Should undocumented US migrants enjoy 2nd Amendment rights?

[Pyta]

Hence the present "every immigrant is at least half-terrorist" mentality among disturbingly significant swathes of the American population.

I don't think I understand...how is not allowing those who are here illegally being denied the right to own a firearm just like anyone else who breaks the law some form xenophobic sentiment regarding immigrants?

I've had three speeding tickets and they still let me have guns.

[Telconi]

Muh "gUN sHoW LoOphOLE" is a perfect example of why you can never compromise with anti-gun fanatics. They will ban guns larger than .50 cal and then call it a loophole when you can still buy guns smaller than .50 cal.

I remember when they called the Assault Weapons Ban of 1994 a loophole, and then started advocating banning semi autos and handguns entirely. Cuz complying with the law is a fucking loophole somehow .

Bullet buttons?

[Kernen]

Hence the present "every immigrant is at least half-terrorist" mentality among disturbingly significant swathes of the American population.

I don't think I understand...how is not allowing those who are here illegally being denied the right to own a firearm just like anyone else who breaks the law some form xenophobic sentiment regarding immigrants?

Fundamental rights require due process to terminate. Illegal aliens are protected by due process. Until they're demonstrably illegal and subject to a hearing, they've a right to own firearms.

[Free Arabian Nation]

I remember when they called the Assault Weapons Ban of 1994 a loophole, and then started advocating banning semi autos and handguns entirely. Cuz complying with the law is a fucking loophole somehow .

Bullet buttons?

Weren't those created just to appease some dumb Californian gun law?

[Telconi]

Bullet buttons?

Weren't those created just to appease some dumb Californian gun law?

Yes, specifically written into the law. And then attacked as a "loophole".

And people wonder why they're not trusted.

[Minachia]

I'd chose "Yes, so they can defend themselves against a tyrannical government" only insofar as that government is the one they came from, so that they can maybe remove some of the issues that drove them to illegally migrate to the US in the first place. Although fixing poverty in their homelands should come before that. But I digress.

Within the US, however, they shouldn't because they have, by definition, broken the law; a law, which, if they were to oppose with weapons, would make them foreign invaders under every definition of the word.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

This is it; I finally found it: the dumbest thing I've ever had to read on NSG.

Why I haven't read something so incredibly asinine and absurd since that Finnish Nationalist Hibbostania proposed sinking 90% of Russia into the ocean just because Russians lived there and he didn't like them.

OP, I tip my hat off to you for this. Truly.

[Duhon]

Hence the present "every immigrant is at least half-terrorist" mentality among disturbingly significant swathes of the American population.

that’s what a 9/11-like event usually does to large portions of the population, like it or not

Wouldn’t say it’s a “disturbingly significant” amount of Americans, though anymore. That just sounds like ignorance.

I say "disturbingly significant" because... well... have you seen Trump? Or even Miller. Just Stephen Miller.

Or, in clearer terms: they're in the political ascendancy.

[Chernoslavia]

I remember when they called the Assault Weapons Ban of 1994 a loophole, and then started advocating banning semi autos and handguns entirely. Cuz complying with the law is a fucking loophole somehow .

Bullet buttons?

Oh no, now since 2016 rifles with bullet buttons are now considered assault weapon thus banned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6rWpqWSnWY

[Pyta]

bullet buttons are absolutely a loophole.

The law they're a loophole for is dumb as hell but you can't pretend they're not a loophole around the intent of the law.

[Telconi]

Bullet buttons?

Oh no, now since 2016 rifles with bullet buttons are now considered assault weapon thus banned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6rWpqWSnWY

Yes I am aware.

[Telconi]

bullet buttons are absolutely a loophole.

The law they're a loophole for is dumb as hell but you can't pretend they're not a loophole around the intent of the law.

Yes you can, given that they're specifically coded in the law.

[Kernen]

bullet buttons are absolutely a loophole.

The law they're a loophole for is dumb as hell but you can't pretend they're not a loophole around the intent of the law.

It's not a loophole when it was bargained-for consideration for concessions.

[Highever]

I don't think I understand...how is not allowing those who are here illegally being denied the right to own a firearm just like anyone else who breaks the law some form xenophobic sentiment regarding immigrants?

Fundamental rights require due process to terminate. Illegal aliens are protected by due process. Until they're demonstrably illegal and subject to a hearing, they've a right to own firearms.

This is true, and I never said otherwise. But if they are found to be illegal then if they had a gun, wouldn't there be further charges for that as well?

[UIJ]

I don't think I understand...how is not allowing those who are here illegally being denied the right to own a firearm just like anyone else who breaks the law some form xenophobic sentiment regarding immigrants?

I've had three speeding tickets and they still let me have guns.

Speeding isn’t a felony.

that’s what a 9/11-like event usually does to large portions of the population, like it or not

Wouldn’t say it’s a “disturbingly significant” amount of Americans, though anymore. That just sounds like ignorance.

I say "disturbingly significant" because... well... have you seen Trump? Or even Miller. Just Stephen Miller.

Or, in clearer terms: they're in the political ascendancy.

Just because they’re in office doesn’t mean their supporters support *everything* they say/do/enact/whatever.

I supported Obama, however I didn’t agree with him on quite a few things, for example.

[Pyta]

I've had three speeding tickets and they still let me have guns.

Speeding isn’t a felony.

Neither is being undocumented

[The Two Jerseys]

Speeding isn’t a felony.

Neither is being undocumented

But speeders will at least pass a background check...

[UIJ]

Speeding isn’t a felony.

Neither is being undocumented

But it is illegal, and quite different than being here legally and driving real fast?

[Liriena]

Hence the present "every immigrant is at least half-terrorist" mentality among disturbingly significant swathes of the American population.

I don't think I understand...how is not allowing those who are here illegally being denied the right to own a firearm just like anyone else who breaks the law some form xenophobic sentiment regarding immigrants?

For one, being an undocumented immigrant is, in and of itself, a victimless crime. And it's not even a felony.

[Nakena]

Absolutly not.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

A well regulated militia is necessarily made up of citizens who are fully political enfranchised in the republic. This tradition dates back to the Roman Republic and I am pretty sure thats the way how the founders intended it.

In that context, citizenship is also granted to people who serve in the US Military. So if they want to go that route they should join the military.

Service guarantees citizenship and thus also the right to bear arms.

[Liriena]

Of course.

As my buddy Karl once said:

(Image)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumpenproletariat

Criminals, along with vagrants, prostitutes, etc. are not "the workers" under Marx.

Good thing I don't take everything Marx ever said as unquestionable holy scripture.

[Highever]

Speeding isn’t a felony.

Neither is being undocumented

Illegal entry can be. Not to mention it is hard to run a background check on someone with no background to check.

[Liriena]

Neither is being undocumented

But it is illegal, and quite different than being here legally

About as different as driving with an expired license, at least in the case of a plurality of cases. A significant number of undocumented immigrants only overstayed their visas.

[UIJ]

I don't think I understand...how is not allowing those who are here illegally being denied the right to own a firearm just like anyone else who breaks the law some form xenophobic sentiment regarding immigrants?

For one, being an undocumented immigrant is, in and of itself, a victimless crime. And it's not even a felony.

Speeding is also a victimless crime. A lot of crimes can be victimless. Doesn’t mean they aren’t a crime.

[Duhon]

Absolutly not.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

A well regulated militia is necessarily made up of citizens who are fully political enfranchised in the republic. This tradition dates back to the Roman Republic and I am pretty sure thats the way how the founders intended it.

In that context, citizenship is also granted to people who serve in the US Military. So if they want to go that route they should join the military.

Service guarantees citizenship and thus also the right to bear arms.

Except that's not what's happening. Presumably you haven't heard of immigrant soldiers being quietly discharged from their posts recently?

Here you go.