UK Politics Thread X: Boris' Big Bonkers Brexit Bash

[West Leas Oros 2]

How can restricting the freedom to smoke be a good thing?

For anybody else as much as 10 meters away it violates NAP. Violently.

Time for a good old fashioned Mcnuke^tm

[Eastfield Lodge]

A number of freedoms are also lost or restricted as part of leaving the EU. Fanatical state-shrinking is not in your long-term interest as it's likely to produce a popular backlash against the human misery from destroying social services that people rely on, a backlash that is likely to take far more away from you than what you're currently given up.

Your politics are hollow, impulsive and short-termist. You are taking the first thing that comes to your mind and labelling it "freedom" or "self-interest", neither considering that freedom has a multiplicity of dimensions, and your enlightened self interest is far less black and white.

It's as though you scribbled your entire program on a fag packet many years ago and have only practiced your arguments by repeatedly screaming them at the clouds.

Not a terribly persuasive set of contributions.

Also noting a true AnCap wouldn’t approve of smoking since breathing carcinogens at other people would be breaking the NAP.

Then again, GVH seems to have transcended beyond the so very clearly restrictive AnCap philosophy.

This is the same guy that wants blind people and hardened violent criminals to be allowed unlimited access to all forms of weaponry in the name persona liberty.

[Greater Loegria]

It would be so pleasant to fuck these people up by revoking Article 50.

That it would. Labour rather ought to work that into their campaign materials. Boris Johnson's backers have bet billions on Britain failing, something something patriotism, vote Labour.

Quite hard for Corbyn’s labour to flout patriotism. Not that the Tories are much better in practise but at least they can play pretend.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

That it would. Labour rather ought to work that into their campaign materials. Boris Johnson's backers have bet billions on Britain failing, something something patriotism, vote Labour.

Quite hard for Corbyn’s labour to flout patriotism. Not that the Tories are much better in practise but at least they can play pretend.

They can flout patriotism for Venezuela.

[Ifreann]

That it would. Labour rather ought to work that into their campaign materials. Boris Johnson's backers have bet billions on Britain failing, something something patriotism, vote Labour.

Quite hard for Corbyn’s labour to flout patriotism. Not that the Tories are much better in practise but at least they can play pretend.

When the money behind the Tories is betting against Britain, you don't need to work hard to seem patriotic.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

An ideology based purely on self interest is pretty shallow really.

It’s like a weird combination of “fuck you I’ve got mine” and “I do what I want”. It’s barely an ideology.

I thought he was a libertarian at one point, but his views on crime seem to remove that from the realm of possibilities. Libertarians also have an idea where one's rights ends and where another's begin, but vakolicci doesn't seem to share that view.

[Caracasus]

That it would. Labour rather ought to work that into their campaign materials. Boris Johnson's backers have bet billions on Britain failing, something something patriotism, vote Labour.

Quite hard for Corbyn’s labour to flout patriotism. Not that the Tories are much better in practise but at least they can play pretend.

Maybe 30 or 40 years ago for sure, nowdays? Not so much. That ship sailed for the conservatives quite some time ago.

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

So now can we agree that Brexit was a stupid fucking idea?

It's NSG. The one time we actually agreed on something, I sigged it.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

So now can we agree that Brexit was a stupid fucking idea?

The EU probably needs reform, but yes, the economic effects of leaving make it a stupid idea.

[Salandriagado]

Other than the dreadful stench it causes, it fills the air with tobacco smoke, which non-smokers in the area will inevitably inhale, causing damage to their health in the long term.

I think the right to smoke trumps some 'right to health' nonsense. Besides, smoking is good for national tax revenue, and people here seem to like taxes.

Yeah, no. You don't have a right to poison other people, any more than you have a right to punch other people.

And yet on Brexit you say your views are against your personal interest and you regularly support healthcare and social policies that would constrain the opportunities and likely the life expectancies of the poor. The dead and the dying are not known for possessing a wide range of choices.

Seems more like simple contrarianism than anything coherent.

Brexit is more about freedom. Wanting to get rid of the nhs, and the taxes that come with it, is self-interest.

Only in an unbelievably short-sighted way. In the long-term, it's massively detrimental to you.

I remind you again that this is 100% the fault of the Tory party.

I have not denied their part in this.

Many problems are internal and structural though. I hear all sorts of anecdotal stories about wards going out and sourcing their own blinds since official suppliers are charging a fortune.

Also the issue of medical tourism and recent arrivals being entitled to use it despite perhaps not having contributed much to it all.

Prior to the Tory party taking over, every single NHS trust was running a surplus. Today, every single one is running a deficit. This isn't "structural"; this is sabotage.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

A number of freedoms are also lost or restricted as part of leaving the EU. Fanatical state-shrinking is not in your long-term interest as it's likely to produce a popular backlash against the human misery from destroying social services that people rely on, a backlash that is likely to take far more away from you than what you're currently given up.

Your politics are hollow, impulsive and short-termist. You are taking the first thing that comes to your mind and labelling it "freedom" or "self-interest", neither considering that freedom has a multiplicity of dimensions, and your enlightened self interest is far less black and white.

It's as though you scribbled your entire program on a fag packet many years ago and have only practiced your arguments by repeatedly screaming them at the clouds.

Not a terribly persuasive set of contributions.

Also noting a true AnCap wouldn’t approve of smoking since breathing carcinogens at other people would be breaking the NAP.

Then again, GVH seems to have transcended beyond the so very clearly restrictive AnCap philosophy.

In my opinion their isn't such a thing as a right to health. If you don't like people smoking around you, go to another place: this is why pubs used to have smoking areas and non-smoking areas. Why not just let property owners choose what's allowed in their own property?

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

Also noting a true AnCap wouldn’t approve of smoking since breathing carcinogens at other people would be breaking the NAP.

Then again, GVH seems to have transcended beyond the so very clearly restrictive AnCap philosophy.

In my opinion their isn't such a thing as a right to health. If you don't like people smoking around you, go to another place: this is why pubs used to have smoking areas and non-smoking areas. Why not just let property owners choose what's allowed in their own property?

Aren't you the same person who was saying that apartments should be rented out room by room so that people could just rent out a bathroom and nothing else?

[Greater vakolicci haven]

How can restricting the freedom to smoke be a good thing?

For anybody else as much as 10 meters away it violates NAP. Violently.

I've never subscribed to the NAP. Deliberately causing violence is of course wrong, but if harm is an unintended (even if forseeable) consequence, ah well sucks to be you.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

In my opinion their isn't such a thing as a right to health. If you don't like people smoking around you, go to another place: this is why pubs used to have smoking areas and non-smoking areas. Why not just let property owners choose what's allowed in their own property?

Aren't you the same person who was saying that apartments should be rented out room by room so that people could just rent out a bathroom and nothing else?

If they want. I don't see why the state should force landlords to be a part of the health and safety agenda though. You know what you're getting when you go through the door, and as such have no right to whine about it.

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

For anybody else as much as 10 meters away it violates NAP. Violently.

I've never subscribed to the NAP. Deliberately causing violence is of course wrong, but if harm is an unintended (even if forseeable) consequence, ah well sucks to be you.

"Your Honor, I merely pulled the trigger. How was I supposed to know that doing so would fire a bullet directly into the accuser's spine?"

[Greater vakolicci haven]

I've never subscribed to the NAP. Deliberately causing violence is of course wrong, but if harm is an unintended (even if forseeable) consequence, ah well sucks to be you.

"Your Honor, I merely pulled the trigger. How was I supposed to know that doing so would fire a bullet directly into the accuser's spine?"

Some things are obvious.

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

Aren't you the same person who was saying that apartments should be rented out room by room so that people could just rent out a bathroom and nothing else?

If they want. I don't see why the state should force landlords to be a part of the health and safety agenda though. You know what you're getting when you go through the door, and as such have no right to whine about it.

Most health and safety regulations are there so that people actually do know what they're getting when they walk through the door. Landlords can lie just like anyone else.

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

"Your Honor, I merely pulled the trigger. How was I supposed to know that doing so would fire a bullet directly into the accuser's spine?"

Some things are obvious.

It's obvious that smoking causes harm. Get a better argument or stop arguing.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Some things are obvious.

It's obvious that smoking causes harm. Get a better argument or stop arguing.

Perfectly avoidable harm, by going to a venue that doesn't allow it. If the business owner chooses to allow it you don't have a right to complain when people smoke.

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

It's obvious that smoking causes harm. Get a better argument or stop arguing.

Perfectly avoidable harm, by going to a venue that doesn't allow it. If the business owner chooses to allow it you don't have a right to complain when people smoke.

And getting shot is perfectly avoidable, by going to a venue that doesn't allow it. If the business owner chooses to allow it you don't have a right to complain when people shoot you.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Perfectly avoidable harm, by going to a venue that doesn't allow it. If the business owner chooses to allow it you don't have a right to complain when people smoke.

And getting shot is perfectly avoidable, by going to a venue that doesn't allow it. If the business owner chooses to allow it you don't have a right to complain when people shoot you.

If a business owner decides to allow shooting people then nobody is going to go there, are they?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

It's obvious that smoking causes harm. Get a better argument or stop arguing.

Perfectly avoidable harm, by going to a venue that doesn't allow it. If the business owner chooses to allow it you don't have a right to complain when people smoke.

My neighbour smokes habitually on his balcony. I cannot retreat. I have no duty to retreat from my own damn home.

[Ifreann]

"Your Honor, I merely pulled the trigger. How was I supposed to know that doing so would fire a bullet directly into the accuser's spine?"

Some things are obvious.

Foreseeable, certainly, but not what I intended. Therefore, according to you, entirely your own problem.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Perfectly avoidable harm, by going to a venue that doesn't allow it. If the business owner chooses to allow it you don't have a right to complain when people smoke.

My neighbour smokes habitually on his balcony. I cannot retreat. I have no duty to retreat from my own damn home.

It's his right to smoke in his own home. You just got unlucky if you don't like it.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

My neighbour smokes habitually on his balcony. I cannot retreat. I have no duty to retreat from my own damn home.

It's his right to smoke in his own home. You just got unlucky if you don't like it.

If you smoked in the presence of asthmatic people they would be fully entitled to charge you with attempted negligent homicide. Fortunately for me I don't have asthma.