Trump stirs up the nativist pot (again)

[Liriena]

>Trump isn't racist

Apart from all his comments about Mexicans. And all his comments about Muslims. And the whole "shithole countries" thing.

If those countries aren't shitholes then why do so many of their people want to come here? Is there perhaps something wrong with their countries?

It bears pointing out that his "shithole countries" comment was in the context of him denigrating those who immigrated from those countries and wishing the United States would get more people from countries like Norway.

[Nova Cyberia]

If those countries aren't shitholes then why do so many of their people want to come here? Is there perhaps something wrong with their countries?

It bears pointing out that his "shithole countries" comment was in the context of him denigrating those who immigrated from those countries and wishing the United States would get more people from countries like Norway.

Well, yeah, people from countries like Norway tend to be more educated and more skilled.

You know, the exact opposite type of immigrant from what we usually get.

[Galiantus III]

Well you certainly have a warped perception of reality. Republicans hate racists just as much as Democrats, and actively try to win the votes of whoever is out there. A vote is a vote, and both parties happily seek votes from whoever they can. It's only the fringe left and right who want to smear Republicans as racist because it benefits both their narratives.

Right... it's not at all as if there's Republicans who support the Klan or think that racists are "fine people." It's not at all as if the very topic of the thread is the most prominent Republican there is thinking that certain PoC were immigrants presumably based on their race.

You can't define the mainstream by fringes. The vast majority of Republicans and Democrats are just regular Americans who oppose racism. What you need to understand is that it is to the advantage of the actual racists to slander one side as the racists in order to appear more legitimate. You and others are eating up their tactic of trying to leech off the Republican party and in the process are giving them more power. And by the way, there absolutely are racists among the Democrats. There are those among the Democrats who have a white savior complex, or believe minorities are less intelligent and less capable than whites, and thus need to be treated almost like children. But again, this isn't mainstream. Most Democrats and Republicans absolutely are "fine people".

[Chestaan]

What ai find particularly strange is that Trump's whole idea is to make America great again. But that must mean that he doesn't think America is great currently. So then, by his own logic, should he not fuck off to some other country?

[Galiantus III]

Well you certainly have a warped perception of reality. Republicans hate racists just as much as Democrats, and actively try to win the votes of whoever is out there. A vote is a vote, and both parties happily seek votes from whoever they can. It's only the fringe left and right who want to smear Republicans as racist because it benefits both their narratives.

And yet they keep electing racists. And coming out in support of racists when they get arrested for doing racist shit. Funny, that.

No, you have just been tricked into thinking they are racists by people who want race to be the defining issue of American politics. Stop giving the real racists that kind of power. Do what Morgan Freeman says, and stop talking about it.

[Liriena]

Cursing and racism are not equivalent.

Trump is not racist.

Let's see... Trump is a guy who:

1. Got sued for housing discrimination and settled.
2. Was actively involved in the birther movement and didn't admit he was wrong until 2016.
3. Campaigned in favour of executing five innocent black men (the Central Park five) and to this day still insists that they were guilty.
4. Keeps getting massively triggered every time a black or latino person is publicly critical of him.
5. Allegedly complained about having black accountants and said that he preferred Jewish ones.
6. Specifically directs his anti-immigrant hysteria at two groups: Muslims and Mexicans. He has never spoken about, for example, Canadians who overstay their visas. And in the case of his bias against Mexicans, while you might try to argue that he's just being xenophobic, not racist, it bears remembering...
7. How he talked about Judge Gonzalo Curiel, who is an American citizen born in Indiana. Trump still called him "Mexican", which pretty heavily suggests that he's racialized the term.
8. Claimed that there were "fine people" among the neo-nazis of Charlottesville.
9. And finally, the fact that he seemingly included AOC among the congresswomen he encourages to leave the country. Despite the fact that AOC was born in the United States and comes from a Puerto Rican family.

AOC broke campaign finance laws

[citation needed]

And that's not synonymous with insanity.

What is interesting to note about Trump is that he engaged in housing discrimination and sexually predatory behaviour back when he was a Democrat.

So?

[NERVUN]

How big of a war effort did the Palestinians play?

Irrelevant, they wanted the land anyway and were the chief cause.

Excuse me, but to the best of my knowledge, Trump is not an Israeli, nor is he Jewish, nor is he Arabic.

Given the topic of the thread is TRUMP, get back to it.

[Liriena]

It bears pointing out that his "shithole countries" comment was in the context of him denigrating those who immigrated from those countries and wishing the United States would get more people from countries like Norway.

Well, yeah, people from countries like Norway tend to be more educated and more skilled.

"Tend" is a rather squirrelly word, and not one that should ever be used to profile millions of people based on nationality alone. There are unskilled, uneducated Norwegians and there are brilliant Haitian professionals.

And it's telling that he specifically pointed to overwhelmingly black countries.

[Nova Cyberia]

Well, yeah, people from countries like Norway tend to be more educated and more skilled.

"Tend" is a rather squirrelly word, and not one that should ever be used to profile millions of people based on nationality alone. There are unskilled, uneducated Norwegians and there are brilliant Haitian professionals.

And it's telling that he specifically pointed to overwhelmingly black countries.

That's great and all, but most of the Haitians we've been getting aren't brilliant professionals. The vast majority are poor and uneducated.

[Liriena]

"Tend" is a rather squirrelly word, and not one that should ever be used to profile millions of people based on nationality alone. There are unskilled, uneducated Norwegians and there are brilliant Haitian professionals.

And it's telling that he specifically pointed to overwhelmingly black countries.

That's great and all, but most of the Haitians we've been getting aren't brilliant professionals. The vast majority are poor and uneducated.

Have they been an overall detriment to your country?

[Nova Cyberia]

That's great and all, but most of the Haitians we've been getting aren't brilliant professionals. The vast majority are poor and uneducated.

Have they been an overall detriment to your country?

No, but that isn't really the point. In these great US of A, we have an excess of unskilled workers and a shortage of skilled workers. We need more skilled workers, but are not getting that from most of the immigrants who come here. That is what Trump was talking about. If Haiti was a prosperous and modern country like Norway then it wouldn't be an issue, but it isn't.

[Orbitar]

They should, tbh. People like Omar who come here just to shit all over our country really need to go back.

So calling out a corrupt and morally dead proto-fascist is shitting on our country? What strange logic.

[Liriena]

Have they been an overall detriment to your country?

No, but that isn't really the point.

It kind of is, though. If those people have been a net gain for your society, arguing that they're somehow superfluous or that their unskilled, uneducated status justifies excluding their entire nationality seems rather bizarre.

You can of course argue that you need more skilled and educated workers, but this is not a zero-sum game.

[Galiantus III]

Trump is not racist.

Let's see... Trump is a guy who:

1. Got sued for housing discrimination and settled.

That's not current.

2. Was actively involved in the birther movement and didn't admit he was wrong until 2016.

The birther movement has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with immigration and naturalization.

3. Campaigned in favour of executing five innocent black men (the Central Park five) and to this day still insists that they were guilty.

One is allowed to hold an opinion on the outcome of a court ruling. And just because they were black doesn't imply racism.

4. Keeps getting massively triggered every time a black or latino person is publicly critical of him.

Dude, he gets triggered whenever ANYONE is publicly critical of him.

5. Allegedly complained about having black accountants and said that he preferred Jewish ones.

"Allegedly".

6. Specifically directs his anti-immigrant hysteria at two groups: Muslims and Mexicans. He has never spoken about, for example, Canadians who overstay their visas. And in the case of his bias against Mexicans, while you might try to argue that he's just being xenophobic, not racist, it bears remembering...

First: "Muslim" isn't a race, it's a religion. And "Mexican" isn't a race, it's a nationality.

Second: The largest numbers of people trying to enter the country as migrants, refugees, or illegal aliens are crossing from the Southern Border, or coming from the Middle East. So if you want to address that problem, those are the geographical areas to address. Again, you are attributing racism where it doesn't matter.

7. How he talked about Judge Gonzalo Curiel, who is an American citizen born in Indiana. Trump still called him "Mexican", which pretty heavily suggests that he's racialized the term.

The left racialized the term a LONG time ago when they claimed that border enforcement was racist.

8. Claimed that there were "fine people" among the neo-nazis of Charlottesville.

No. He said "there were fine people on both sides". Antifa was among those on the left. They are not fine. They are evil as the neo-Nazis. He was talking about the people who were there who were neither far left nor far right, and saying it was unfortunate for them to get mixed up in the violence there when they should have been able to expect a peaceful protest.

9. And finally, the fact that he seemingly included AOC among the congresswomen he encourages to leave the country. Despite the fact that AOC was born in the United States and comes from a Puerto Rican family.

AOC broke campaign finance laws

[citation needed]

And that's not synonymous with insanity.

Sure.

One only need to listen to AOC talk to realize she is either insane or feigning stupidity. She does not speak clearly, she does not say anything intelligent, and she does insanely contradictory things: For example, she voted with Trump to keep the government shutdown going, and she said "I am the boss" even though she is supposed to be "resisting" Donald Trump.

What is interesting to note about Trump is that he engaged in housing discrimination and sexually predatory behaviour back when he was a Democrat.

So?

So people change. Trump also used to support abortion, now he's against it. He used to be a Democrat, now he's a Republican. It's been a while. You need to present evidence he is still racist (if he was actually discriminating in housing) and still sexually predatory. Hell, Bill Clinton was just as predatory as Trump, given the available evidence, and I am really struggling to see what either of their sexual escapades have to do with the claim that he is racist.

[Nova Cyberia]

No, but that isn't really the point.

It kind of is, though. If those people have been a net gain for your society, arguing that they're somehow superfluous or that their unskilled, uneducated status justifies excluding their entire nationality seems rather bizarre.

You can of course argue that you need more skilled and educated workers, but this is not a zero-sum game.

I'm not arguing excluding their entire nationality. That's little more than a strawman. I'm saying we need less of them and more of skilled, educated people who will fill the roles we most need and who won't drain our welfare system and our education system.

[Zapato]

It kind of is, though. If those people have been a net gain for your society, arguing that they're somehow superfluous or that their unskilled, uneducated status justifies excluding their entire nationality seems rather bizarre.

You can of course argue that you need more skilled and educated workers, but this is not a zero-sum game.

I'm not arguing excluding their entire nationality. That's little more than a strawman. I'm saying we need less of them and more of skilled, educated people who will fill the roles we most need and who won't drain our welfare system and our education system.

The US economy needs more low-skilled immigrants

The new labor market data shows a lot of unfilled jobs that require college degrees — about 1 million in the professional business service sector. That includes lawyers, consultants, and computer programmers. But there are even more open jobs that don’t require that much education. That includes retail, hotel, and restaurant jobs. There’s also high demand for home health aides to care for aging baby boomers.

These are the kinds of jobs that low-skilled immigrants, often from Latin America, have long helped to fill. But Trump’s restrictions on immigration threaten to make the labor shortage worse. Since taking office, his administration has tried to scale back nearly every avenue of legal immigration, ignoring the high demand for unskilled immigrant workers, even at his own golf clubs.

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/18/18270916/labor-shortage-workers-us

[San Lumen]

The silence by Republicans on these racist remarks speak volumes. They either secretly agree with his comments for the most part and have truly embraced become the party of whites only or they think its a winning strategy for them which is even more reprehensible

[Rojava Free State]

And yet they keep electing racists. And coming out in support of racists when they get arrested for doing racist shit. Funny, that.

No, you have just been tricked into thinking they are racists by people who want race to be the defining issue of American politics. Stop giving the real racists that kind of power. Do what Morgan Freeman says, and stop talking about it.

Tricked into thinking they are racists? When they traffic in racist iconography like Steve king or trump when he talks about immigration, I can see why people call them racist

[San Lumen]

No, you have just been tricked into thinking they are racists by people who want race to be the defining issue of American politics. Stop giving the real racists that kind of power. Do what Morgan Freeman says, and stop talking about it.

Tricked into thinking they are racists? When they traffic in racist iconography like Steve king or trump when he talks about immigration, I can see why people call them racist

Republicans have made it very clear they only care about white America and rural america. I think its only a matter of time before a GOP governor says they will ignore a major city during a disaster or major event.

[Rojava Free State]

Are you actually going to read my post, are you just going to call me the most overused word in politics of the last four years or so? I, like most average people of my political affiliation, do not give two craps about whether someone is black, white, yellow, brown, or heck, even purple. There are plenty of white congresspeople I can't stand either: Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, et cetera. If the four congresspeople Trump insulted had been white, it would have made exactly zero difference to me, hence my comment that his comments were "a bit harsh" (used in the euphemistic sense). Race, which I believe to be an oversimplification of ethnicity and human variation in general anyway, doesn't change whether someone is a lunatic, or whether he/she is worthy of being called out on his or her lunacy. Seriously, the race card doesn't need to be played every ten minutes every time Trump makes a comment, and manufactured outrage solves exactly nothing.

And yet you're consistently downplaying racist abuse. Nobody here is being called out for lunacy: they're being racially abused. The criticism being leveled here is "black people bad", not "this particular person has bad policies".

Black man bad, brown man bad. White man good. Orange man god.

This is literally the argument

[Rio Cana]

I'm not arguing excluding their entire nationality. That's little more than a strawman. I'm saying we need less of them and more of skilled, educated people who will fill the roles we most need and who won't drain our welfare system and our education system.

The US economy needs more low-skilled immigrants

The new labor market data shows a lot of unfilled jobs that require college degrees — about 1 million in the professional business service sector. That includes lawyers, consultants, and computer programmers. But there are even more open jobs that don’t require that much education. That includes retail, hotel, and restaurant jobs. There’s also high demand for home health aides to care for aging baby boomers.

These are the kinds of jobs that low-skilled immigrants, often from Latin America, have long helped to fill. But Trump’s restrictions on immigration threaten to make the labor shortage worse. Since taking office, his administration has tried to scale back nearly every avenue of legal immigration, ignoring the high demand for unskilled immigrant workers, even at his own golf clubs.

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/18/18270916/labor-shortage-workers-us

The US has been having a shortage of workers that like to pick fruit, clean hotels or process chicken. That is the result of chasing out the low wage Mexicans. So instead of doubling or tripling the salaries to get more mainland US citizens into taking those job (which would most likely double or triple the price of food or services) they have been trying to recruit in the US territories like PR. where the minimum wage is 7.25. The list of local work available tends to be very short while the list of farm work in the US tends to be very long. Not sure how many people in the territories actual want to pick fruit, process chickens or clean rooms.

[Nova Cyberia]

I'm not arguing excluding their entire nationality. That's little more than a strawman. I'm saying we need less of them and more of skilled, educated people who will fill the roles we most need and who won't drain our welfare system and our education system.

The US economy needs more low-skilled immigrants

The new labor market data shows a lot of unfilled jobs that require college degrees — about 1 million in the professional business service sector. That includes lawyers, consultants, and computer programmers. But there are even more open jobs that don’t require that much education. That includes retail, hotel, and restaurant jobs. There’s also high demand for home health aides to care for aging baby boomers.

These are the kinds of jobs that low-skilled immigrants, often from Latin America, have long helped to fill. But Trump’s restrictions on immigration threaten to make the labor shortage worse. Since taking office, his administration has tried to scale back nearly every avenue of legal immigration, ignoring the high demand for unskilled immigrant workers, even at his own golf clubs.

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/18/18270916/labor-shortage-workers-us

Is there a shortage of unskilled workers in the US? Or is it just people not wanting to work these jobs for shit wages?

If the wages were higher then I'd wager more people would be willing.

[Bear Stearns]

Given that a recent terrorist just claimed some of these people as an inspiration, he might have a point.

[San Lumen]

Given that a recent terrorist just claimed some of these people as an inspiration, he might have a point.

Whatever that person did no matter who they support is totally unacceptable. Terrorism is never ok

[Bear Stearns]

The US economy needs more low-skilled immigrants

The new labor market data shows a lot of unfilled jobs that require college degrees — about 1 million in the professional business service sector. That includes lawyers, consultants, and computer programmers. But there are even more open jobs that don’t require that much education. That includes retail, hotel, and restaurant jobs. There’s also high demand for home health aides to care for aging baby boomers.

These are the kinds of jobs that low-skilled immigrants, often from Latin America, have long helped to fill. But Trump’s restrictions on immigration threaten to make the labor shortage worse. Since taking office, his administration has tried to scale back nearly every avenue of legal immigration, ignoring the high demand for unskilled immigrant workers, even at his own golf clubs.

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/18/18270916/labor-shortage-workers-us

The US has been having a shortage of workers that like to pick fruit, clean hotels or process chicken. That is the result of chasing out the low wage Mexicans.

Those are artificial jobs that wouldn't exist as they do in a fair labor market where employers in these industries had to pay Americans in accordance with federal labor laws.

We don't need this low wage labor, we've just become accustomed to exploitation.