Prevent and why it's okay for young Muslims to be radical.

[Nakena]

I don’t support Islam because they only allow one god.

Not that the other Gods may care what Islam allows or not.

[Jolthig]

And taliban are the same people that massacred my people in 2010. My heart aches for those Taliban kill everyday

Anyone who does not sympathize with their victims, and those left behind with a hole in their hearts and souls, must be monsters.

The thing that makes me sad more is the fact that my Khalifa cried during his dua when he made his speech condemning the attacks in Lahore. I get zealous when it comes to the Khalifa of Ahmadiyya so it makes me sad too to see the extent of the Lahore attacks nearly a decade ago, and plus other Taliban attacks.

Whoever advocates for Taliban, I am willing to have a theological, scholarly, and religious debate with on the condition that my opponents especially Al Mumtahanah do not resort to whataboutisms, attacking the founder of my community or committing the fallacy of appeal to hypocrisy. In turn, I will discuss allegations against Mirza Ghulam Ahmad in IDT separately.

And Amin, I'll have to be a bit more frank with you on some of the misleading terms you use. One of things you may lack in your debating skills is rhetoric. Each audience is different and has their own mindset, comprehension, and views. If you outright say I support jihadism, you're basically calling yourself a terrorist according to the understanding of the audience. Also you lack understanding of certain linguistics and the way neologisms are put together. Although I agree with you that jihadism is a misleading word, it is clear that it refers to extremist groups and not the true jihad. Please refrain from making yourself sound like an extremist to the audience if you understand rhetoric. If my previous warnings, and even me defending you from allegations in IDT didn't/don't work, then I feel forced to take a more aggressive and frank role in correcting you and debating you on some of the terms you use. I do this also because you seem to make Islam look bad with some of the things you say. Of course, we should always be bold in our preaching and I dont care what people think of Islam or its injunctions either as I demonstrate on many occasions, but we also have to be truthful in what we say. We cannot say falsehoods or misleading things. Not that you're intentionally lying but you have tendency to misuse words a lot, and that is not what Dawah is meant for. Try to study rhetoric more, brother.

[Infernal Sodality]

I don’t support Islam because they only allow one god.

Not that the other Gods may care what Islam allows or not.

I care.

[ECKU]

Islamic international banking is rising/being introduced. There are already local Islamic banks and in the US, there's an Islamic real estate company called Guidance Residential.

And?

Do you think they do not need to follow the same laws as other businesses while in America?

They're business practices don't break any kufr laws so there's no problem.

Correct, but a Muslim should still be tried in a Shari'ah court. The kufr courts that we live under do not enact true justice, as true justice is only from Allah SWT. Imo, Muslims should be tried only under Shari'ah courts, or at least have the present courts have Shari'ah guidelines alongside the kufr guidelines.

Then how about moving to a country that HAS them? Why not live your perfect life with your perfect religion under your perfect courts and laws in a country that already operates the way you say it should be? Why would you want to be surrounded by unbelievers and injustice when the solution is so simple a toddler could figure it out?

Please show me where I said anything about my life being perfect or a Shari'ah court being perfect.

Put your money where your mouth is. Go where there IS your beloved Sharia law and non-kufr courts. Leave other people and their secular existences out of your utopia.

Please show me where I said anything about a utopia.

Here is the utter hypocrisy of it -- you won't. Because you don't want to live in those countries. Look at how you've been arguing that this isn't REAL Islam, that isn't REAL Islam -- but you want to change non-Islamic countries to Islamic law. Well, f*ck that very much.

Actually I said it wasn't proper Shari'ah. So that's not hypocritical at all.

All you've done is convince people who were at least neutral and willing to give you a hearing that preventing young Muslim men from becoming radicalized is critical to the safety and security of people in their own homes

I.....agree? Like, who wouldn't agree to de-redicalization?

and convinced the people who spout that Islam is a violent religion incapable of living peacefully with non-believers that they are absolutely correct.

Since when did supporting Shari'ah in Dar al-kufr mean that Al-Islam is a violent religion?

Congratulations.

Thank you

Terrorists. Which, in the case of Al-Qaeda, yes, a military I think.

Really? Children. Men and women going to work? Those are terrorists?

You seriously take the cake.

What?

You and your sources have no *ucking credibility here. You lost any semblence of it when you defended "Islamic" slavery and violent jihad.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=462608&p=35939384#p35939384

Bombs are a tool in all wars.

Sure, but if the rules of jihad allegedly say you can't even harm your enemy's property, then jihadis can't use car bombs, because they inherently destroy the enemy's property.

And that's saying nothing of the fact that killing innocent civilians is always inherently bad.

Correct, they shouldn't be using car bombs or any kind of weaponry that has too high of a risk of innocent death. If they were actually committed to a jihaad they'd take note of this.

There are no rules for being a politician. There are rules for jihaad.

Which apparently includes flying airplanes full of people into buildings of civilians.

I won't include the one that hit the Pentagon as at least that supposedly follows the rules somewhat. It was a military target ---

Oh except the people on that plane too, were civilians. And the one that went down in that iield in Pennsylvania.

What a disgusting attitude and a disgusting religion to allow that, since you're saying that's what Islam allows.

And do NOT say, "but they weren't REALLY Muslims." Do not. They were. Apparently the type that you applaud, rather than the ones who live peacefully side by side with other religions RIGHT NOW in NY.

Hideous, disgusting apology for the world YOU are outlining as your future utopia, because supporting jihad is supporting that, no matter WHAT you protest.

Well now I can see why the mods banned me.

Which apparently includes flying airplanes full of people into buildings of civilians.

I won't include the one that hit the Pentagon as at least that supposedly follows the rules somewhat. It was a military target ---

Oh except the people on that plane too, were civilians. And the one that went down in that iield in Pennsylvania.

What a disgusting attitude and a disgusting religion to allow that, since you're saying that's what Islam allows.

And do NOT say, "but they weren't REALLY Muslims." Do not. They were. Apparently the type that you applaud, rather than the ones who live peacefully side by side with other religions RIGHT NOW in NY.

Hideous, disgusting apology for the world YOU are outlining as your future utopia, because supporting jihad is supporting that, no matter WHAT you protest.

He tries to claim that really terrible jihadists like ISIS aren't Muslims

That's false.

but then hates on liberal Muslims as well

Correct, vehemently oppose those who put so much bid'ah in their religion they might as well form a new one.

and wants sharia.

Correct

A sharia state inherently is a violent state, because the punishment for not obeying sharia law is at best torture and at worst death.

Torture is Haraam

Sharia law when practiced in full leads to mass death and horror

False

Yeah, that's effed up. If they wanna talk about Wahhaabi terrorism they should find a different word go use instead of highjacking a word that has nothing to do with what they're talking about.

The same word that is used by the same people committing the crimes?
No. Sorry. If they call it jihad and you have already said that in jihad you can attack and kill others who are 'enemies of Islam', then tomato tomahto, it's jihad.

You really don't know what jihaad is, do you?

It doesn't make sense. If you don't believe in Western values, why defend something on the basis of a Western value you clearly regard as spurious? How long are you going to opportunistically take advantage of Western laws to advocate for their demise?

And even worse, their demise within western nations. I'm honestly offended that people legit think it's alright to show up in Europe or America and demand Europeans or Americans conform to Islamic standards of living. If that isn't imperialism then I don't know what is. Keep sharia in a place where most people actually support it

Imperialism would be foriegn national support on a large scale. That's not happening.

Well one tip, there was no such thing as the word, jihadism in the Prophet's time

There was no such word as googled either, what's your point?

Does anyone else think this is getting into IDT territory?

No, and stop trying desperately to derail the thread by continually posting that.

A mod supporting potential threadjacking is some ironic comedy right there.

I really really think we need to build the wall between church and state ten feet higher just so this nightmarish sharia apocalypse could never possibly come true

Btw he may have meant al qaeda were terrorists but idk. He may have meant the innocent people killed

Al Qaeda were not in the buildings. People going to work, and schoolchildren, were.

Some fu*king military that is.

Do you not think it fits the definition of a military?

What do you think of Ahmadiyya's stance on jihad? We aren't allowed to rise up against governments that allow us to practice our faith and since we have the ability to migrate to nations that allow us to practice if we are oppressed?

To be very clear, I am not speaking of all Muslims. I live and work alongside men, women and children who are not supporters to the violent jihad ECKU continually espouses.

Pretty sure I haven't talked about lesser jihaad that much.

You might want to rethink that one....

Nope. Defending my religion is a part of jihaad. Ergo, I'm being a mujaahid (jihaadist).

Nice to see you once again, openly support Islamic slavery. Allah must indeed be merciful if he supports Islamic slavery.

Ftfy

But ECKU has the gall to call children, tourists, and the men and women who worked in the World Trade Center terrorists. That really takes the bloody cake.

What are you talking about????????

[ECKU]

Katganistan, there's a reason why you read the actual conversation that's going on instead of harping on 1 post:

Seriously? And who was in the Twin Towers then, the military?

Terrorists. Which, in the case of Al-Qaeda, yes, a military I think.

Terrorists.

Uh, phrasing. Unless you mean terrorists were in the Twin Towers.

Uh, phrasing. Unless you mean terrorists were in the Twin Towers.

Oh, you asked who was in the twin towers.

Well... a lot of people were in the twin towers.

Oh, you asked who was in the twin towers.

Welll... a lot of people were in the twin towers.

The post quite blatantly asked who was in the twin towers. Yes. Lots of innocent people. Including some children that were on the plane used as a weapon by Jihadist terrorists.

So yeah, turns out not only did I not understand the question,I got confused who I was talking to at 1st. I thought Highever asked who was in the Twin Towers, not you. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[EastKekistan]

OK it is yet another religious thread that just like all other religious threads goes nowhere.

[ECKU]

OK it is yet another religious thread that just like all other religious threads goes nowhere.

This thread is about Prevent, not religion.

[The Huskar Social Union]

OK it is yet another religious thread that just like all other religious threads goes nowhere.

This thread is about Prevent, not religion.

Which focuses on religious radicalism and extremism.

[EastKekistan]

OK it is yet another religious thread that just like all other religious threads goes nowhere.

This thread is about Prevent, not religion.

It is about religion for positions on it strongly correlate with and are in fact caused by religious beliefs.

[EastKekistan]

This thread is about Prevent, not religion.

Which focuses on religious radicalism and extremism.

Tell me what the hell is "religious radicalism" and what the hell is "extremism" if not mere excessive violation of the Overton Window, that is, excessive nonconformity.

My hypothesis is that it is often impossible for people with different religious views to dialogue, hence we really have to have pillarisation.

[Purpelia]

Tell me what the hell is "religious radicalism" and what the hell is "extremism" if not mere excessive violation of the Overton Window, that is, excessive nonconformity.

TLDR: Religions are just another form of political ideology. And this makes religious extremism the exact same thing as political extremism. As in, deep personal beliefs that ones ideology is superior to all others to the extent of being willing to use force including violence to bring it into power. The islamic bombers of today are no different than the communist terrorists of yesteryear or their anarchist bomb throwing ancestors.

[Vassenor]

This thread is about Prevent, not religion.

It is about religion for positions on it strongly correlate with and are in fact caused by religious beliefs.

Being Alt-Right is a religion now?

[The Huskar Social Union]

Tell me what the hell is "religious radicalism" and what the hell is "extremism" if not mere excessive violation of the Overton Window, that is, excessive nonconformity.

TLDR: Religions are just another form of political ideology. And this makes religious extremism the exact same thing as political extremism. As in, deep personal beliefs that ones ideology is superior to all others to the extent of being willing to use force including violence to bring it into power.

[EastKekistan]

Tell me what the hell is "religious radicalism" and what the hell is "extremism" if not mere excessive violation of the Overton Window, that is, excessive nonconformity.

TLDR: Religions are just another form of political ideology. And this makes religious extremism the exact same thing as political extremism. As in, deep personal beliefs that ones ideology is superior to all others to the extent of being willing to use force including violence to bring it into power.

Then most of politics in human history is political extremism.

Never knew that Assyrians were guilty of something known as "Assyrian extremism" and that Mongols were guilty of "Mongol extremism".

P.S. What do you think power even is if not violence and threat to commit it?

[Khataiy]

It is about religion for positions on it strongly correlate with and are in fact caused by religious beliefs.

Being Alt-Right is a religion now?

The terms secular religion, and personality cult exist for a reason.

[ECKU]

Tell me what the hell is "religious radicalism" and what the hell is "extremism" if not mere excessive violation of the Overton Window, that is, excessive nonconformity.

TLDR: Religions are just another form of political ideology. And this makes religious extremism the exact same thing as political extremism. As in, deep personal beliefs that ones ideology is superior to all others to the extent of being willing to use force including violence to bring it into power. The islamic bombers of today are no different than the communist terrorists of yesteryear or their anarchist bomb throwing ancestors.

Um, hi, Islamist speaking. I think Al-Islam is superior to just about everything yet I don't wanna cause unjust violence

[Purpelia]

TLDR: Religions are just another form of political ideology. And this makes religious extremism the exact same thing as political extremism. As in, deep personal beliefs that ones ideology is superior to all others to the extent of being willing to use force including violence to bring it into power.

Then most of politics in human history is political extremism.

Sigh. Here is a super 101 stupid reader version:

Reasonable politics = This is my opinion and I am willing to argue it. But I respect you right to disagree. And if there are more of your side than mine accept that I don't get to win and have it control society.
Extremist politics = This is my opinion and I am willing to do what ever it takes to make you accept it as truth and nothing but the truth up to and including killing you if you are too stubborn to change. And there is nothing you can do to change my mind either.

[EastKekistan]

It is about religion for positions on it strongly correlate with and are in fact caused by religious beliefs.

Being Alt-Right is a religion now?

It isn't. However atheism and Christianity are both religious positions and those who are against Islamic radicalism tends to hold either.

[Purpelia]

TLDR: Religions are just another form of political ideology. And this makes religious extremism the exact same thing as political extremism. As in, deep personal beliefs that ones ideology is superior to all others to the extent of being willing to use force including violence to bring it into power. The islamic bombers of today are no different than the communist terrorists of yesteryear or their anarchist bomb throwing ancestors.

Um, hi, Islamist speaking. I think Al-Islam is superior to just about everything yet I don't wanna cause unjust violence

Than you are not an extremist. By definition an extremist is one who is willing to use extreme measures to enforce his views on others. You can be a non extremist islamist just as you can be a non extremist communist, christian or anything else.

[EastKekistan]

TLDR: Religions are just another form of political ideology. And this makes religious extremism the exact same thing as political extremism. As in, deep personal beliefs that ones ideology is superior to all others to the extent of being willing to use force including violence to bring it into power. The islamic bombers of today are no different than the communist terrorists of yesteryear or their anarchist bomb throwing ancestors.

Um, hi, Islamist speaking. I think Al-Islam is superior to just about everything yet I don't wanna cause unjust violence

"Unjust" in the Islamic sense? That is, stonings are OK?

See? I know that everything is downstream from religious positions.

[EastKekistan]

Then most of politics in human history is political extremism.

Sigh. Here is a super 101 stupid reader version:

Reasonable politics = This is my opinion and I am willing to argue it. But I respect you right to disagree. And if there are more of your side than mine accept that I don't get to win and have it control society.
Extremist politics = This is my opinion and I am willing to do what ever it takes to make you accept it as truth and nothing but the truth up to and including killing you if you are too stubborn to change. And there is nothing you can do to change my mind either.

Sigh. You seem to forget how violent humans were.

[ECKU]

Um, hi, Islamist speaking. I think Al-Islam is superior to just about everything yet I don't wanna cause unjust violence

Than you are not an extremist. By definition an extremist is one who is willing to use extreme measures to enforce his views on others. You can be a non extremist islamist just as you can be a non extremist communist, christian or anything else.

Thanks, Purpelia

[ECKU]

Um, hi, Islamist speaking. I think Al-Islam is superior to just about everything yet I don't wanna cause unjust violence

"Unjust" in the Islamic sense? That is, stonings are OK?

Stonings aren't part of Al-Islam. Ans even if they were non-Muslims wouldn't be subject go them. But yes, "unjust" in the Islamic sense.

[EastKekistan]

"Unjust" in the Islamic sense? That is, stonings are OK?

Stonings aren't part of Al-Islam. Ans even if they were non-Muslims wouldn't be subject go them. But yes, "unjust" in the Islamic sense.

Then there is literally no way for you and seculars to discuss many years..for people don't agree on key terms at all.

If you define "truth" to include Islam, a Christian defines "truth" to include Christianity and an atheist defines "truth" to include atheism then since the three religious positions contradict each other everybody can honestly say "I WANT NOTHING BUT TRUTH! YOU ARE LIARS!" even though they completely disagree. That's not how dialogues work.

[Paddy O Fernature]

They're business practices don't break any kufr laws so there's no problem.

Yeah, fuck that notion. You don't get nor deserve special treatment.

Please show me where I said anything about my life being perfect or a Shari'ah court being perfect.

Kat was perfectly clear in her point to you. Stop splitting hairs here and dodging her point.

Please show me where I said anything about a utopia.

See above.

Actually I said it wasn't proper Shari'ah. So that's not hypocritical at all.

Actually, it very much is. Saying that it isn't after everything you have said here and elsewhere doesn't change that glaring red hot fact.

I.....agree? Like, who wouldn't agree to de-redicalization?

Absolutely stunning display of deliberately misrepresentation of what Kat said. I don't know how you could possibly top that....

Congratulations.

Thank you

I spoke too soon.

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=462608&p=35939384#p35939384

Stop trying to derail this thread by linking to that echo chamber. You have been told this multiple times now, fucking knock it off already.

Well now I can see why the mods banned me.

Yes, clearly it was mod bias and not the fact that you are a self admitted terrorist sympathizer and openly admits to supporting violent Jihad against "Infidels" and mass slavery. You know, viewpoints commonly held and expressed by a subset of humanity usually viewed as less then desirable.

Do you not think it fits the definition of a military?

No, and I'm pretty sure most people who still retain some form of their humanity wouldn't view them as well. Though it's nice to see that apparently, you do and that's a fantastically shitty view to hold.

Nope. Defending my religion is a part of jihaad. Ergo, I'm being a mujaahid (jihaadist).

So, your religion is now terrorism. Good to know.

Ftfy

It was perfectly fine as it was. Even then, what you "fixed" did nothing to change it's overall message, which is pretty fucking funny in of itself. lol