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UK Politics Thread X: Boris' Big Bonkers Brexit Bash

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What is your favoured form of brexit?

Mays deal
28
5%
EFTA
36
6%
Some other sort of deal (please elaborate in the comments)
24
4%
Mays deal without Irish backstop
9
2%
No deal
132
23%
No deal+ (no deal minus NI and Scotland)
20
4%
I want a second referendum
208
37%
Revoke article 50 without even calling a referendum
105
19%
 
Total votes : 562

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North German Realm
Senator
 
Posts: 4494
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby North German Realm » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:20 am

I love that a discussion about the non-democratic appointing of the current British Prime Ministry, the last in a series of similarly non-democratic events that a large plurality if not an outright majority opposes publicly has turned into a echo-chamber ranting about muh "Democrazy".
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Norddeutscher Bund
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5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.

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Hamstan
Envoy
 
Posts: 306
Founded: Sep 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Hamstan » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:21 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Hamstan wrote:Your Empire is gone. Right now, your country is trying failing to hold on to what shaky ground it has left. The Empire defined your country and the world, and when the fires of war destroyed it, so too was the old world forever vanquished.


Nobody cares dude, we're trying to be a mid-level power with decent living standards and fighting off the subversive, insincere and manipulative, dystopian influence of The Marxists/The Rich/Both/Neither.

(But secretly it's both.).

I know that, you're in the same boat as everyone else in the west. What I'm saying is you lost your national identity, and it's hard to maintain a nation without one.
ALL POWER TO THE HAM KINGS, COMRADES!-Vladimir Bacon, our founder
a 5.63 civilization, according to https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=363018
IC Location: Has now expanded beyond the borders of its home universe and has constructed its own little interstellar empire in its own pocket universe
OOC: Hamstan does not reflect my views. I'm just a teenage anarchist

User avatar
Hamstan
Envoy
 
Posts: 306
Founded: Sep 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Hamstan » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:22 am

North German Realm wrote:I love that a discussion about the non-democratic appointing of the current British Prime Ministry, the last in a series of similarly non-democratic events that a large plurality if not an outright majority opposes publicly has turned into a echo-chamber ranting about muh "Democrazy".

This isn't democracy. It is only the inevitable result of democracy
ALL POWER TO THE HAM KINGS, COMRADES!-Vladimir Bacon, our founder
a 5.63 civilization, according to https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=363018
IC Location: Has now expanded beyond the borders of its home universe and has constructed its own little interstellar empire in its own pocket universe
OOC: Hamstan does not reflect my views. I'm just a teenage anarchist

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44958
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:23 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Questarian New Yorkshire wrote: asabiyyah (other spelling was the word in bm oops) isnt about islamism actually

So alternative B: You have become senile and started to have Malay words randomly inserted into your speech.

It’s the same thing that Kekistsn guy uses.
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.


Historian, of sorts.

Effortposts can be found here!

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27981
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:24 am

Abandoning East of Suez was a horrid, horrid mistake but hey whatever floats your boat in 2019 Brexit partyists.
The Holy Romangnan Empire of Ostmark
something something the sole legitimate Austria-Hungary larp'er on NS :3

MT/MagicT
The Armed Forces|Embassy Programme|The Imperial and National Anthem of the Holy Roman Empire|Characters|The Map

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Hamstan
Envoy
 
Posts: 306
Founded: Sep 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Hamstan » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:25 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Abandoning East of Suez was a horrid, horrid mistake but hey whatever floats your boat in 2019 Brexit partyists.

It was bound to happen some day
ALL POWER TO THE HAM KINGS, COMRADES!-Vladimir Bacon, our founder
a 5.63 civilization, according to https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=363018
IC Location: Has now expanded beyond the borders of its home universe and has constructed its own little interstellar empire in its own pocket universe
OOC: Hamstan does not reflect my views. I'm just a teenage anarchist

User avatar
Questarian New Yorkshire
Minister
 
Posts: 3158
Founded: Nov 08, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Questarian New Yorkshire » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:35 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Questarian New Yorkshire wrote: asabiyyah (other spelling was the word in bm oops) isnt about islamism actually

So alternative B: You have become senile and started to have Malay words randomly inserted into your speech.
its an arabic word dude
REST IN PEACE RWDT & LWDT
I'm just a poor wayfaring stranger, traveling through this world below
There is no sickness, no toil, nor danger, in that bright land to which I go
I'm going there to see my Father, and all my loved ones who've gone on
I'm only going over Jordan, I'm only going over home

I know dark clouds will gather 'round me, I know my way is hard and steep
But beauteous fields arise before me, where God's redeemed, their vigils keep

User avatar
Questarian New Yorkshire
Minister
 
Posts: 3158
Founded: Nov 08, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Questarian New Yorkshire » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:36 am

North German Realm wrote:I love that a discussion about the non-democratic appointing of the current British Prime Ministry, the last in a series of similarly non-democratic events that a large plurality if not an outright majority opposes publicly has turned into a echo-chamber ranting about muh "Democrazy".
if you think two people is an echo chamber id love to hear you describe this thread ordinarily
REST IN PEACE RWDT & LWDT
I'm just a poor wayfaring stranger, traveling through this world below
There is no sickness, no toil, nor danger, in that bright land to which I go
I'm going there to see my Father, and all my loved ones who've gone on
I'm only going over Jordan, I'm only going over home

I know dark clouds will gather 'round me, I know my way is hard and steep
But beauteous fields arise before me, where God's redeemed, their vigils keep

User avatar
An Alan Smithee Nation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7623
Founded: Apr 18, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:36 am

Apparently we like Trump and we call Boris 'Britain Trump'...
Everything is intertwinkled

User avatar
North German Realm
Senator
 
Posts: 4494
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby North German Realm » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:37 am

Hamstan wrote:
North German Realm wrote:I love that a discussion about the non-democratic appointing of the current British Prime Ministry, the last in a series of similarly non-democratic events that a large plurality if not an outright majority opposes publicly has turned into a echo-chamber ranting about muh "Democrazy".

This isn't democracy. It is only the inevitable result of democracy

So, the inevitable result of democracy is... not being democratic? Uh, no.
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North German Confederation
NationStates Flag Bracket II - 6th place!

Norddeutscher Bund
Homepage || Overview | Sovereign | Chancellor | Military | Legislature || The World
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.

User avatar
Bear Stearns
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11878
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Capitalizt

Postby Bear Stearns » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:41 am

And so now begins the creation of the Anglo Alliance. Canada, Australia, and New Zealand are invited. Common defense, free trade, freedom of movement, and a common currency adopted gradually (first US and Canada, Australia and New Zealand, etc.).

Ireland joining would be a fair compromise to the hard border, so they are invited too.

As a compromise, the capital should be Toronto.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
New York, NY 10017
Vince Vaughn

User avatar
Hamstan
Envoy
 
Posts: 306
Founded: Sep 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Hamstan » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:43 am

North German Realm wrote:
Hamstan wrote:This isn't democracy. It is only the inevitable result of democracy

So, the inevitable result of democracy is... not being democratic? Uh, no.

Things don't last forever. Power gets centralized, authority becomes unquestionable, good intentions become tainted, and organizations become corrupt. Democracy is not invincible. Over time, all democracies are corrupted to the point where calling them a democracy is ludicrous.
ALL POWER TO THE HAM KINGS, COMRADES!-Vladimir Bacon, our founder
a 5.63 civilization, according to https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=363018
IC Location: Has now expanded beyond the borders of its home universe and has constructed its own little interstellar empire in its own pocket universe
OOC: Hamstan does not reflect my views. I'm just a teenage anarchist

User avatar
North German Realm
Senator
 
Posts: 4494
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby North German Realm » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:45 am

Hamstan wrote:
North German Realm wrote:So, the inevitable result of democracy is... not being democratic? Uh, no.

Things don't last forever. Power gets centralized, authority becomes unquestionable, good intentions become tainted, and organizations become corrupt. Democracy is not invincible. Over time, all democracies are corrupted to the point where calling them a democracy is ludicrous.

That's irrelevant though. The reason democratic countries end authoritarian is because they abandon their democratic tradition for various reasons. Democracy can be maintained -to a point, at least- if democratic tradition is maintained.
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North German Confederation
NationStates Flag Bracket II - 6th place!

Norddeutscher Bund
Homepage || Overview | Sovereign | Chancellor | Military | Legislature || The World
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.

User avatar
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27981
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:47 am

Bear Stearns wrote:And so now begins the creation of the Anglo Alliance. Canada, Australia, and New Zealand are invited. Common defense, free trade, freedom of movement, and a common currency adopted gradually (first US and Canada, Australia and New Zealand, etc.).

Ireland joining would be a fair compromise to the hard border, so they are invited too.

As a compromise, the capital should be Toronto.

Gay.
The Holy Romangnan Empire of Ostmark
something something the sole legitimate Austria-Hungary larp'er on NS :3

MT/MagicT
The Armed Forces|Embassy Programme|The Imperial and National Anthem of the Holy Roman Empire|Characters|The Map

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Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58544
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:49 am

Bear Stearns wrote:And so now begins the creation of the Anglo Alliance. Canada, Australia, and New Zealand are invited. Common defense, free trade, freedom of movement, and a common currency adopted gradually (first US and Canada, Australia and New Zealand, etc.).

Ireland joining would be a fair compromise to the hard border, so they are invited too.

As a compromise, the capital should be Toronto.


If it actually happened i'd be very content. It wont ofcourse.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Bear Stearns
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11878
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Capitalizt

Postby Bear Stearns » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:49 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:And so now begins the creation of the Anglo Alliance. Canada, Australia, and New Zealand are invited. Common defense, free trade, freedom of movement, and a common currency adopted gradually (first US and Canada, Australia and New Zealand, etc.).

Ireland joining would be a fair compromise to the hard border, so they are invited too.

As a compromise, the capital should be Toronto.

Gay.


No u
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
New York, NY 10017
Vince Vaughn

User avatar
Bear Stearns
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11878
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Capitalizt

Postby Bear Stearns » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:50 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:And so now begins the creation of the Anglo Alliance. Canada, Australia, and New Zealand are invited. Common defense, free trade, freedom of movement, and a common currency adopted gradually (first US and Canada, Australia and New Zealand, etc.).

Ireland joining would be a fair compromise to the hard border, so they are invited too.

As a compromise, the capital should be Toronto.


If it actually happened i'd be very content. It wont ofcourse.


Also, let's be honest, we're just better than Europe.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
New York, NY 10017
Vince Vaughn

User avatar
Hamstan
Envoy
 
Posts: 306
Founded: Sep 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Hamstan » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:50 am

North German Realm wrote:
Hamstan wrote:Things don't last forever. Power gets centralized, authority becomes unquestionable, good intentions become tainted, and organizations become corrupt. Democracy is not invincible. Over time, all democracies are corrupted to the point where calling them a democracy is ludicrous.

That's irrelevant though. The reason democratic countries end authoritarian is because they abandon their democratic tradition for various reasons. Democracy can be maintained -to a point, at least- if democratic tradition is maintained.

And who is to say it will be? They are already censoring media in the name of "morality" now. What's next?
ALL POWER TO THE HAM KINGS, COMRADES!-Vladimir Bacon, our founder
a 5.63 civilization, according to https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=363018
IC Location: Has now expanded beyond the borders of its home universe and has constructed its own little interstellar empire in its own pocket universe
OOC: Hamstan does not reflect my views. I'm just a teenage anarchist

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44958
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:51 am

Bear Stearns wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
If it actually happened i'd be very content. It wont ofcourse.


Also, let's be honest, we're just better than Europe.

Wrong.
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.


Historian, of sorts.

Effortposts can be found here!

User avatar
North German Realm
Senator
 
Posts: 4494
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby North German Realm » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:55 am

Hamstan wrote:
North German Realm wrote:That's irrelevant though. The reason democratic countries end authoritarian is because they abandon their democratic tradition for various reasons. Democracy can be maintained -to a point, at least- if democratic tradition is maintained.

And who is to say it will be? They are already censoring media in the name of "morality" now. What's next?

1- That's something that's been happening -all over the world- for centuries. If you're opposing this now, it's just that you oppose the """morality""" that is maintained now, not the act of censorship itself
2- That's irrelevant to the democratic process and "Democratic tradition" as a concept.
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North German Confederation
NationStates Flag Bracket II - 6th place!

Norddeutscher Bund
Homepage || Overview | Sovereign | Chancellor | Military | Legislature || The World
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.

User avatar
North German Realm
Senator
 
Posts: 4494
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby North German Realm » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:56 am

Bear Stearns wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
If it actually happened i'd be very content. It wont ofcourse.


Also, let's be honest, we're just better than Europe.

Fantastic, not a single correct word in that statement.
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North German Confederation
NationStates Flag Bracket II - 6th place!

Norddeutscher Bund
Homepage || Overview | Sovereign | Chancellor | Military | Legislature || The World
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.

User avatar
Hamstan
Envoy
 
Posts: 306
Founded: Sep 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Hamstan » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:58 am

North German Realm wrote:
Hamstan wrote:And who is to say it will be? They are already censoring media in the name of "morality" now. What's next?

1- That's something that's been happening -all over the world- for centuries. If you're opposing this now, it's just that you oppose the """morality""" that is maintained now, not the act of censorship itself
2- That's irrelevant to the democratic process and "Democratic tradition" as a concept.

Democracy without freedom of thought is useless.
ALL POWER TO THE HAM KINGS, COMRADES!-Vladimir Bacon, our founder
a 5.63 civilization, according to https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=363018
IC Location: Has now expanded beyond the borders of its home universe and has constructed its own little interstellar empire in its own pocket universe
OOC: Hamstan does not reflect my views. I'm just a teenage anarchist

User avatar
North German Realm
Senator
 
Posts: 4494
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby North German Realm » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:03 pm

Hamstan wrote:
North German Realm wrote:1- That's something that's been happening -all over the world- for centuries. If you're opposing this now, it's just that you oppose the """morality""" that is maintained now, not the act of censorship itself
2- That's irrelevant to the democratic process and "Democratic tradition" as a concept.

Democracy without freedom of thought is useless.

You're free to think and to act. You're just not given a government-sanctioned platforms for "non-conformist" opinions, which is -while ridiculous to a point- something that's been around as long as democracy has.
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North German Confederation
NationStates Flag Bracket II - 6th place!

Norddeutscher Bund
Homepage || Overview | Sovereign | Chancellor | Military | Legislature || The World
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.

User avatar
Hamstan
Envoy
 
Posts: 306
Founded: Sep 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Hamstan » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:05 pm

North German Realm wrote:
Hamstan wrote:Democracy without freedom of thought is useless.

You're free to think and to act. You're just not given a government-sanctioned platforms for "non-conformist" opinions, which is -while ridiculous to a point- something that's been around as long as democracy has.

Do you see why I dislike democracy?
ALL POWER TO THE HAM KINGS, COMRADES!-Vladimir Bacon, our founder
a 5.63 civilization, according to https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=363018
IC Location: Has now expanded beyond the borders of its home universe and has constructed its own little interstellar empire in its own pocket universe
OOC: Hamstan does not reflect my views. I'm just a teenage anarchist

User avatar
North German Realm
Senator
 
Posts: 4494
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby North German Realm » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:06 pm

Hamstan wrote:
North German Realm wrote:You're free to think and to act. You're just not given a government-sanctioned platforms for "non-conformist" opinions, which is -while ridiculous to a point- something that's been around as long as democracy has.

Do you see why I dislike democracy?

No. I don't.
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-----------------
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North German Confederation
NationStates Flag Bracket II - 6th place!

Norddeutscher Bund
Homepage || Overview | Sovereign | Chancellor | Military | Legislature || The World
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.

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