as individuals hurt people for saying things depending on what is said. But that argument rationalizes the Proud Boys just as easily, and society would be much more agreeable if violent thugs were in prison instead of given legitimacy.

Duvniask wrote:Which is moving the goalposts of the argument. The point is, your daycare comparison is not applicable to reality, because "being a jerk" (which we can take to mean a multitude of things) in the world of adults is sometimes against the law. Thus, the "first lesson of daycare" isn't something that necessarily applies.

Saying things is not against the law in this context. You're allowed to advocate for racism, you're allowed to advocate for killing the rich, and you're allowed to advocate for all manner of horrible things in a liberal society. You're not allowed, of course, to do it on this site. The daycare argument is spot on. You and Iffy seem to believe that it's okay to hit people if they say the wrong thing. My question for y'all then is what gives you the right to hit people?

Duvniask wrote:This goes back to what I've already said, so I refer it to my other response.

Then tell me. Where and how is the law wrong here? When is it okay to hit or hurt someone for something they said?
The Claw is the LAW!!!

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Strahcoin
Envoy
 
Posts: 268
Founded: Jun 01, 2019
Corporate Bordello

Postby Strahcoin » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:34 am

East Ustya wrote:What about the far right movements like the KKK and NSM?

They're alt-right, not right-wing. If they used unlawful violence/intimidation for political gains (which I know the KKK has), then they should also be classified as terrorists.

Fun fact: The KKK was founded by the Democrats.

Nakena wrote:
Aureumterra wrote:Just a curious question, why did you censor the word FOX in Fox News?


I am wondering the same. Its the opposite from fair and balanced.

While Fox News does lean center-right, its news are more trustworthy than - oh, let's say - that of CNN. Fox News also draws a distinction between news and opinion.
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