The Climate Change Thread: Or The Perils of Carbon

[Cekoviu]

Given the current trends, I'm a full-on doomer. The most promising technology is carbon capture and storage, but it requires a shitload of manpower and storage space.
10 years ago, carbon taxes and increases in renewable energy would've helped. But with the biggest contributors to climate change (China, USA, Russia, Japan) not on board with those things then and still not on board now, we're pretty fucked. The even worse thing is that third-world countries are still contributing a metric fuckton of babies every year and the higher population means a) more people to pollute, and b) even more overpopulation, worsening starvation and overcrowding.

Overpopulation is a myth.

Technically we haven't reached our carrying capacity as a whole, but we are quickly approaching that and there are already a ridiculous number of people dying from starvation due to a lack of distribution and compounded by locally dense populations.

Overpopulation is a myth.

And a racist one at that.

It's not racist to point out the fact that it's mainly poor countries in Africa and southwestern Asia contributing to this (even with the higher mortality rates, the net is higher than ideal). It is racist to say that this is due to something inherent to black people, Arabs, and Pakistanis. It's not - the high birth rate has to do with a lack of adequate birth control and sex education, which is difficult to improve because of war in some places, but mainly because of the consequences of Western imperialism. Who would've thought?

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Overpopulation is a myth.

Technically we haven't reached our carrying capacity as a whole, but we are quickly approaching that and there are already a ridiculous number of people dying from starvation due to a lack of distribution and compounded by locally dense populations.

And a racist one at that.

It's not racist to point out the fact that it's mainly poor countries in Africa and southwestern Asia contributing to this (even with the higher mortality rates, the net is higher than ideal). It is racist to say that this is due to something inherent to black people, Arabs, and Pakistanis. It's not - the high birth rate has to do with a lack of adequate birth control and sex education, which is difficult to improve because of war in some places, but mainly because of the consequences of Western imperialism. Who would've thought?

But the problem is not 'there are too many people', because we have plenty of room and resources. We are just not sharing those resources equitably. We can handle loads more people, but not at our current consumption. So, I would not call it overpopulation, because that suggests we need less people. We don't, we need to do something about resource consumption. Some cities are overcrowded, yes, but that is also due to a lack of sanitation and infrastructure, not because there are inherently too many people.

While it is not racist to point that out, the overpopulation myth is frequently used by racists to justify all manner of heinous policy proposals. For example, eugenics, taking away the right to have children from poor people, needing violent and destructive wars to cut down population size, hoping for a new plague, all policies aimed at reducing population mainly in Africa. In the west, the overpopulation myth (often glanced from busy shopping malls) is seen as a reason to limit immigration. So, while the overpopulation myth is not inherently racist in and of itself, it is mainly if not exclusive propagated by far-right groups.

[Ifreann]

All we need to do is nuke the capitalists and then aliens will come and give us the technology to create a communist utopia where we talk to dolphins.

[Rojava Free State]

I really do believe climate change along with several other factors will bring down our society. brace yourselves, The western dark age is coming

[Thermodolia]

All we need to do is nuke the capitalists and then aliens will come and give us the technology to create a communist utopia where we talk to dolphins.

WRA is that you?

[TMA 1]

Climate change shall be averted by the Monoliths.

[Ifreann]

All we need to do is nuke the capitalists and then aliens will come and give us the technology to create a communist utopia where we talk to dolphins.

WRA is that you?

>.>
<.<

[Dooom35796821595]

The problem is the definition of what renewable energy is and how much energy which we need. There is more than enough potential to replace fossil fuel energy. There has been for a very long time. Just wind and solar could replace most all of the energy in the United States. https://news.stanford.edu/news/2011/jan ... 12611.html

The resources for renewables are:

1) Wind-- On shore, off-shore, high altitude
2) Solar
3) Biogas-- from manure
4) Biodiesel
5) Hydroelectric-- run of the river and small scale hydroelectric (mitigate most of the large dam problems)
6) Geothermal
7) Ocean Thermal
Wave Energy

There is a lot more available than wind and solar energy. The new power plants can run both liquid fuels and electricity. Hybrid power plants can take in and distribute energy from any energy source. https://www.ge.com/renewableenergy/hybrid You could easily have biogas or biodiesel, distributed hydroelectric (micro hydro or run of the river) , solar, and wind running through a single power plant. This kind of arrangement would have more energy density than the current systems. It would be possible to attach this to a microgrid for a single community sell off the excess energy and have a more flexible, efficient system. You can also add in a solar heat pump, energy efficiency in housing, etc.

There are both net zero and energy plus houses and buildings. This is a matter of scaling up the technology. You could have a building that gave away its energy to startups inside the building if it was an energy plus building as part of a scheme to encourage innovation.

Thinking in terms of large fixed resources is not how microgrids and smart grids work. The more variety the better.

There is a second issue that is problematic with the story about power. Renewables can run both large scale power plants (multi-mega watt plants), and microgrids. There is flexibility in the grid allowing for better energy distribution and markets. You can create areas where communities can produce the same amount of energy they consume, then sell off the energy at peak periods when there is excess energy. https://www.energy.gov/articles/how-microgrids-work

There is a potentially much more flexible efficient system with less energy loss. Ultimately renewables will outproduce the current fossil fuel grid, be more flexible and cleaner.

There are places where people produce more energy than they need and have asked permission to put back energy into the system and are refused. If people want to produce excess renewables on their property and feed it into the grid as an investment, it should be allowed.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... government

You forgot the most important renewable, nuclear.

[Kannap]

We need to find a solution to make things better before it gets to the point that Floridians start moving north as climate refugees. We don't want Floridians moving north, we want to keep them in their peninsula prison, please consider.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

We need to find a solution to make things better before it gets to the point that Floridians start moving north as climate refugees. We don't want Floridians moving north, we want to keep them in their peninsula prison, please consider.

Build a wall.

[The Archipelago Territory]

I believe in climate change. However there is absolutely nothing we can do without reducing the quality of life especially since 90% is done by Chinese/Indian communists

[The Archipelago Territory]

We need to find a solution to make things better before it gets to the point that Floridians start moving north as climate refugees. We don't want Floridians moving north, we want to keep them in their peninsula prison, please consider.

Build a wall.

RIP Baja California

[UniversalCommons]

Nuclear is not a renewable. It is also badly mishandled in the United States. No one wants it in their back yard. The United States does not reprocess its nuclear waste. It does not build plants on a smaller scale which would not be vulnerable to terrorism. What it has done with Bill Gates and the Traveling Wave Reactor is criminal. https://www.popularmechanics.com/scienc ... tes-trump/

[Rojava Free State]

I believe in climate change. However there is absolutely nothing we can do without reducing the quality of life especially since 90% is done by Chinese/Indian communists

Okay when was India communist ever? And China is anything but communist dude. Communism in its purist form is an anarchic society where private property no longer exists. China is an authoritarian nightmare that corporations love to set up shop in. China isn't really communist at all and India doesn't even call itself communist

[The Archipelago Territory]

I believe in climate change. However there is absolutely nothing we can do without reducing the quality of life especially since 90% is done by Chinese/Indian communists

Okay when was India communist ever? And China is anything but communist dude. Communism in its purist form is an anarchic society where private property no longer exists. China is an authoritarian nightmare that corporations love to set up shop in. China isn't really communist at all and India doesn't even call itself communist

China is communist, Jinping said so himself, (Xi Jinping scrubbed the tapes saying he’s communist but they still exist in the US); India isn’t

[Rojava Free State]

Okay when was India communist ever? And China is anything but communist dude. Communism in its purist form is an anarchic society where private property no longer exists. China is an authoritarian nightmare that corporations love to set up shop in. China isn't really communist at all and India doesn't even call itself communist

China is communist, Jinping said so himself, (Xi Jinping scrubbed the tapes saying he’s communist but they still exist in the US); India isn’t

I don't care if xi jingping said the sky is green, China does not fit the definition of communism.

[Petrolheadia]

I doubt there exists a technology that can reverse climate change altogether. But there are technologies that can prevent it from getting worser: Renewable energy, for example.

It’s just whether we want to use it or not. After all, economic profit is gained from the sales of the more common energy source: Fossil fuel.

TIL people who install renewable solutions do it for shits and giggles, because it is unprofitable.

[Novus America]

Nuclear is not a renewable. It is also badly mishandled in the United States. No one wants it in their back yard. The United States does not reprocess its nuclear waste. It does not build plants on a smaller scale which would not be vulnerable to terrorism. What it has done with Bill Gates and the Traveling Wave Reactor is criminal. https://www.popularmechanics.com/scienc ... tes-trump/

Neither is solar and wind renewable technically. We have more than enough uranium and thorium to last us thousands of years. With hydrogen once that becomes viable millions of years.

You do realize the sun is a nuclear reactor right?

Big plants are not more vulnerable to terrorism either. Big plants are fine.

NIMBY idiots are problematic but nuclear is mostly built in heavy industrial and little populated areas.
Although nobody in San Diego seems to care. People get used to it.

The TWR is an interesting concept, but why not just build it here instead?

[Dooom35796821595]

Nuclear is not a renewable. It is also badly mishandled in the United States. No one wants it in their back yard. The United States does not reprocess its nuclear waste. It does not build plants on a smaller scale which would not be vulnerable to terrorism. What it has done with Bill Gates and the Traveling Wave Reactor is criminal. https://www.popularmechanics.com/scienc ... tes-trump/

It is renewable, as pointed out by a previous poster.

Bull shit. Fear is not fact
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fool.c ... -fear.aspx
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacity_factor

And by that argument solar and wind are not renewable.
You do realize the sun works on nuclear power right?

A thousand years buys us plenty of time for nuclear fusion. Which will last hundreds of thousands of years.

also
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca ... 889bca159a

One country’s idiotic policies doesn’t mean nuclear is a non starter, there are lots of stupid things Americans do, but that’s a problem with America, not the issues themselves. Most of the world was able to ban cluster bombs and land mines, but America’s to fond of killing children and civilians, doesn’t mean banning them is a bad idea.

[Hladgos]

I'm just really lookin forward to those unlivable heatwaves every summer in wide swaths across the equator. I do like ta sweat.

[UniversalCommons]

I'm hoping that it will be a good excuse to stop shooting at each other for a little while and solve the problems it creates.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

I'm hoping that it will be a good excuse to stop shooting at each other for a little while and solve the problems it creates.

Unfortunately people will be forced to migrate out of areas that become inhospitable, leading to an increase in conflict worldwide.

[Rojava Free State]

I'm hoping that it will be a good excuse to stop shooting at each other for a little while and solve the problems it creates.

If anything it'll only increase conflict and violence. Imagine the aftermath of hurricane Katrina but on an international level. That's global warming. I am almost certain that my grandkids will grow up in an uncivilized and post modern world of savagery and brutality

[Inkopolitia]

I do not care if I die, but I do care if people who don't want to die end up dying. Yes, climate change is bad. Yes, alternatives should be looked for and implemented worldwide.

[Great Minarchistan]

Yeah, that would be grand if it happened 30 years ago. However, the free market is too late, and even now it is transitioning too slowly.

God yes, would love having transitioned to clean energy when prices were skyhigh
And no, change isn't happening "slowly" at all.

Do you know why companies are investing in green energy? Taxes put on fossil fuels, subsidies for green energy, and the threat of government action against fossil fuels. For example, the Netherlands is closing all its coal plants in the foreseeable future, so no-one invests in coal anymore. That's not free market capitalism.

You say that as if:
a. fossil fuel businesses didnt get subsidies
b. investing on clean energy was anti-economic absent subsidies
c. "muh free market capitulizm" was literally anarcho capitalism

All of the above implied then yes you are right

Anyway, even if it did happen: it's accidental. The free market does not care about the environment, it cares about profits. So the free market cannot be trusted to make the right decisions all of the time, just because they accidentally did something good in the past.

Who cares about moral purpose? FWIW, TIL that technological evolution is accidental

Truth is, other methods are far superior to just trusting the free market, and capitalists point to even the smallest of investments in renewable energy to legitimise their faith in the invisible hand of the free market that got us in this mess in the first place.

It wasn't "the invisible hand" that darned us, economic development did. You say that as if cheap clean energy tech existed from day 1, when in fact its only now that renewables are gaining traction and handing positive spillover effects for current developing nations so they can avoid the highly carbon-dependent development path.