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Two Senators want Antifa labled domestic terrorists

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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:47 am

Eastkilty wrote:
Nakena wrote:I think most people wouldn have a problem with Antifa if they would, like they used to do, focus on actual racist shitheads like the KKK and friends.



Most people have a problem with Antifa because of how they use violence against those they disagree with, not because they don't target 'actual racist shitheads'.

While the KKK is deplorable, you still can't go beat up a Klansman for being a Klansman. That's not right, to attack people because of an opinion. If they were to try to attack you, there is nothing wrong with defending yourself. But walking up to a Klansman, or any racist, and then beating them up, when they aren't causing any physical harm to anyone, and are just trying to get on with life, is wrong.


So, it is a matter of using violence, not whom they target.


I am against beating people up. Its not a good behaviour.
Last edited by Nakena on Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Eastkilty
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Postby Eastkilty » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:49 am

Nakena wrote:
Eastkilty wrote:

Most people have a problem with Antifa because of how they use violence against those they disagree with, not because they don't target 'actual racist shitheads'.

While the KKK is deplorable, you still can't go beat up a Klansman for being a Klansman. That's not right, to attack people because of an opinion. If they were to try to attack you, there is nothing wrong with defending yourself. But walking up to a Klansman, or any racist, and then beating them up, when they aren't causing any physical harm to anyone, and are just trying to get on with life, is wrong.


So, it is a matter of using violence, not whom they target.


I am against beating people up. Its not a good behaviour.


Glad we agree. But, my point just meant people still would dislike Antifa, even if they did target hardline, real racists like the KKK, because they beat people up, and use violence in un-justifiable situations.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:51 am

Eastkilty wrote:I updated my original post to tell you why the citations were important.

I'm not going to constantly go back to check old posts to see if they're edited, no one is.
I said, that you ignored Antifa's violence in your 1st post, and the fact the senators want to crush this violence, not the group. So, no, not 'crushing dissent'. I was pointing out the reasons why they wanted to crush them, which is because of violence against those they disagree with. I don't care that you don't care, they are relevant points to combat your 1st post.

And as I said, this resolution serves no useful law enforcement purpose.

It seemed like you were.
Also, citations that prove they want to crackdown on anti-Trump protests via Antifa?
It doesn't seem to me like they are.
Many anti-Trump demonstrations are quite majorly headed by Antifa, so there might be generalisation on the GOP's part. But I don't think they want to crush anti-Trump protests, considering the fact I don't hear police or government forces stopping anti-Trump protests unless they get violent. Yes, the GOP won't like anti-Trump demonstrations, but until the day they label a peaceful anti-Trump protest as terroristic, I still will believe that they don't want to do the things you accuse them of doing.

Have a read about the protests on Trump's inauguration day. Hundreds of people were arrested. None were convicted. Because the grounds for their arrest was stupid shit like "was at a protest" and "was wearing black".

Also, this thing with the purple text is obnoxious. Just use the quote tags.
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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:55 am

Eastkilty wrote:
Nakena wrote:
I am against beating people up. Its not a good behaviour.


Glad we agree. But, my point just meant people still would dislike Antifa, even if they did target hardline, real racists like the KKK, because they beat people up, and use violence in un-justifiable situations.


Would they ? Usually people cheer if heros beat up bad guys. They even pay good money to see movies about that.
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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:59 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
Eastkilty wrote:
Glad we agree. But, my point just meant people still would dislike Antifa, even if they did target hardline, real racists like the KKK, because they beat people up, and use violence in un-justifiable situations.


Would they ? Usually people cheer if heros beat up bad guys. They even pay good money to see movies about that.


Well we can re-introduce the Colosseum and have some real pit fights. What could possibly go wrong?
Last edited by Nakena on Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Eastkilty
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Postby Eastkilty » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:01 am

I updated my original post to tell you why the citations were important.

I'm not going to constantly go back to check old posts to see if they're edited, no one is.


Okay, wow, good for you. But it still helped further boost my argument. Besides, I knew you weren't going to check, which is why I gave that mini-overview.

And as I said, this resolution serves no useful law enforcement purpose.
So, protecting citizens from being viciously attacked just on the basis of having an opinion (like that old man, or Ngo, who had his serious brain injuries), instead of letting antifascists go open season on them, isn't law enforcement?

Have a read about the protests on Trump's inauguration day. Hundreds of people were arrested. None were convicted. Because the grounds for their arrest was stupid shit like "was at a protest" and "was wearing black".

Dozens of protesters — some self-described "anarchists" dressed in black and wearing masks — damaged businesses at 10:30 a.m. ET just before Trump's swearing-in ceremony got underway, Metropolitan police said.
Authorities arrested 95 people — some charged with rioting — in the Franklin Park area and acting Police Chief Peter Newsham said there was "significant damage" to at least four businesses. Two police officers suffered minor injuries as protesters flung bricks, trash cans and other objects, and ignited small fires.

"I saw one guy, he was like pushing a cop, kind of antagonizing him, and the cop with the riot shield was banging him back," Johnny Silvercloud, a freelance journalist who was photographing protesters, told NBC News.

One man was accidentally knocked over by protesters, a law enforcement officer told NBC News. He was bleeding from the back of his skull as paramedics helped him onto a stretcher.

They were arrested for violence, and violence towards members of police. They were also close to blocking the inauguration parade route.
So, I wouldn't say without proper basis.

And, my precious citation: https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/inaug ... -d-n709321

Also, this thing with the purple text is obnoxious. Just use the quote tags.
I'm not going to stop. It's easier, and makes uploading faster and more convient. And less frustrating for me when there are technical issues. Sorry if it annoys you. Just ignore it.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:03 am

Eastkilty wrote:Just ignore it.

You got it.
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Eastkilty
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Postby Eastkilty » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:03 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
Eastkilty wrote:
Glad we agree. But, my point just meant people still would dislike Antifa, even if they did target hardline, real racists like the KKK, because they beat people up, and use violence in un-justifiable situations.


Would they ? Usually people cheer if heros beat up bad guys. They even pay good money to see movies about that.


Beating up someone on the basis of having an opinion (even if a degenerate, scary opinion) is never right. If they were causing violence, you could try to stop that person, but it is better to not ignite the situation further with violence, unless absolutely needed.

You are acting like the bad guy for beating up someone who wasn't causing harm, because they have opposing views, or are part of an organisation like the KKK.
Last edited by Eastkilty on Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Eastkilty
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Postby Eastkilty » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:05 am

Ifreann wrote:
Eastkilty wrote:Just ignore it.

You got it.


You got it dude.

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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:05 am

Eastkilty wrote:Also, this thing with the purple text is obnoxious. Just use the quote tags.
I'm not going to stop. It's easier, and makes uploading faster and more convient. And less frustrating for me when there are technical issues. Sorry if it annoys you. Just ignore it.


Use the bold text. Its much better. Are the buttons non reactive to you? Might want to allow scripts on NS.
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Eastkilty
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Postby Eastkilty » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:07 am

Nakena wrote:
Eastkilty wrote:Also, this thing with the purple text is obnoxious. Just use the quote tags.
I'm not going to stop. It's easier, and makes uploading faster and more convient. And less frustrating for me when there are technical issues. Sorry if it annoys you. Just ignore it.


Use the bold text. Its much better. Are the buttons non reactive to you? Might want to allow scripts on NS.



Bold text? I'll try, thanks.


The buttons will work at times, but sometimes it won't quote certain things, and I waste time trying to fix it, instead of getting my points across.


I can do quoting when it is one thing to quote, but when I have to quote individual sentences, it's hard.
Last edited by Eastkilty on Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Gormwood
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Postby Gormwood » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:36 am

Given that there is no centralized, unifying Antifa organization in charge of all the cells this legislation is nothing more than invoking Commie Mutant Traitor spook stories to rile up the base and have a bukkakke party over how Antifa are easily beaten effeminate soyboys and brutal murderous supersoldiers at the same time.
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Postby Vassenor » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:38 am

Gormwood wrote:Given that there is no centralized, unifying Antifa organization in charge of all the cells this legislation is nothing more than invoking Commie Mutant Traitor spook stories to rile up the base and have a bukkakke party over how Antifa are easily beaten effeminate soyboys and brutal murderous supersoldiers at the same time.


And use "they're totally Antifa" as justification for rounding up people who protest against Trump using whatever force they want because terrorists.
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Israeli Commonwealth
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Postby Israeli Commonwealth » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:42 am

Eastkilty wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:
Would they ? Usually people cheer if heros beat up bad guys. They even pay good money to see movies about that.


Beating up someone on the basis of having an opinion (even if a degenerate, scary opinion) is never right. If they were causing violence, you could try to stop that person, but it is better to not ignite the situation further with violence, unless absolutely needed.

You are acting like the bad guy for beating up someone who wasn't causing harm, because they have opposing views, or are part of an organisation like the KKK.
You are a good comprimise m8
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Gormwood
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Postby Gormwood » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:44 am

Vassenor wrote:
Gormwood wrote:Given that there is no centralized, unifying Antifa organization in charge of all the cells this legislation is nothing more than invoking Commie Mutant Traitor spook stories to rile up the base and have a bukkakke party over how Antifa are easily beaten effeminate soyboys and brutal murderous supersoldiers at the same time.


And use "they're totally Antifa" as justification for rounding up people who protest against Trump using whatever force they want because terrorists.

Everyone remembers how Assad silenced all dissent successfully by having demonstrators shot.
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Postby Thermodolia » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:44 am

Israeli Commonwealth wrote:
Highever wrote:Another good point is how the hell can you be against Antifa for political violence and attacking people they disagree with when you hypocritically state that you are for free speech and yet will react with violence against anyone who speaks out against America. There is no consistency to be had.

Perhaps I was not clear. You may say whatever you want. But if you blatantly hate the United States you should not be a citizen of her.

Ya no.
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Postby Thermodolia » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:47 am

Gormwood wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
And use "they're totally Antifa" as justification for rounding up people who protest against Trump using whatever force they want because terrorists.

Everyone remembers how Assad silenced all dissent successfully by having demonstrators shot.

Ya that’s why he didn’t end up with a civil war... oh wait

Also Trump isn’t gonna go around ordering anti-trump protesters shot. That’s just not going to happen
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Postby Gormwood » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:06 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Gormwood wrote:Everyone remembers how Assad silenced all dissent successfully by having demonstrators shot.

Ya that’s why he didn’t end up with a civil war... oh wait

Also Trump isn’t gonna go around ordering anti-trump protesters shot. That’s just not going to happen

If Antifa is officially classified as a terrorist organization, every future Antifa protest is an Uncle Jimbo hunting trip waiting to happen. Shooting terrorists is just counterterrorism after all, and just need a triggerhappy copper to yell "LOOK OUT IT'S COMING RIGHT FOR US!!" at some sign wavers before the BLAM BLAM BLAM starts.
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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:07 am

Gormwood wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Ya that’s why he didn’t end up with a civil war... oh wait

Also Trump isn’t gonna go around ordering anti-trump protesters shot. That’s just not going to happen

If Antifa is officially classified as a terrorist organization, every future Antifa protest is an Uncle Jimbo hunting trip waiting to happen. Shooting terrorists is just counterterrorism after all, and just need a triggerhappy copper to yell "LOOK OUT IT'S COMING RIGHT FOR US!!" at some sign wavers before the BLAM BLAM BLAM starts.


And who is doing that?
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Postby The Two Jerseys » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:08 am

Nakena wrote:
Gormwood wrote:If Antifa is officially classified as a terrorist organization, every future Antifa protest is an Uncle Jimbo hunting trip waiting to happen. Shooting terrorists is just counterterrorism after all, and just need a triggerhappy copper to yell "LOOK OUT IT'S COMING RIGHT FOR US!!" at some sign wavers before the BLAM BLAM BLAM starts.


And who is doing that?

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Postby The Alma Mater » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:12 am

Thermodolia wrote:Also Trump isn’t gonna go around ordering anti-trump protesters shot. That’s just not going to happen


Well, if they are black or female he might...
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Postby Thermodolia » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:14 am

Gormwood wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Ya that’s why he didn’t end up with a civil war... oh wait

Also Trump isn’t gonna go around ordering anti-trump protesters shot. That’s just not going to happen

If Antifa is officially classified as a terrorist organization, every future Antifa protest is an Uncle Jimbo hunting trip waiting to happen. Shooting terrorists is just counterterrorism after all, and just need a triggerhappy copper to yell "LOOK OUT IT'S COMING RIGHT FOR US!!" at some sign wavers before the BLAM BLAM BLAM starts.

You sure have some interesting fantasies Gauth. Also straw is highly flammable so I’d be careful with all that straw you got piled there
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:18 am

Nakena wrote:
Gormwood wrote:If Antifa is officially classified as a terrorist organization, every future Antifa protest is an Uncle Jimbo hunting trip waiting to happen. Shooting terrorists is just counterterrorism after all, and just need a triggerhappy copper to yell "LOOK OUT IT'S COMING RIGHT FOR US!!" at some sign wavers before the BLAM BLAM BLAM starts.


And who is doing that?

"I think this will happen in the future"
"Who is doing that?"

You know what the future is, yeah? You get that it hasn't happened yet?
Last edited by Ifreann on Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Hirota » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:28 am

Ifreann wrote:
Nakena wrote:
And who is doing that?

"I think this will happen in the future"
"Who is doing that?"

You know what the future is, yeah? You get that it hasn't happened yet?
Out of interest, has there been particularly widespread evidence of private individuals shooting those suspected of being members of other terrorist organisations? That would give a reasonable barometer for how likely this scenario would be, at least as a starting point.

I've not participated in this thread, but I've been reading it. I'm pretty convinced by the arguments that antifa is a faceless mob rather than an organised group, so I disagree with the desires of these two senators. I'm reluctant to use too broad a brush to describe all of antifa as terrorists. It devalues the meaning of the word.

I do think there are certain groups who call themselves antifa who are organised, and provided there is evidence of that particular group being violent...well, that would be a different matter. But they should be evaluated on a case by case basis.
Last edited by Hirota on Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Eastkilty » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:29 am

Israeli Commonwealth wrote:
Eastkilty wrote:
Beating up someone on the basis of having an opinion (even if a degenerate, scary opinion) is never right. If they were causing violence, you could try to stop that person, but it is better to not ignite the situation further with violence, unless absolutely needed.

You are acting like the bad guy for beating up someone who wasn't causing harm, because they have opposing views, or are part of an organisation like the KKK.
You are a good comprimise m8


Uh, thanks?

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