NATION

PASSWORD

Hey Girl! How Would You Like To Make $1,000 A Week?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Should MLMs be legal?

Yes. It's a legitimate business.
3
5%
Yes but with mandatory and clear disclosures of actual income statistics.
10
15%
No. They are blatantly fraudulent.
46
70%
I want to make easy money for no work!
7
11%
 
Total votes : 66

User avatar
Scomagia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18703
Founded: Apr 14, 2009
Ex-Nation

Hey Girl! How Would You Like To Make $1,000 A Week?

Postby Scomagia » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:40 pm

Yes, it's time to talk about the so-called home businesses being peddled to stay at home moms and young women everywhere! I'm talking, of course, about Multi-Level Marketing, the hottest legal scam!
https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/201 ... ue-arbonne
https://money.howstuffworks.com/pyramid-scheme2.htm
https://www.truthinadvertising.org/mlm- ... stigation/
A TINA.org investigation found more than 97 percent of DSA member companies engaged in misleading marketing schemes that peddle false and unsubstantiated earnings claims trying to convince prospective distributors to join their MLM network. TINA.org’s probe examined the marketing of every DSA member company as of Nov. 29, 2017 and found that 137 out of 140 misrepresented the amount of money participants are likely to earn — misrepresentations that cause real and substantial harm to consumers.

TINA.org’s findings not only constitute violations of FTC law, they also breach the DSA’s own Code of Ethics and in doing so contradict DSA President Joe Mariano’s public statements on the supposed higher standards of the code:

But what do the earning figures actually look like for MLMs overall?
And this fact, that most MLM participants do not earn substantial incomes, is not new. The DSA acknowledged more than a decade ago that the majority of distributors made less than $10,000 per year from direct selling, with a median annual gross income of about $2,400, or $200 per month, which means that half of all distributors made less than $200 per month before deducting expenses associated with their business.

Moreover, a review of 32 income disclosure statements that TINA.org was able to dig up for current DSA member companies revealed that more than 80 percent of distributors grossed less than $1,200 annually or less than $100 per month before expenses. And for about half of these companies, the disclosures indicate that the majority of distributors made no money at all.

For example, Team National, whose CEO holds a seat on the DSA Board of Directors and also chairs the DSA Education Committee, revealed in its 2016 income earnings disclosure statement that 93 percent of its active distributors (or about 45,000 people) averaged a gross income of less than $500 for the year, or less than $42 per month before deducting expenses. The disclosure goes on to state that about 86 percent of all active distributors “received no income at all,” which equates to almost 42,000 distributors losing money. At the same time, Team National has posted more than 120 distributor testimonials, including over 50 videos, making lavish lifestyle claims.

That's right. Not only are you exceedingly unlikely to earn any worthwhile amount of money, you're actually pretty likely to even out after expenses or, worse, actually lose money! This is despite the claims made by these companies that you can be a self made woman (usually) with her own business. Yet, despite the blatantly false claims made by MLMs, they are perfectly legal businesses in the US and many other countries. Now, you may be asking yourself: "how does a business that follows the same essential structure of an illegal pyramid scheme not get shut down?" Apparently, pyramid schemes are legal if you pretend from the outset that the main goal is selling a product, even if nearly all of the company's profits actually come from sign up fees. Yes, it's that simple. If you make a business exclusively based on profit from new member's fees, that's illegal. If ypu make a business that derives virtually all of its profit from new members but you also sell a product (regardless of its actual marketability) you're totally in the clear.

So, now that you know a bit more about MLMs, what is your opinion? Should these companies be illegal like their pyramid sceme bretheren, or do you think the addition of a product differentiates these businesses enough that they should be legal? Are you in an MLM, or have you or someone you know ever been in one? What was your experience?

My three cents: MLMs are insufficiently different from illegal pyramid schemes, despite the "products" (which are often overpriced and low quality items that are difficult to move) and should be illegal or, at least, should be forced to end their deceptive advertising claims. I helped an ex-girlfriend peddle Avon, which sucked, and in the past year I've seen two good friends get sucked down the MLM rabbit hole. They've become distant because they're always trying to hustle their shit and their Facebook pages have become more fictional than real since they started lying to get new recruits. "Fake it till you make it" is a very real part of MLMs and recruits are usually encouraged to lie openly and often about their profits to boost their downline with new recruits.
https://www.talentedladiesclub.com/arti ... -and-sell/

So, what say you NSG?
Insert trite farewell here

User avatar
Heloin
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26091
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Heloin » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:02 pm

They're legalised Pyramid Schemes and nothing more. They should be made illegal and they owners of MLMs should be in jail for fraud.
Last edited by Heloin on Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
The Huskar Social Union
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59282
Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:03 pm

Thought this would be about your woman sending tap water to thirsty boyos on the internet for some reason.


Anyway, scam's a scam, doesnt matter how you dress it up.
Irish Nationalist from Belfast / Leftwing / Atheist / Alliance Party voter
"I never thought in terms of being a leader, i thought very simply in terms of helping people" - John Hume 1937 - 2020



I like Miniature painting, Tanks, English Gals, Video games and most importantly Cheese.


User avatar
Scomagia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18703
Founded: Apr 14, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Scomagia » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:04 pm

Heloin wrote:They're legalised Ponzi Schemes and nothing more. They should be made illegal and they owners of MLMs should be in jail for fraud.

That's my feeling exactly. After seeing my friends "invest" literal thousands of dollars in this hokum, I am infuriated that they are legal! It's no different than three card monty or any other base hustle.
Insert trite farewell here

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44956
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:05 pm

Whammy, blammy, ban the scammy.
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.



Effortposts can be found here!

User avatar
Cekoviu
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16954
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Cekoviu » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:07 pm

Yeah, they should probably be illegal. They can also disintegrate into some really awful shit like with Keith Raniere's sex slaves.
pro: women's rights
anti: men's rights

User avatar
Scomagia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18703
Founded: Apr 14, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Scomagia » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:07 pm

The Huskar Social Union wrote:Thought this would be about your woman sending tap water to thirsty boyos on the internet for some reason.


Anyway, scam's a scam, doesnt matter how you dress it up.

Is it wrong that I've suggested such things to Mrs. Scomagia? :p Talk about some real easy money.

Right but the trouble is legally they aren't scams. MLMs have a powerful lobby and, additionally, several members of the Trump administration are or have been heavily involved in the "industry", including Trump himself. Any moves to make MLMs illegal are going to have to wait for a new administration and have some serious financial backing.
Insert trite farewell here

User avatar
Scomagia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18703
Founded: Apr 14, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Scomagia » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:08 pm

Cekoviu wrote:Yeah, they should probably be illegal. They can also disintegrate into some really awful shit like with Keith Raniere's sex slaves.

That's the NXIUM sex ring, right?
Insert trite farewell here

User avatar
Cekoviu
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16954
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Cekoviu » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:09 pm

Scomagia wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:Yeah, they should probably be illegal. They can also disintegrate into some really awful shit like with Keith Raniere's sex slaves.

That's the NXIUM sex ring, right?

Yep. Though you spelled it too reasonably; it's actually NXIVM for some reason...
pro: women's rights
anti: men's rights

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44956
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:11 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Scomagia wrote:That's the NXIUM sex ring, right?

Yep. Though you spelled it too reasonably; it's actually NXIVM for some reason...

Well, the V is just Latinate script U...
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.



Effortposts can be found here!

User avatar
Scomagia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18703
Founded: Apr 14, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Scomagia » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:12 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Scomagia wrote:That's the NXIUM sex ring, right?

Yep. Though you spelled it too reasonably; it's actually NXIVM for some reason...

Ah, of course it'd be spelled as fucktarded as possible. Man, that one is seriously dark. MLMs in general often have a cult-like atmosphere but they rarely become a legit cult. Most of the time they just indoctrinate things like magical thinking via the "Law of Attraction" and similar junk.
Insert trite farewell here

User avatar
Oxes Republic
Diplomat
 
Posts: 795
Founded: Nov 08, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Oxes Republic » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:13 pm

The only reason to keep it legal is the subreddit r/antimlm is pretty good
2023-2024 Buffalo Bills Season Failed

User avatar
Ors Might
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8497
Founded: Nov 01, 2016
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Ors Might » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:13 pm

The Huskar Social Union wrote:Thought this would be about your woman sending tap water to thirsty boyos on the internet for some reason.


Anyway, scam's a scam, doesnt matter how you dress it up.

I had the same thought.

Somehow this is even more disgusting, albeit a different kind of disgust.
https://youtu.be/gvjOG5gboFU Best diss track of all time

User avatar
Heloin
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26091
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Heloin » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:15 pm

The Huskar Social Union wrote:Thought this would be about your woman sending tap water to thirsty boyos on the internet for some reason.

I'll sell you all my dish water for next months rent. I'll even spit in it for free.

Scomagia wrote:
Heloin wrote:They're legalised Ponzi Schemes and nothing more. They should be made illegal and they owners of MLMs should be in jail for fraud.

That's my feeling exactly. After seeing my friends "invest" literal thousands of dollars in this hokum, I am infuriated that they are legal! It's no different than three card monty or any other base hustle.

An ex briefly got sucked into on of them and it took basically everyone, friends and family, to convince her that she was caught up in a scam. The biggest danger really that MLMs have is that they have the legal protection so they can paint themselves at legitimate so easily.

User avatar
Scomagia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18703
Founded: Apr 14, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Scomagia » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:16 pm

Oxes Republic wrote:The only reason to keep it legal is the subreddit r/antimlm is pretty good

I love r/antimlm. I found that subreddit when I was investigating the bullshit my friends were buying into.
Insert trite farewell here

User avatar
Cekoviu
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16954
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Cekoviu » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:23 pm

Kowani wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:Yep. Though you spelled it too reasonably; it's actually NXIVM for some reason...

Well, the V is just Latinate script U...

Which would make sense if they had any other Roman imagery, but their entire point as an organization is removed heavily from that.
Scomagia wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:Yep. Though you spelled it too reasonably; it's actually NXIVM for some reason...

Ah, of course it'd be spelled as fucktarded as possible. Man, that one is seriously dark. MLMs in general often have a cult-like atmosphere but they rarely become a legit cult. Most of the time they just indoctrinate things like magical thinking via the "Law of Attraction" and similar junk.

Yeah, and even the publicly visible side of it is seriously fucked up. There's a bunch of indoctrination into being completely self-hating if you're a woman and putting men into misandristic, yet chauvinist roles.
At least according to my understanding; most of what I know about it is due to the CBC podcast Uncover.
pro: women's rights
anti: men's rights

User avatar
Valrifell
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31063
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Valrifell » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:25 pm

Give 'em the old wham bam blam ban, like most countries already have.
HAVING AN ALL CAPS SIG MAKES ME FEEL SMART

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44956
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:25 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Kowani wrote:Well, the V is just Latinate script U...

Which would make sense if they had any other Roman imagery, but their entire point as an organization is removed heavily from that.

In that case, I’ve got nothing.
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.



Effortposts can be found here!

User avatar
The Huskar Social Union
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59282
Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:27 pm

Heloin wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Thought this would be about your woman sending tap water to thirsty boyos on the internet for some reason.

I'll sell you all my dish water for next months rent. I'll even spit in it for free.

No offence but im gona have to turn you down.
Scomagia wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Thought this would be about your woman sending tap water to thirsty boyos on the internet for some reason.


Anyway, scam's a scam, doesnt matter how you dress it up.

Is it wrong that I've suggested such things to Mrs. Scomagia? :p Talk about some real easy money.
you.... do you, cuz that girl is a genius as far as i am concerned, she is playing her audience like a fucking fiddle.
Irish Nationalist from Belfast / Leftwing / Atheist / Alliance Party voter
"I never thought in terms of being a leader, i thought very simply in terms of helping people" - John Hume 1937 - 2020



I like Miniature painting, Tanks, English Gals, Video games and most importantly Cheese.


User avatar
Scomagia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18703
Founded: Apr 14, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Scomagia » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:31 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Kowani wrote:Well, the V is just Latinate script U...

Which would make sense if they had any other Roman imagery, but their entire point as an organization is removed heavily from that.
Scomagia wrote:Ah, of course it'd be spelled as fucktarded as possible. Man, that one is seriously dark. MLMs in general often have a cult-like atmosphere but they rarely become a legit cult. Most of the time they just indoctrinate things like magical thinking via the "Law of Attraction" and similar junk.

Yeah, and even the publicly visible side of it is seriously fucked up. There's a bunch of indoctrination into being completely self-hating if you're a woman and putting men into misandristic, yet chauvinist roles.
At least according to my understanding; most of what I know about it is due to the CBC podcast Uncover.

A lot of MLMs do encourage misandry, even to the point of directly lying to your husband about your expenses because "he just doesn't want you to be an independant woman!"

It's really sad. :(
Insert trite farewell here

User avatar
Heloin
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26091
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Heloin » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:31 pm

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
Heloin wrote:I'll sell you all my dish water for next months rent. I'll even spit in it for free.

No offence but im gona have to turn you down.

Prude. Don't help me pay my rent, fine. See what I care.

User avatar
Petrolheadia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11388
Founded: May 02, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Petrolheadia » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:31 pm

Look, I don't wanna be the asshole here, but if you enter an MLM scheme in 2019 with all that is known about them, it's kinda very much your fault.
Capitalism, single-payer healthcare, pro-choice, LGBT rights, progressive personal taxation, low corporate tax, pro-business law, welfare for those in need.
Nazism, edgism, dogmatic statements, most of Abrahamic-derived morality (esp. as law), welfare for those not in need.
We are not Albania and I am not Albanian, FFS!
Male, gearhead, classic rock fan, gamer, agnostic.
Not sure if left-libertarian, ex-libertarian or without a damn clue.
Where you can talk about cars!
"They're always saying I'm a Capitalist pig. I suppose I am, but, ah...it ah...it's good for my drumming, I think." - Keith Moon,
If a Porsche owner treats it like a bicycle, he's a gentleman. And if he prays to it, he's simply a moron. - Jan Nowicki.

User avatar
Scomagia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18703
Founded: Apr 14, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Scomagia » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:38 pm

Petrolheadia wrote:Look, I don't wanna be the asshole here, but if you enter an MLM scheme in 2019 with all that is known about them, it's kinda very much your fault.

The same could be said about any scam, though. These companies deliberately prey on desperate young women and stay at home moms, two groups eager to make money selling things to their friends and, in the case of moms, too busy to really get the facts straight. I have a lot of sympathy for those being hustled.
Insert trite farewell here

User avatar
Petrolheadia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11388
Founded: May 02, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Petrolheadia » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:40 pm

Scomagia wrote:
Petrolheadia wrote:Look, I don't wanna be the asshole here, but if you enter an MLM scheme in 2019 with all that is known about them, it's kinda very much your fault.

The same could be said about any scam, though. These companies deliberately prey on desperate young women and stay at home moms, two groups eager to make money selling things to their friends and, in the case of moms, too busy to really get the facts straight. I have a lot of sympathy for those being hustled.

You can have sympathy, but it still does not invalidate their ability to reason by themselves. If you don't know what you're getting into, don't get into it.
Capitalism, single-payer healthcare, pro-choice, LGBT rights, progressive personal taxation, low corporate tax, pro-business law, welfare for those in need.
Nazism, edgism, dogmatic statements, most of Abrahamic-derived morality (esp. as law), welfare for those not in need.
We are not Albania and I am not Albanian, FFS!
Male, gearhead, classic rock fan, gamer, agnostic.
Not sure if left-libertarian, ex-libertarian or without a damn clue.
Where you can talk about cars!
"They're always saying I'm a Capitalist pig. I suppose I am, but, ah...it ah...it's good for my drumming, I think." - Keith Moon,
If a Porsche owner treats it like a bicycle, he's a gentleman. And if he prays to it, he's simply a moron. - Jan Nowicki.

User avatar
Scomagia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18703
Founded: Apr 14, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Scomagia » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:43 pm

Petrolheadia wrote:
Scomagia wrote:The same could be said about any scam, though. These companies deliberately prey on desperate young women and stay at home moms, two groups eager to make money selling things to their friends and, in the case of moms, too busy to really get the facts straight. I have a lot of sympathy for those being hustled.

You can have sympathy, but it still does not invalidate their ability to reason by themselves. If you don't know what you're getting into, don't get into it.

That's sort of fair but I think you're overlooking the social pressure that gets a lot of people hooked into these scams. Oftentimes it's a trusted friend or relative giving you the pitch and that makes a lot of otherwise smart people buy into dumb things.
Insert trite farewell here

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dazchan, Korean Nations, Tiami, Tillania, Tungstan

Advertisement

Remove ads