Trump stirs up the nativist pot (again)

[Kvatchdom]

To rephrase what I said earlier, if a doctor diagnoses a patient with cancer and honestly tells the patient that they are severely ill, that doesn't mean the doctor hates the patient.

Yeah, but if the doctor tells them "you're a violent oppressor and your very existence is built upon racism" then he probably does hate you.

You just described the US perfectly there, nicely done. Now just remove the quotes.

[Bear Stearns]

No, I think he's saying that only shitting on the country calls into question how much you actually care for it. If your whole platform is basically, "this place is awful!" then it's not a stretch to say you hate the country.

To rephrase what I said earlier, if a doctor diagnoses a patient with cancer and honestly tells the patient that they are severely ill, that doesn't mean the doctor hates the patient.

If they doctor tells the patient that the cancer defines who he is and because of having cancer, he is now a worthless piece of shit, then yeah, the doctor probably does hate the patient.

[ECKU]

Yeah, but if the doctor tells them "you're a violent oppressor and your very existence is built upon racism" then he probably does hate you.

You just described the US perfectly there, nicely done. Now just remove the quotes.

Are you American yourself?

[Kvatchdom]

You just described the US perfectly there, nicely done. Now just remove the quotes.

Are you American yourself?

No, I'm finnish with family mostly from southern Europe and the middle east.

[ECKU]

Are you American yourself?

No, I'm finnish with family mostly from southern Europe and the middle east.

Lol yeah, I literally just looked at your sig a little while ago, idk why I asked that question

[Duvniask]

They're elected to represent a constituency and to use the powers vested in them for the advancement of political aims. They're not in Congress to suck the dick of patriotism and talk endlessly about how much they love the country and how great it is and blah blah blah, although some politicians do that, usually out of opportunism.

Yes, and she does such a wonderful job representing her constituency by shitting all over the very country they reside in. What a wonderful job she's done.

Assuming her constituency had a fair understanding of her views, a majority of them, or at least the ones that voted, agree with her.

You've yet to explain why she "hates" the country so damn much, however.

Many Americans are stupidly in love with their own country and thus blind to its faults.

You know, recognizing the faults in something is part of loving it.

And then there are people like Omar who are purely interested in its faults.

Politics is rarely about how well things are going. There's always a problem somewhere, whichever side you're on.

"Far-left"

In terms of what you linked to, the former is pretty cringy and bad, but the latter is some weak sauce shit; it seems more like an accounting problem than anything serious. If you held every politician to this standard, Ilhan Omar should probably be the least of your concern.

Ah, yes. The deflector shield has been raised once.

"All politicians suck so why are so you mad at this one sucking?"

Because the inconsistency with which you apply you anger means that you're dishonest and a partisan hack.

I often feel inclined to hate your country too, to be quite honest with you.

Your personal experience is nothing compared to the millions upon millions of people America has put under its foot, both past and present; the regimes (including democratic ones) toppled, the American-backed dictatorships, the death squads, the wars, all of it. And at home, millions of people in poverty, people bankrupted by medical bills, high rent, etc. etc. I could go on.

Honestly, judging by the amount of commies here we really didn't topple enough governments, tbh.

Really, this is your response?

Fuck off.

[Liriena]

BUT SHE'S SO MEAN AND NEGATIVE ABOUT IT!!!!! SHE HATES MURRIKA!!

Do you ever get tired of being obnoxious? I'm trying to discuss things in good faith and the best you can manage is to post this crap. How is this meant to facilitate good faith discussion?

We can have a good faith discussion while also having some fun... and your argument is inherently funny.

[Liriena]

The fact that American nationalism, in practice, is basically a really bizarre religion built around empty abstractions and the idolatry of shallow symbols is pretty funny, actually.

Americanness, as it has existed since the end of World War II, is very much a proposition nation (much like the so-called "Soviet" or Yugoslav nationalities).

Outside of these symbols and maybe the English language (increasingly less so), what common heritage or culture is there to bind US citizens together?

Fearful admiration for William T. Sherman?

[Kvatchdom]

No, I'm finnish with family mostly from southern Europe and the middle east.

Lol yeah, I literally just looked at your sig a little while ago, idk why I asked that question

It happens

[Internationalist Bastard]

Even Fox is saying this was a dumb move from the president

[Bear Stearns]

Americanness, as it has existed since the end of World War II, is very much a proposition nation (much like the so-called "Soviet" or Yugoslav nationalities).

Outside of these symbols and maybe the English language (increasingly less so), what common heritage or culture is there to bind US citizens together?

Fearful admiration for William T. Sherman?

Most Americans don't even know who he is.

There are people who think we fought the Germans in the Civil War.

[ECKU]

Even Fox is saying this was a dumb move from the president

When your own main base goes against you you know you done effed up.

Fearful admiration for William T. Sherman?

Most Americans don't even know who he is.

There are people who think we fought the Germans in the Civil War.

I was gonna say "are you effing serious lmbo" but actually I'm not that surprised.

[Vistulange]

What?

Why does Israel have an Aliyah law? What matters for Israel isn't where one was born or what citizenship one has but whether one is Jewish.

Same for other republics.

And yet, Israel still has issues determining who is a Jew and who is not a Jew for the purposes of the Law of Return. You see, the text of the Law of Return initially did not have any clauses determining who a Jew was, nor any clause defining who would determine who a Jew was. Article 5, stating "[t]he Minister of Immigration is charged with the implementation of this Law and may make regulations as to any matter relating to such implementation and also as to the grant of oleh's visas and oleh's certificates to minors up to the age of 18 years" only empowers the relevant minister for the issuing of oleh's visas, not defining who is a Jew.

The Law of Return was amended in 1970, after the "Brother Daniel Case", adding in Sections 4A and 4B, explicitly denying "the rights of a Jew ... [and] the rights of an oleh" to a person who has been a Jew and has voluntarily changed his religion". Moreover, the Population Registration Law was amended in the same bill, with one section being added: "A person shall not be registered as a Jew by ethnic affiliation or religion if a notification under this Law or another entry in the Registry or a public document indicates that he is not a Jew."

Notice "...a Jew by ethnic affiliation or religion...", emphasis mine. In Israel, the designation for either is done by separate authorities, namely the Ministry of the Interior for the former and the Chief Rabbinate for the latter. This causes problems, as the Chief Rabbinate does not consider Conservative or Reform conversions to conform to the halakha, but the Interior Ministry counts these converts as Jews, with the Shoshanna Miller Case in 1980 seeing a Reform Jew being refused Jewish registration by the Chief Rabbinate, followed by the Israeli Supreme Court ordering the Interior Ministry to register Miller as a Jew. Earlier, the Benjamin Shalit Case - involving a marriage between Shalit - who was an atheist and an Israeli citizen - and an atheist Scottish woman, both of whom considered themselves a part of the Jewish nation, but not of the religion. The Interior Ministry had intended to register the Shalits' religion and ethnicity as blanks on their registrations, to which the Israeli Supreme Court had ordered otherwise: The Shalits' registration was to be blank in religion, but "Jew" in regards to "ethnicity".

So, overall, Jewishness and the Law of Return, and everything connected to it such as the question of "who is a Jew" is highly political and open to debate in Israel itself. It's not a very good example of showcasing a society in which your "ethnicity/religion" matters, "not where you were born or what citizenship you have", both due to the nature of Judaism - in that it's a literally unique case in which religion and ethnicity are intertwined - and due to the debates and political questions arising from the Law of Return, the role of the Chief Rabbinate in Israeli politics and society, and the role of the Orthodox compared to the Conservative and Reform.

[Liriena]

Even Fox is saying this was a dumb move from the president

Yeah, but down here in NSG, we're all rebels and we like having the worst opinions.

[Nova Cyberia]

Even Fox is saying this was a dumb move from the president

Yeah, but down here in NSG, we're all rebels and we like having the worst opinions.

Don't we, though?

[Liriena]

Yeah, but down here in NSG, we're all rebels and we like having the worst opinions.

Don't we, though?

We've had some truly out there threads over the years so... yeah.

[Bear Stearns]

Most Americans don't even know who he is.

There are people who think we fought the Germans in the Civil War.

I was gonna say "are you effing serious lmbo" but actually I'm not that surprised.

A large number of "Americans" don't even identify with the Revolutionary fellas, so it's not shocking people would be apathetic at best on the Civil War.

We do not have a nation. The US is a multiethnic, polyglot stranger-in-a-stranger land, atomized materialist empire.

[EastKekistan]

I was gonna say "are you effing serious lmbo" but actually I'm not that surprised.

A large number of "Americans" don't even identify with the Revolutionary fellas, so it's not shocking people would be apathetic at best on the Civil War.

We do not have a nation. The US is a multiethnic, polyglot stranger-in-a-stranger land, atomized materialist empire.

Singapore is one. America on ther hand isn't because it is hard to argue that Detroit is in an atomized, materialist empire.

The only parts of America that is like that are the coastal elite areas.

[Bear Stearns]

A large number of "Americans" don't even identify with the Revolutionary fellas, so it's not shocking people would be apathetic at best on the Civil War.

We do not have a nation. The US is a multiethnic, polyglot stranger-in-a-stranger land, atomized materialist empire.

Singapore is one. America on ther hand isn't because it is hard to argue that Detroit is in an atomized, materialist empire.

The only parts of America that is like that are the coastal elite areas.

You mean the parts of America where most people live and basically set the cultural zeitgeist? Yeah, they're atomized, soulless imperial outposts.

[Nova Cyberia]

Singapore is one. America on ther hand isn't because it is hard to argue that Detroit is in an atomized, materialist empire.

The only parts of America that is like that are the coastal elite areas.

You mean the parts of America where most people live and basically set the cultural zeitgeist? Yeah, they're atomized, soulless imperial outposts.

Well, they are fairly soulless a lot of the time.

[Ghost Land]

"brown lady says bad things about my country, not allowed"

Nevermind if anything she says is true or not, nevermind if America's full of injustice and misery, she's not allowed to be critical, just because it's better than where she was born (Somalia).

There are also plenty of good things about this country which she never speaks about, because she's not actually interested in unifying Americans.

Her being a piece of shit has nothing to do with her being brown. She just happens to be a brown piece of shit.

With this line of reasoning, we can never criticize anything in our society, because it's not "as bad" as somewhere else. It's nonsense. Divorce yourself from this view.

Oh, you can criticize. But there's a fairly fine line between criticism and just shitting all over something.

But I get it. America bad. Brown lady good.

Exactly what I was trying to say on page 2, but I got called the R word (racist) for saying that.

[EastKekistan]

Singapore is one. America on ther hand isn't because it is hard to argue that Detroit is in an atomized, materialist empire.

The only parts of America that is like that are the coastal elite areas.

You mean the parts of America where most people live and basically set the cultural zeitgeist? Yeah, they're atomized, soulless imperial outposts.

Detroit? It is not an imperial outpost. Instead it is basically Kinshasa transplanted to North America.

[EastKekistan]

You mean the parts of America where most people live and basically set the cultural zeitgeist? Yeah, they're atomized, soulless imperial outposts.

Well, they are fairly soulless a lot of the time.

Because they are actually successful self-interest maximizers? Lmao.

[Bear Stearns]

You mean the parts of America where most people live and basically set the cultural zeitgeist? Yeah, they're atomized, soulless imperial outposts.

Well, they are fairly soulless a lot of the time.

You can't have a sense of rootedness and identity when everyone is from somewhere else and has no social bonds because they don't have anything in common with those around them.

[Bear Stearns]

Well, they are fairly soulless a lot of the time.

Because they are actually successful self-interest maximizers? Lmao.

I wouldn't say that's necessarily a good thing. The whole world doesn't need to be as commercialized as Manhattan.