Should homosexuals have the right to marry?

[Karsol]

I'm not a fan of state governments taking MY rights away.

Wow, you're excellent at misreading my posts. I was saying how I would love for same-sex marriage to be legalized nationwide, on a state-by-state basis.

Please stop cherrypicking ten-page old responses and taking them seemingly deliberately out of context.

Why not just make it federal law?

[Der Teutoniker]

Why not just make it federal law?

I explained why in my post several pages back that he conveniently ignored. I have Statist tendencies, and desire to let people have the right to self-governance, something that decreases on a federal level.

[Ochmedious]

"The Lord God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man."
Genesis 2 v 22

"You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
Leviticus 18 v 22

See also Romans 1.

No. That is not what marriage is.

But someone did make a good point earlier, heterosexual or homosexual, we're all sinners in need of the grace of God; and He gives mercy on an equal basis through Jesus Christ.

ps. the reply mechanism on this website is awful.

It is actually. On a different system which hosted NS once, there was a feature called MultiQuote. I miss it terribly.

(I have taken the liberty of striking out the parts of your post which are irrelevant.)

Why is the Bible irrelevant? What could be more relevant than the opinion of the one who made us?

Since He made marriage, surely He is the only one qualified to define it.

[Risottia]

"The Lord God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man."
Genesis 2 v 22

"You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
Leviticus 18 v 22

See also Romans 1.

Hello... why should non-Christians abide to those rules?

Anyway, Leviticus 18:22 might just mean that you can have an homosexual intercourse when standing.

[Baltenstein]

"You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
Leviticus 18 v 22

See also Romans 1.

Actually, you shouldn't lie at all. It's a bad habit. Better stick to the truth.

[Risottia]

Why is the Bible irrelevant? What could be more relevant than the opinion of the one who made us?
Since He made marriage, surely He is the only one qualified to define it.

No, he's not.
Afaik, mr.God isn't an elected representative in any parliament. It's law we're discussing here, not sin. Religion is totally irrelevant.

Leviticus also specifies that it is forbidden to eat pork. Do you feel the need for a legal ban on pork, too? No. Because you have the freedom to eat pork if you want it, and not to eat it if you don't want to.
And, just to use your own argument, according to religious folks it's God who made pigs... so?

[Nobel Hobos]

"The Lord God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man."
Genesis 2 v 22

"You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
Leviticus 18 v 22

See also Romans 1.

No. That is not what marriage is.

But someone did make a good point earlier, heterosexual or homosexual, we're all sinners in need of the grace of God; and He gives mercy on an equal basis through Jesus Christ.

ps. the reply mechanism on this website is awful.

It is actually. On a different system which hosted NS once, there was a feature called MultiQuote. I miss it terribly.

(I have taken the liberty of striking out the parts of your post which are irrelevant.)

Why is the Bible irrelevant? What could be more relevant than the opinion of the one who made us?

Since He made marriage, surely He is the only one qualified to define it.

If He made marriage, please show where it is in the Bible.

Not just references to it, as something which people knew already. Show where God or Jesus introduces the idea of Marriage to people who did not know of it already.

(Or perhaps your argument is even shallower than that, and amounts to "God made everything" ... please no)

[Nobel Hobos]

Why is the Bible irrelevant? What could be more relevant than the opinion of the one who made us?
Since He made marriage, surely He is the only one qualified to define it.

No, he's not.
Afaik, mr.God isn't an elected representative in any parliament. It's law we're discussing here, not sin. Religion is totally irrelevant.

That is what I meant actually. Well read.

Then I had a rush of blood to the head, and asked the Bible-quoter to quote me some more Bible. I will probably regret that.

[Der Teutoniker]

If He made marriage, please show where it is in the Bible.

Pretty sure it was one the 8th day. Yep. *nods*

I really agree, though, that what the Bible says (or "may" say really) about morality should not decide whether a state that is not theocratic should allow same-sex marriage. I'm a Christian, I love Jesus, but His opinions, divine or not are not necessarily relevant to modern American legislation. Though I would still argue (correctly) that Jesus never condemned homosexuality Himself.

[Corydonia (Ancient)]

Marriage between a man and a woman is the foundation of society. Marriage has been attacked here in the USA by the so-called Playboy mentality (I use the word 'mentality' loosely here), by pornography, by anti-family laws, by feminists (rightly called "clipped haired, mean faced lesbians by Michael Savage) , and of course by the so-called 'gay' movement which is simply a movement of the mentally unbalanced to make their perversions not just legitimate but mainstream. I say send the homosexuals for treatment so they can be cured of their mental disorder. So-called 'gay' marriage is an abomination.

[Nobel Hobos]

I'm not a fan of state governments taking MY rights away.

Wow, you're excellent at misreading my posts. I was saying how I would love for same-sex marriage to be legalized nationwide, on a state-by-state basis.

Please stop cherrypicking ten-page old responses and taking them seemingly deliberately out of context.

Why not just make it federal law?

Repeal DOMA first. It is corrupting marriage, by applying a definition of marriage which did not apply when many existing marriages were entered into. There are people still married, who entered into it considering it a bond of love and devotion, who have had it redefined in the meantime as a sexist and discriminatory arrangement.

NARROWING the definition of marriage is what insults and breaches existing marriages. Not WIDENING it.

[Karsol]

Marriage between a man and a woman is the foundation of society. Marriage has been attacked here in the USA by the so-called Playboy mentality (I use the word 'mentality' loosely here), by pornography, by anti-family laws, by feminists (rightly called "clipped haired, mean faced lesbians by Michael Savage) , and of course by the so-called 'gay' movement which is simply a movement of the mentally unbalanced to make their perversions not just legitimate but mainstream. I say send the homosexuals for treatment so they can be cured of their mental disorder. So-called 'gay' marriage is an abomination.

Othodox monks used to join males of the same sex in an act of holy matrimony in the dawn of Christianity.
Nothing different than MArriage in the common sense.

[Ifreann]

Marriage between a man and a woman is the foundation of society. Marriage has been attacked here in the USA by the so-called Playboy mentality (I use the word 'mentality' loosely here), by pornography, by anti-family laws, by feminists (rightly called "clipped haired, mean faced lesbians by Michael Savage) , and of course by the so-called 'gay' movement which is simply a movement of the mentally unbalanced to make their perversions not just legitimate but mainstream. I say send the homosexuals for treatment so they can be cured of their mental disorder. So-called 'gay' marriage is an abomination.

Roughly nothing in this post is true.

[Nobel Hobos]

Marriage between a man and a woman is the foundation of society.

The foundation of society is co-operation, exemplified by mutual agreement on laws and widespread obedience to the law.

Marriage has been attacked here in the USA by the so-called Playboy mentality (I use the word 'mentality' loosely here), by pornography, by anti-family laws, by feminists (rightly called "clipped haired, mean faced lesbians by Michael Savage) , and of course by the so-called 'gay' movement which is simply a movement of the mentally unbalanced to make their perversions not just legitimate but mainstream. I say send the homosexuals for treatment so they can be cured of their mental disorder. So-called 'gay' marriage is an abomination.

That doesn't deserve an answer.

Expand on your first sentence please.

[Nobel Hobos]

Marriage between a man and a woman is the foundation of society. Marriage has been attacked here in the USA by the so-called Playboy mentality (I use the word 'mentality' loosely here), by pornography, by anti-family laws, by feminists (rightly called "clipped haired, mean faced lesbians by Michael Savage) , and of course by the so-called 'gay' movement which is simply a movement of the mentally unbalanced to make their perversions not just legitimate but mainstream. I say send the homosexuals for treatment so they can be cured of their mental disorder. So-called 'gay' marriage is an abomination.

Othodox monks used to join males of the same sex in an act of holy matrimony in the dawn of Christianity.
Nothing different than MArriage in the common sense.

Tell me more about these Orthodox monks.

We can have some light banter. Perhaps Corydonia will venture back into debate, with only Ifreann to contend with ...

Let us, you and I, explore the (no doubt deeply creepy) customs of monks in the first century AD, while also enjoying the sight of Corydonia being used as a chew-toy.

[Self--Esteem]

Is it just me or do some Bible backers get more ignorant by each day?

Leviticus is now a universal rule everyone has to abide to? Talk about free will.

[Dark Phoenix Reborn]

The article at http://www.bilerico.com/2010/04/sonoma_county_ca_separates_elderly_gay_couple_and.php relates the story of an elderly Gay couple in Sonoma, California who thought they had secured all the "legal" protection for their relationship that they could, i.e. Wills and Trusts, Durable Medical Power of Attorney, and Advanced Medical Directives. When one of them falls, the county refuses to recognise the documents and places them in separate nursing homes, denies visitation, and takes control of their financial accounts and property which are liquidated at auction and seized. When the one who fell, dies, the other ends up never having been able to say good-bye, penniless and without property, and inherits a photo album that the deceased managed to salvage from the State's carnage.

I'm curious what people who oppose gay marriage have to say about the obvious abuse of executive power here, but it's about more than marriage. Sonoma County not only disregarded legally binding documents, but exceded the limited authority that the District Court had granted.

It's of great concern for any one who relies on such documents in the absence of de-facto legal protection provided by marriage. But can you honestly say that had they been Man and Wife, that any of it would have happened?

[Nobel Hobos]

The article at http://www.bilerico.com/2010/04/sonoma_county_ca_separates_elderly_gay_couple_and.php relates the story of an elderly Gay couple in Sonoma, California who thought they had secured all the "legal" protection for their relationship that they could, i.e. Wills and Trusts, Durable Medical Power of Attorney, and Advanced Medical Directives. When one of them falls, the county refuses to recognise the documents and places them in separate nursing homes, denies visitation, and takes control of their financial accounts and property which are liquidated at auction and seized. When the one who fell, dies, the other ends up never having been able to say good-bye, penniless and without property, and inherits a photo album that the deceased managed to salvage from the State's carnage.

I'm curious what people who oppose gay marriage have to say about the obvious abuse of executive power here, but it's about more than marriage. Sonoma County not only disregarded legally binding documents, but exceded the limited authority that the District Court had granted.

It's of great concern for any one who relies on such documents in the absence of de-facto legal protection provided by marriage. But can you honestly say that had they been Man and Wife, that any of it would have happened?

It's as much a story about the mistreatment of elders, as of same-sex couples.

A trial date has been set for July 16, 2010 in the Superior Court for the County of Sonoma.

Bring it on!

[Simination]

There is nothing wrong with Gay marriage or Homosexuality in general. I do not know the origion of homosexual behaviour, just like I do not know the origion of peoples tendency to touch objects that they are told are hot, and in both cases, I dont care.

Gays should be allowed to get marries just as much as any other couple should, and if a church says they wont do it, then they are discriminating wich imidiatly should make them illegal or atleast drop any form of goverment help (inlcuding tax-cuts)

[Dark Phoenix Reborn]

Is it just me or do some Bible backers get more ignorant by each day?

Leviticus is now a universal rule everyone has to abide to? Talk about free will.

As a proud Utahrd constantly surrounded by Mormons, I have a testimony from Jesus Christ himself that you only have free will as long as you choose what you are dictated to choose. Mormons also believe that each individual must speak to Jesus personally when trying to choose what is right, and God will provide divine revelation to each and every one of us, but again, the revelation you recieve from God must conform to the dictates of the Church, or it's Satan. Funny how they empower the individual with divine revelation and simultaneously castrate him with conformity.

[Dark Phoenix Reborn]

It's as much a story about the mistreatment of elders, as of same-sex couples.

A trial date has been set for July 16, 2010 in the Superior Court for the County of Sonoma.

Bring it on!

I had been thinking of taking my vacation this year to Sonoma's abundant vineyards and bed and breakfasts (oddly many B&Bs are gay or very gay-friendly), but now I may be taking it to sit in at the Sonoma County Court Complex. I have nothing better to do since election years in Utah are as uneventful as watching paint peel, and I can blog from my crackberry as fast as I can type on my lap top. Maybe I found my calling in life. It's this or getting my Doctor of Divinity and founding my own church (a 501(c)3 of course) which not only allows same-sex marriage, but promotes it as the foundation of the subculture that has brought society Liberacce, Elton John, and Lady Ga Ga. I think some of the Bible Bumblers just wet their pants.

[Balavoria]

Is it just me or do some Bible backers get more ignorant by each day?

Leviticus is now a universal rule everyone has to abide to? Talk about free will.

As a proud Utahrd constantly surrounded by Mormons, I have a testimony from Jesus Christ himself that you only have free will as long as you choose what you are dictated to choose. Mormons also believe that each individual must speak to Jesus personally when trying to choose what is right, and God will provide divine revelation to each and every one of us, but again, the revelation you recieve from God must conform to the dictates of the Church, or it's Satan. Funny how they empower the individual with divine revelation and simultaneously castrate him with conformity.

I couldn't agree more with that statement.

[Balavoria]

There is nothing wrong with Gay marriage or Homosexuality in general. I do not know the origion of homosexual behaviour, just like I do not know the origion of peoples tendency to touch objects that they are told are hot, and in both cases, I dont care.

Gays should be allowed to get marries just as much as any other couple should, and if a church says they wont do it, then they are discriminating wich imidiatly should make them illegal or atleast drop any form of goverment help (inlcuding tax-cuts)

I agree with you. aren't they supposed to keep church and state separate anyway?

if the church says they won't do it, make a new one that will.

[Alexlantis]

of course they should, its not a left-wing or right-wing issue, its a equality issue.

Agreed. I've never quite understood why people try to even present this kind of issue as partisan one way or the other. Equality shouldn't depend on a party.

Agreed.

[WokaStates]

Of course and homosexuals have the right to get married. It is not their choice that they were born like this.

And, in case you wonder, I am straight.