UK Politics Thread X: Boris' Big Bonkers Brexit Bash

[Liriena]

You could go full blown old school and have one of the Christian Socialist Welsh MPs go full cromwellian shit at them and scream that this nation will succeed at investing in schools, welfare, and infrastructure BECAUSE IT IS A GODLY NATION AND WE WALK HAND IN HAND WITH THE LORD WHEN WE DO SO!

Bonus points if they then flip out about parliament having too much luxurious stuff in it and command people to remove "these baubles" while tearing at the leather on the seats for being sinful.

But that might give everyone else in the country an embolism when they realize what Welsh socialism is sometimes like.

Baddass.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

I'm pretty sure McDonnell is just going to keep trying to convince them Marx was right or some shit and that's not going to fly. My bet would be one of the Welsh MPs given that they're accustomed to patriotism and nationalism rhetoric and how to fuse it with socialism.

Cool, cool, cool.

They could and probably should consider doing a bit of Peronism, discourse-wise. Be "national and popular". Hammer in the idea that their opponents are elitist, anti-patriotic traitors who despise The People and will sell The Fatherland off to the highest bidder. If our history is anything to go by, there's a lot of power in framing and marketing your political party as something other than a political party, as a broader movement that's inseparable from national and popular identity. You can get away with lots of socialism like that.

I think the job of saying how anti-British Corbyn one has been done. That horse has well and truly bolted.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

There is no reason now for the Brexit Party not to take on the Conservatives in all constituencies.

Explain?

[Ostroeuropa]

You could go full blown old school and have one of the Christian Socialist Welsh MPs go full cromwellian shit at them and scream that this nation will succeed at investing in schools, welfare, and infrastructure BECAUSE IT IS A GODLY NATION AND WE WALK HAND IN HAND WITH THE LORD WHEN WE DO SO!

Bonus points if they then flip out about parliament having too much luxurious stuff in it and command people to remove "these baubles" while tearing at the leather on the seats for being sinful.

But that might give everyone else in the country an embolism when they realize what Welsh socialism is sometimes like.

Doesn't sound too bad to me, other than perhaps the "Cromwellian" bit. I'm quite sympathetic towards Christian Socialism, at least when it's allied to a general constitutional conservatism. I would like to live in a country where Labour was dominated by Christian Socialists and social patriots whilst the Conservative Party was stacked with One Nation and High Tories.

That's the dream dude. Albeit i'd fall heavily on the patriot side of that Labour divide.

[Souseiseki]

There is no reason now for the Brexit Party not to take on the Conservatives in all constituencies.

Explain?

leave is an eternal war with leave and the conservative party are not ideologically pure enough for them

[Liriena]

There is no reason now for the Brexit Party not to take on the Conservatives in all constituencies.

I feel like the Brexit Party could have a real shot in getting more seats than UKIP ever could in the current circumstances, though I'm sure British NSers will have a better idea of it than I. So yeah.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Explain?

leave is an eternal war with leave and the conservative party are not ideologically pure enough for them

Myself and 6 other Brexit party people have just spent the past 2 hours attempting to explain to the higher ups why they shouldn't run against the tories in labour/tory marginals. They appear to be listening.

[Philjia]

The ship will sail on but the captain is lashed to the wheel and screaming.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

There is no reason now for the Brexit Party not to take on the Conservatives in all constituencies.

Explain?

Johnson can't deliver anything.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

There is no reason now for the Brexit Party not to take on the Conservatives in all constituencies.

I feel like the Brexit Party could have a real shot in getting more seats than UKIP ever could in the current circumstances, though I'm sure British NSers will have a better idea of it than I. So yeah.

The only way it could happen is if something that will never happen happened. I.e. the tories stood aside in areas where they are cancer but in where ukip did very well in 2015. Places like the smaller towns of northwest England, Yorkshire and the east midlands.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

There is no reason now for the Brexit Party not to take on the Conservatives in all constituencies.

I feel like the Brexit Party could have a real shot in getting more seats than UKIP ever could in the current circumstances, though I'm sure British NSers will have a better idea of it than I. So yeah.

So at least one.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Explain?

Johnson can't deliver anything.

He can if he gets a good majority behind him. If the tide begins to change though, and he approaches the levels that May was at near the end of her time in office I might start to agree with you.

[Souseiseki]

There is no reason now for the Brexit Party not to take on the Conservatives in all constituencies.

I feel like the Brexit Party could have a real shot in getting more seats than UKIP ever could in the current circumstances, though I'm sure British NSers will have a better idea of it than I. So yeah.

british politics is a complete meme thanks to FPTP. you can get 15% of the vote and get zero seats. the upcoming election, if the brexit party gets a lot of votes, will be a nightmare.

leave is an eternal war with leave and the conservative party are not ideologically pure enough for them

Myself and 6 other Brexit party people have just spent the past 2 hours attempting to explain to the higher ups why they shouldn't run against the tories in labour/tory marginals. They appear to be listening.

i'm sure you are

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm pretty sure McDonnell is just going to keep trying to convince them Marx was right or some shit and that's not going to fly. My bet would be one of the Welsh MPs given that they're accustomed to patriotism and nationalism rhetoric and how to fuse it with socialism.

Cool, cool, cool.

They could and probably should consider doing a bit of Peronism, discourse-wise. Be "national and popular". Hammer in the idea that their opponents are elitist, anti-patriotic traitors who despise The People and will sell The Fatherland off to the highest bidder. If our history is anything to go by, there's a lot of power in framing and marketing your political party as something other than a political party, as a broader movement that's inseparable from national and popular identity. You can get away with lots of socialism like that.

Greater Valk is right that Corbyn can't be the one to sell it. He's been too stubbornly internationalist and critical of nationalism and so on to be convincing. But if you can even remove the perception that Labour as a party is anti-nationalist, that'd go a long way to it. People will ignore a leader and vote for where their political tribe is camped, even if the leader of the party at the time isn't on board. (At least for a while, see One-Nation/High Tories voting for Thatcherites for decades). So you just need to raise the profile of Labour Nationalists and spam "Broad tent, broad tent, broad tent" when they try and claim it's a division in the party.

[Cerinda]

Just introduce some left-wing populism and left-wing nationalism and you're be all set, you can add some socialist patriotism if you want to get extra spicy

[Liriena]

I feel like the Brexit Party could have a real shot in getting more seats than UKIP ever could in the current circumstances, though I'm sure British NSers will have a better idea of it than I. So yeah.

british politics is a complete meme thanks to FPTP. you can get 15% of the vote and get zero seats. the upcoming election, if the brexit party gets a lot of votes, will be a nightmare.

Am I the only one who thinks that, because of FPTP, the Brexit Party could well spoil an election for the Tories, even with Boris Johnson?

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Cool, cool, cool.

They could and probably should consider doing a bit of Peronism, discourse-wise. Be "national and popular". Hammer in the idea that their opponents are elitist, anti-patriotic traitors who despise The People and will sell The Fatherland off to the highest bidder. If our history is anything to go by, there's a lot of power in framing and marketing your political party as something other than a political party, as a broader movement that's inseparable from national and popular identity. You can get away with lots of socialism like that.

Greater Valk is right that Corbyn can't be the one to sell it. He's been too stubbornly internationalist and critical of nationalism and so on to be convincing. But if you can even remove the perception that Labour as a party is anti-nationalist, that'd go a long way to it. People will ignore a leader and vote for where their political tribe is camped, even if the leader of the party at the time isn't on board. So you just need to raise the profile of Labour Nationalists and spam "Broad tent, broad tent, broad tent" when they try and claim it's a division in the party.

It's almost like the best way for labour to get elected is to remove Jeremy Corbyn.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

british politics is a complete meme thanks to FPTP. you can get 15% of the vote and get zero seats. the upcoming election, if the brexit party gets a lot of votes, will be a nightmare.

Am I the only one who thinks that, because of FPTP, the Brexit Party could well spoil an election for the Tories, even with Boris Johnson?

No you're not. That's why they shouldn't run in marginal seats and why the tories shouldn't run in seats they can't win.

[Liriena]

Greater Valk is right that Corbyn can't be the one to sell it. He's been too stubbornly internationalist and critical of nationalism and so on to be convincing. But if you can even remove the perception that Labour as a party is anti-nationalist, that'd go a long way to it. People will ignore a leader and vote for where their political tribe is camped, even if the leader of the party at the time isn't on board. So you just need to raise the profile of Labour Nationalists and spam "Broad tent, broad tent, broad tent" when they try and claim it's a division in the party.

It's almost like the best way for labour to get elected is to remove Jeremy Corbyn.

You will take my train-loving grampa from my cold dead hands.

[The New California Republic]

You could go full blown old school and have one of the Christian Socialist Welsh MPs go full cromwellian shit at them and scream that this nation will succeed at investing in schools, welfare, and infrastructure BECAUSE IT IS A GODLY NATION AND WE WALK HAND IN HAND WITH THE LORD WHEN WE DO SO!

Bonus points if they then flip out about parliament having too much luxurious stuff in it and command people to remove "these baubles" while tearing at the leather on the seats for being sinful.

But that might give everyone else in the country an embolism when they realize what Welsh socialism is sometimes like.

Doesn't sound too bad to me, other than perhaps the "Cromwellian" bit. I'm quite sympathetic towards Christian Socialism, at least when it's allied to a general constitutional conservatism. I would like to live in a country where Labour was dominated by Christian Socialists and social patriots whilst the Conservative Party was stacked with One Nation and High Tories.

I think if I'd kept my faith I'd have probably been Christian Socialist eventually.

[Ostroeuropa]

It's almost like the best way for labour to get elected is to remove Jeremy Corbyn.

You will take my train-loving grampa from my cold dead hands.

Tbh, he should step aside when able in favor of Starmer. Now is not the time, and if he wins that's fine, but if he doesn't win, he should step aside for Starmer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keir_Starmer

[Greater vakolicci haven]

It's almost like the best way for labour to get elected is to remove Jeremy Corbyn.

You will take my train-loving grampa from my cold dead hands.

Trains are great. Every politician who wants to win votes does trains.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

You will take my train-loving grampa from my cold dead hands.

Tbh, he should step aside when able in favor of Starmer. Now is not the time, and if he wins that's fine, but if he doesn't win, he should step aside for Starmer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keir_Starmer

I'm not sure Starmer really has what it takes. He always comes across as quite pompous to me, though he was definitely better at running the cps than whatever that was after him.

[Liriena]

Cool, cool, cool.

They could and probably should consider doing a bit of Peronism, discourse-wise. Be "national and popular". Hammer in the idea that their opponents are elitist, anti-patriotic traitors who despise The People and will sell The Fatherland off to the highest bidder. If our history is anything to go by, there's a lot of power in framing and marketing your political party as something other than a political party, as a broader movement that's inseparable from national and popular identity. You can get away with lots of socialism like that.

Greater Valk is right that Corbyn can't be the one to sell it. He's been too stubbornly internationalist and critical of nationalism and so on to be convincing. But if you can even remove the perception that Labour as a party is anti-nationalist, that'd go a long way to it. People will ignore a leader and vote for where their political tribe is camped, even if the leader of the party at the time isn't on board. (At least for a while, see One-Nation/High Tories voting for Thatcherites for decades). So you just need to raise the profile of Labour Nationalists and spam "Broad tent, broad tent, broad tent" when they try and claim it's a division in the party.

Mhmmm :3

You will take my train-loving grampa from my cold dead hands.

Tbh, he should step aside when able in favor of Starmer.

I did just read on Starmer and he looks like a pretty strong successor for Corbyn. And with high approval ratings among the Labour grassroots, so Blairites can stay mad

[Liriena]

You will take my train-loving grampa from my cold dead hands.

Trains are great. Every politician who wants to win votes does trains.

When people say that politics are aesthetics over policy, they forget that trains bring both elements together in one beautiful package.