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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:21 pm
by Kubra
Strahcoin wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
I'd like to give you a casual reminder that the Nazis were so far from being socialists that the word "privatization" was literally created to describe Hitlerian economic policy in the mid 1930's lol.

That seems to contradict quotes where Hitler supported socialism.
“We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions”

It does seem strange that the Nazis would endorse privatization when their platform stated they demanded "the nationalization of all trusts" and the creation of an "unconditional authority by the political central parliament of the whole State and all its organizations". Who else was in the government at that time?
Fun fact: Hitler never said that.
It is true that a prominent nazi said that, and it really is an uncomfortable fact that fascism did have its origins more on the left wing side than the right. However, it's disingenuous to continue that line of reasoning for the party after the 1934 purge.
And the mass selling of state assets during the nazi years is well established fact, bruv.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:29 pm
by Kubra
Wallenburg wrote:
Totally Not OEP wrote:
Authoritarian Government =/= Fascism

It's the same senselessness in use that has made the term lose its effect in political discourse.

We aren't talking about all authoritarianism here. We're talking about culturally reactionary far right ethnostates. That's what a fascist state is.
Yeah and nah. Mussolini's italy wasn't really an ethnostate, and the jewish zionist fascists (this was actually a thing, now that was some crazy shit) advocated equal rights for Palestinians. I mean that's not to say a lot of parties were in it for the ethnostate business, but the 20th century was weird place with weird people.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:35 pm
by The Greater Ohio Valley
Totally Not OEP wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:

I mean, you guys say that, but how else is a white ethnostate gonna be achieved without using dictatorial totalitarian or authoritarian power to cleanse the nation of nonehites? Pizza parties? Ice cream socials? Moving all WN’s to an uninhabited island somewhere? You guys might see different but I honestly can’t. Ethnostates (to me) require as much governmental and state power as possible to make a reality since you can’t remove the “””undesirables””” any other way.


Authoritarian Government =/= Fascism

It's the same senselessness in use that has made the term lose its effect in political discourse.

You’re right, however, fascism is authoritarian by nature. It’s true that not all authoritarians are fascist but many fascists are authoritarian since the fascist ideology is 100% authoritarian.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:49 pm
by Hirota
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Gormwood wrote:No chance at all Trump supporters in government will hand out Antifa labels like Oprah.

Wouldn't that be ironic?
Given the trend some people have of labelling anyone they disagree with anything like: "Facist" or "Nazi" or a few others ... yeah there is some irony in certain people suddenly complaining about the potential for abuse of words to suppress people.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:52 pm
by The Black Forrest
Hirota wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Wouldn't that be ironic?
Given the trend some people have of labelling anyone they disagree with anything like: "Facist" or "Nazi" or a few others ... yeah there is some irony in certain people suddenly complaining about the potential for abuse of words to suppress people.


They probably learned that from the Cons after all the years of comments like libtard and the recent snowflake and safe zone comments.....

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:54 pm
by Wallenburg
Kubra wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:We aren't talking about all authoritarianism here. We're talking about culturally reactionary far right ethnostates. That's what a fascist state is.
Yeah and nah. Mussolini's italy wasn't really an ethnostate, and the jewish zionist fascists (this was actually a thing, now that was some crazy shit) advocated equal rights for Palestinians. I mean that's not to say a lot of parties were in it for the ethnostate business, but the 20th century was weird place with weird people.

Sauce?

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:08 pm
by Hirota
The Black Forrest wrote:
Hirota wrote:Given the trend some people have of labelling anyone they disagree with anything like: "Facist" or "Nazi" or a few others ... yeah there is some irony in certain people suddenly complaining about the potential for abuse of words to suppress people.


They probably learned that from the Cons after all the years of comments like libtard and the recent snowflake and safe zone comments.....
It's probably a chicken and egg scenario. Regardless of "who started it" it's a continuation of the undermining of legitimate discourse.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:17 am
by Vassenor
Iridencia wrote:I think the part of this I'm most tired of is the constant appeals to "just as bad." Every defense of Antifa and those like them comes back to it, that they're not as bad as fascists and therefore squeaky clean good guys.

You do not need to be "just as bad" as someone else to still be bad. Yes, fascists are much, much, much, much worse than Antifa, objectively. No, that does not mean Antifa is good. Just because smashing someone's mail box isn't as bad as setting their entire house on fire it doesn't justify smashing mail boxes. "Just as" and "too" are not the same damn thing.

The argument about whether or not calculated violence works in circumstances like these is more complex and a worthy debate to have, but I'm sick of this stupid-ass strawman argument. "NOT AS BAD NOT AS BAD NOT AS BAD NOT AS-" It doesn't fucking matter. Our disapproval is not and should not be reserved exclusively for the worst of the worst.


I don't know about anyone else but I'm more concerned about the government trying to give themselves carte blanche to round up protesters under the guise of "counter terrorist actions".

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:13 am
by Telconi
Vassenor wrote:
Iridencia wrote:I think the part of this I'm most tired of is the constant appeals to "just as bad." Every defense of Antifa and those like them comes back to it, that they're not as bad as fascists and therefore squeaky clean good guys.

You do not need to be "just as bad" as someone else to still be bad. Yes, fascists are much, much, much, much worse than Antifa, objectively. No, that does not mean Antifa is good. Just because smashing someone's mail box isn't as bad as setting their entire house on fire it doesn't justify smashing mail boxes. "Just as" and "too" are not the same damn thing.

The argument about whether or not calculated violence works in circumstances like these is more complex and a worthy debate to have, but I'm sick of this stupid-ass strawman argument. "NOT AS BAD NOT AS BAD NOT AS BAD NOT AS-" It doesn't fucking matter. Our disapproval is not and should not be reserved exclusively for the worst of the worst.


I don't know about anyone else but I'm more concerned about the government trying to give themselves carte blanche to round up protesters under the guise of "counter terrorist actions".


Today I learned non-binding Senate resolutions give government powers to black bag protesters...

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:20 am
by Kubra
Wallenburg wrote:
Kubra wrote: Yeah and nah. Mussolini's italy wasn't really an ethnostate, and the jewish zionist fascists (this was actually a thing, now that was some crazy shit) advocated equal rights for Palestinians. I mean that's not to say a lot of parties were in it for the ethnostate business, but the 20th century was weird place with weird people.

Sauce?
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.pr ... -1.5468898
I mean, coming from Haaretz, I mean you know what's up.
It's not all fascistic sunshine and roses of course, the topic of forced removal of palestinian arabs did come up and some figures were definitely for it, but the big political concern for the fascists was great britain and the soviets. In their mind, I suppose they saw the arabs as natural allies.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:22 am
by Nakena
Kubra wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:Sauce?
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.pr ... -1.5468898
I mean, coming from Haaretz, I mean you know what's up.


How do you can possibly know the content of the article without being a subscirber to the newspaper given that it is premium? :p

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:24 am
by Kubra
Nakena wrote:
Kubra wrote: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.pr ... -1.5468898
I mean, coming from Haaretz, I mean you know what's up.


How do you can possibly know the content of the article without being a subscirber to the newspaper given that it is premium? :p
I ain't getting a prompt. Doesn't Haaretz use an article limit or unblock certain topics/old articles?

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:30 am
by Nakena
Kubra wrote:
Nakena wrote:
How do you can possibly know the content of the article without being a subscirber to the newspaper given that it is premium? :p
I ain't getting a prompt. Doesn't Haaretz use an article limit or unblock certain topics/old articles?


After opening it in google cache it works oddly enough.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:34 am
by Kubra
Nakena wrote:
Kubra wrote: I ain't getting a prompt. Doesn't Haaretz use an article limit or unblock certain topics/old articles?


After opening it in google cache it works oddly enough.
I'm gonna guess article limit. Honestly I never understand why some Haaretz articles work and some don't, they never reveal their seekrit algorithm.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:12 am
by Hirota
Nakena wrote:
Kubra wrote: I ain't getting a prompt. Doesn't Haaretz use an article limit or unblock certain topics/old articles?


After opening it in google cache it works oddly enough.

Here is the link I used to get around it.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:28 am
by Ifreann
Wallenburg wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
Antifa isn't as organized as the alt right and definitely isn't as organized as ICE or CBP. Ideologically antifa and the alt right are morally equal but in practice the right wing extremists are worse

Being against fascism and being fascist are morally equal. Super cool my friend, very solid argument.

To quote an eminent 21st Century philosopher:
the wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: "theres actually zero difference between good & bad things. you imbecile. you fucking moron"

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:31 am
by Rojava Free State
Wallenburg wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
Antifa isn't as organized as the alt right and definitely isn't as organized as ICE or CBP. Ideologically antifa and the alt right are morally equal but in practice the right wing extremists are worse

Being against fascism and being fascist are morally equal. Super cool my friend, very solid argument.


Being a communist (as most antifas are, and I don't mean random antofascists, I mean the group known as antifa, or anti fascist action) and being a fascist are definitely equal. Saying antifa is just "being against fascism" is like saying rock against communism was just punk rockers not liking communists. Not only are they communists but they're also criminal thugs that destroy people's businesses, attack news reporters and set fires in our city streets.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:37 am
by Ifreann
Rojava Free State wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:Being against fascism and being fascist are morally equal. Super cool my friend, very solid argument.


Being a communist (as most antifas are, and I don't mean random antofascists, I mean the group known as antifa, or anti fascist action)

Antifa is a thing people do, not an organisation they join.
and being a fascist are definitely equal.

Bollocks.
Saying antifa is just "being against fascism" is-

Basically accurate.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:44 am
by Rojava Free State
Ifreann wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
Being a communist (as most antifas are, and I don't mean random antofascists, I mean the group known as antifa, or anti fascist action)

Antifa is a thing people do, not an organisation they join.
and being a fascist are definitely equal.

Bollocks.
Saying antifa is just "being against fascism" is-

Basically accurate.


Antifa as I'm referring to them is the group of black clad mask wearing baseball wielding anarchists and communists #1. #2 being communist and fascist are equal. Communism is responsible for the whole sale slaughter of millions worldwide and has spawned some of the worst regimes in mankind's history. #3 once again, you know exactly what I'm referring to and yet you keep up with the fallacy of "being antifa just means being antifascist, I don't know what you're talking about."

This is antifascism: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-fascism

This is antifa: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:48 am
by Drongonia
Good. They are domestic terrorists and this is long overdue. It isn't even a left v right issue at this point, it's violence v peace.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:48 am
by Ifreann
Rojava Free State wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Antifa is a thing people do, not an organisation they join.

Bollocks.

Basically accurate.


Antifa as I'm referring to them is the group of black clad mask wearing baseball wielding anarchists and communists #1.

And you're wrong. Congratulations.
#2 being communist and fascist are equal. Communism is responsible for the whole sale slaughter of millions worldwide and has spawned some of the worst regimes in mankind's history.

Communism and fascism aren't equal, don't be ridiculous.
#3 once again, you know exactly what I'm referring to and yet you keep up with the fallacy of "being antifa just means being antifascist, I don't know what you're talking about."

I know what you're saying, but what you're saying is wrong, and moreover is being wrong in a harmful and dangerous way so I'm not going to indulge it.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:50 am
by Vassenor
Drongonia wrote:Good. They are domestic terrorists and this is long overdue. It isn't even a left v right issue at this point, it's violence v peace.


There you have it. Throwing a milkshake at someone is worse terrorism than shooting up a church. :roll:

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:52 am
by Ifreann
Drongonia wrote:Good. They are domestic terrorists and this is long overdue. It isn't even a left v right issue at this point, it's violence v peace.

Do you actually think that violence is always wrong?

If yes, maybe have a think about why the police carry weapons.

If no, then you haven't actually provided any criticism of the people you are calling domestic terrorists.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:52 am
by Jack Thomas Lang
Ifreann wrote:Communism and fascism aren't equal, don't be ridiculous.

In terms of pure ideology, perhaps not. Practically, though, without a doubt. Communist (or Socialist if you're being picky) regimes have caused untold suffering and misery and are almost always authoritarian dictatorships.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:54 am
by Rojava Free State
Ifreann wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
Antifa as I'm referring to them is the group of black clad mask wearing baseball wielding anarchists and communists #1.

And you're wrong. Congratulations.
#2 being communist and fascist are equal. Communism is responsible for the whole sale slaughter of millions worldwide and has spawned some of the worst regimes in mankind's history.

Communism and fascism aren't equal, don't be ridiculous.
#3 once again, you know exactly what I'm referring to and yet you keep up with the fallacy of "being antifa just means being antifascist, I don't know what you're talking about."

I know what you're saying, but what you're saying is wrong, and moreover is being wrong in a harmful and dangerous way so I'm not going to indulge it.


#1 you didn't even say why it's wrong. Nice argument
#2. 100 million people killed by communism worldwide and counting. Sounds pretty equal to me man
#3. And once again, you can't even argue why it's wrong. Miss me with your sarcasm if you won't even attempt to make your case as to why these thugs aren't as bad as the fascists they claim to fight against (half of which are actually random republicans, patriots prayer and news reporters).