America Cuts Turkey From The NATO F-35 Deal

[East Ustya]

How so?

Sorry but i am not a jet fighter expert.

If i was I would not be sitting here. LOL

Its stealth features are primarily based on the frontal plane. Like a lot of 4.5th generation aircraft with stealth features.

The F-22 and F-35 are much better at all-planes stealth.

So the Russian plane is only stealth when the enemy radar faces the front?

[Fartsniffage]

Its stealth features are primarily based on the frontal plane. Like a lot of 4.5th generation aircraft with stealth features.

The F-22 and F-35 are much better at all-planes stealth.

So the Russian plane is only stealth when the enemy radar faces the front?

Basically, yes.

It's better than older aircraft but still pretty easily trackable with modern radar systems in comparison to the best stealth aircraft.

[Novus America]

Although the US has been playing this a bit smart, the whole program is very compartmentalized. So even if you make a few components, only the US knows the whole of how everything fits together. So making a few components does not give a away too much. It is like trying to figure out what a jigsaw puzzle shows with just a few pieces.

Unfortunately the PRC has been hitting the program hard with spying, the PRC has already collected quite a few pieces. It should be noted the PRC is now far ahead of the Russians in stealth tech, despite stating out way behind. Only stealing from the US can explain that.

Turkey was meant to be a regional repair hub. I'm pretty sure they have people who know how the whole thing goes together.

But they never actually got one to work on.
While they were supposed to be, that never went into effect.
So it is not clear how much they learned. And they still would not know how all parts are made and how the software works (one thing buyers are annoyed about is we do not allow full access to the coding).

[Novus America]

Its stealth features are primarily based on the frontal plane. Like a lot of 4.5th generation aircraft with stealth features.

The F-22 and F-35 are much better at all-planes stealth.

So the Russian plane is only stealth when the enemy radar faces the front?

Basically, although it is important to note stealth does not mean 100% invisible, just harder to spot. You are just reducing the radar return. Even from the from the SU-57 has a massive return relative to the F-35 although smaller than other Russian fighters.

Also one reason why the F-35 is expensive is everything must fit perfectly.

Any crack, any poorly fitting part and the radar return greatly increases.

The fit and finish on the current SU-57s is visibly bad, which raises a lot of questions.

[Fartsniffage]

Turkey was meant to be a regional repair hub. I'm pretty sure they have people who know how the whole thing goes together.

But they never actually got one to work on.
While they were supposed to be, that never went into effect.
So it is not clear how much they learned. And they still would not know how all parts are made and how the software works (one thing buyers are annoyed about is we do not allow full access to the coding).

They wouldn't have needed to. There are a bunch of Turks in the US who have been working on the project. Part of removing Turkey from the program is kicking them all out of the US.

[Fartsniffage]

So the Russian plane is only stealth when the enemy radar faces the front?

Basically, although it is important to note stealth does not mean 100% invisible, just harder to spot. You are just reducing the radar return. Even from the from the SU-57 has a massive return relative to the F-35 although smaller than other Russian fighters.

Although I do like that the Type-45 destroyer can still track them, and F-22s. The disclosed radar ability is a golf ball at 200 miles. So it's much better than that'

[The New California Republic]

So the Russian plane is only stealth when the enemy radar faces the front?

Basically, although it is important to note stealth does not mean 100% invisible, just harder to spot. You are just reducing the radar return. Even from the from the SU-57 has a massive return relative to the F-35 although smaller than other Russian fighters.

And the new VHF radars that the Russians are bringing into service in a bistatic configuration will be a good counter to the F-35.

[Novus America]

Basically, although it is important to note stealth does not mean 100% invisible, just harder to spot. You are just reducing the radar return. Even from the from the SU-57 has a massive return relative to the F-35 although smaller than other Russian fighters.

Although I do like that the Type-45 destroyer can still track them, and F-22s. The disclosed radar ability is a golf ball at 200 miles. So it's much better than that'

Supposedly SPY can too. Allegedly SPY can track individual raindrops several hundred miles away. But of course we have F-35s to work with and train against.

[Novus America]

But they never actually got one to work on.
While they were supposed to be, that never went into effect.
So it is not clear how much they learned. And they still would not know how all parts are made and how the software works (one thing buyers are annoyed about is we do not allow full access to the coding).

They wouldn't have needed to. There are a bunch of Turks in the US who have been working on the project. Part of removing Turkey from the program is kicking them all out of the US.

Well true, but I do not know how much access they had either. Also they have been suspended from going near it for a while now.

It is all heavily compartmentalized so that no one person can see the whole puzzle, just their pieces, at least in theory.

I do not know how badly compromised it has been by the Turks. Certainly the PRC stole a lot of data too. But it is not clear how much.

[East Ustya]

So the Russian plane is only stealth when the enemy radar faces the front?

Basically, yes.

It's better than older aircraft but still pretty easily trackable with modern radar systems in comparison to the best stealth aircraft.

Ah, right, thanks.

I am using that for my war story.

Ironically my NS nation is looking for new jets atm.

[Fartsniffage]

Although I do like that the Type-45 destroyer can still track them, and F-22s. The disclosed radar ability is a golf ball at 200 miles. So it's much better than that'

Supposedly SPY can too. Allegedly SPY can track individual raindrops several hundred miles away. But of course we have F-35s to work with and train against.

Those radars are one of the reasons I love AEGIS and Type-45 ships. Their radar is a weapon in its own right. You can shoot down a plane with it.

[Novus America]

Basically, although it is important to note stealth does not mean 100% invisible, just harder to spot. You are just reducing the radar return. Even from the from the SU-57 has a massive return relative to the F-35 although smaller than other Russian fighters.

And the new VHF radars that the Russians are bringing into service in a bistatic configuration will be a good counter to the F-35.

They might be. The Russians have been doing their best to develop better radars, but how effective they have been is unclear.

As they failed to develop a good stealth plane of their own, focusing on radars seems to be their strategy now.

[The New California Republic]

And the new VHF radars that the Russians are bringing into service in a bistatic configuration will be a good counter to the F-35.

They might be. The Russians have been doing their best to develop better radars, but how effective they have been is unclear.

There are claimed detection ranges for an "F-117" for most of the newer Russian and Belarusian radars, but again it's based on simulations obviously, and Russian performance estimates are usually too generous.

As they failed to develop a good stealth plane of their own, focusing on radars seems to be their strategy now.

Well they have been developing radars to counter stealth for the past 30-odd years, and they weren't aware until relatively late that they had actually possessed a "counter-stealth" radar since the 1960s, i.e. Spoon Rest.

[Fartsniffage]

They might be. The Russians have been doing their best to develop better radars, but how effective they have been is unclear.

There are claimed detection ranges for an "F-117" for most of the newer Russian and Belarusian radars, but again it's based on simulations obviously, and Russian performance estimates are usually too generous.

As they failed to develop a good stealth plane of their own, focusing on radars seems to be their strategy now.

Well they have been developing radars to counter stealth for the past 30-odd years, and they weren't aware until relatively late that they had actually possessed a "counter-stealth" radar since the 1960s, i.e. Spoon Rest.

Out of curiosity, why do you have such an interest in radar systems?

[Novus America]

Supposedly SPY can too. Allegedly SPY can track individual raindrops several hundred miles away. But of course we have F-35s to work with and train against.

Those radars are one of the reasons I love AEGIS and Type-45 ships. Their radar is a weapon in its own right. You can shoot down a plane with it.

When it is turned on you cannot get near the array. Back when I was on a ship I heard all sorts of stories. Not sure if true but supposedly birds dropping dead, and that you could make light bulb light up or popcorn pop just but hanging it near the array. Maybe BS sea stories, but at very least the energy is so much it can be used as a microwave weapon of sorts, just by blasting out extremely powerful and focused radiation.

[Kernen]

Those radars are one of the reasons I love AEGIS and Type-45 ships. Their radar is a weapon in its own right. You can shoot down a plane with it.

When it is turned on you cannot get near the array. Back when I was on a ship I heard all sorts of stories. Not sure if true but supposedly birds dropping dead, and that you could make light bulb light up or popcorn pop just but hanging it near the array. Maybe BS sea stories, but at very least the energy is so much it can be used as a microwave weapon of sorts, just by blasting out extremely powerful and focused radiation.

The DUKE anti-IED tools do that. Soldiers were warned to never turn them on around locals or livestock, because it microwaves them.

Obviously, that was closely obeyed.

[Kernen]

There are claimed detection ranges for an "F-117" for most of the newer Russian and Belarusian radars, but again it's based on simulations obviously, and Russian performance estimates are usually too generous.


Well they have been developing radars to counter stealth for the past 30-odd years, and they weren't aware until relatively late that they had actually possessed a "counter-stealth" radar since the 1960s, i.e. Spoon Rest.

Out of curiosity, why do you have such an interest in radar systems?

Who wouldn't? Radar systems are awesome.

[East Ustya]

When it is turned on you cannot get near the array. Back when I was on a ship I heard all sorts of stories. Not sure if true but supposedly birds dropping dead, and that you could make light bulb light up or popcorn pop just but hanging it near the array. Maybe BS sea stories, but at very least the energy is so much it can be used as a microwave weapon of sorts, just by blasting out extremely powerful and focused radiation.

The DUKE anti-IED tools do that. Soldiers were warned to never turn them on around locals or livestock, because it microwaves them.

Obviously, that was closely obeyed.

And no innocents where hurt.....

[The New California Republic]

There are claimed detection ranges for an "F-117" for most of the newer Russian and Belarusian radars, but again it's based on simulations obviously, and Russian performance estimates are usually too generous.


Well they have been developing radars to counter stealth for the past 30-odd years, and they weren't aware until relatively late that they had actually possessed a "counter-stealth" radar since the 1960s, i.e. Spoon Rest.

Out of curiosity, why do you have such an interest in radar systems?

Air Force connections.

[Fartsniffage]

Out of curiosity, why do you have such an interest in radar systems?

Who wouldn't? Radar systems are awesome.

They are. But I can't just name random systems on the fly like TNCR can.

[Fartsniffage]

Out of curiosity, why do you have such an interest in radar systems?

Air Force connections.

So not just trying to improve your chances of getting laid with an advance gaydar? I am disappoint.

[East Ustya]

Air Force connections.

So not just trying to improve your chances of getting laid with an advance gaydar? I am disappoint.

[The New California Republic]

Air Force connections.

So not just trying to improve your chances of getting laid with an advance gaydar? I am disappoint.

Oh yes that too. A gaydar so advanced that it can even detect the stealth gays.

[Kernen]

The DUKE anti-IED tools do that. Soldiers were warned to never turn them on around locals or livestock, because it microwaves them.

Obviously, that was closely obeyed.

And no innocents where hurt.....

Yes, I haven't heard of many, many crippled and killed camels, sheep, dogs, and goats in Afghanistan mutilated for the entertainment of bored soldiers. Nor the angry owners who probably would think that American Humvees bring a curse.

[Novus America]

When it is turned on you cannot get near the array. Back when I was on a ship I heard all sorts of stories. Not sure if true but supposedly birds dropping dead, and that you could make light bulb light up or popcorn pop just but hanging it near the array. Maybe BS sea stories, but at very least the energy is so much it can be used as a microwave weapon of sorts, just by blasting out extremely powerful and focused radiation.

The DUKE anti-IED tools do that. Soldiers were warned to never turn them on around locals or livestock, because it microwaves them.

Obviously, that was closely obeyed.

We actually were very carful with SPY. Microwaving half of San Diego probably would look bad.