UK Politics Thread X: Boris' Big Bonkers Brexit Bash

[Greater Loegria]

All the wonderful products that Britain has to offer.

Which are what?

We have plenty of wonderful products they’re just not major exports.

[Vassenor]

Which are what?

We have plenty of wonderful products they’re just not major exports.

Which just makes No Deal an even worse idea if there's nothing we have to build an economy on.

[Greater Loegria]

We have plenty of wonderful products they’re just not major exports.

Which just makes No Deal an even worse idea if there's nothing we have to build an economy on.

I don’t think I’ve ever really advocated for a no deal. I am specifically worried about British agriculture in such a scenario.

[Vassenor]

Which just makes No Deal an even worse idea if there's nothing we have to build an economy on.

I don’t think I’ve ever really advocated for a no deal. I am specifically worried about British agriculture in such a scenario.

Aye, but we're dealing with GVH pushing for No Deal.

[Annihilators of Chan Island]

So now all of a sudden Johnson is interested in jetting off to Europe to talk to the Eurocrats.

Hey, I'm not complaining. No deal is a terrible suicide pact of a policy, so any negotiating and dealmaking is better than that. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... -live-news

[Hirota]

Given your own source doesn't say this, burden of proof is upon you to demonstrate this claim.

It's probably closer to 10% - in all the tax havens combined.

Whatever the exact number is, it is still amounting to an enormous sum of wealth, concentrated mostly in the top 0.01% of individuals. Not the best at graphs, but isn't that suggesting about 2-5% of all of the UK's wealth is being held offshore? And, if it's a similar percentage as with Norway in the article, doesn't that still represent about 30% of all of the wealth owned by the richest 0.01% of people?

That's still huge. Not 15% huge, but huge.

Sure. But with numbers on this scale there isn't a legitimate need to exaggerate or make stuff up.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

So now all of a sudden Johnson is interested in jetting off to Europe to talk to the Eurocrats.

Hey, I'm not complaining. No deal is a terrible suicide pact of a policy, so any negotiating and dealmaking is better than that. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... -live-news

I'm always amused by the fact that the BoJo regime is more busy spreading agitation propaganda at home than actually talking with the rest of Europe. A curious set of priorities indeed.

[Ifreann]

I'm a bit confused as to how the Remainers in Parliament are claiming to defend democracy, while at the same time voting against an election to decide the matter. Aren't elections supposed to be democratic?

It's perfectly simple. They don't want to let Johnson use the calling of an election to waste time and force a no-deal Brexit, so they're making him get an extension before they'll allow an election.

---

I don't remember no deal being on the ballot.

No deal is the logical result if the government can't agree a deal with the EU that parliament can accept.

Or revoke Article 50.

[Salandriagado]

I'm a bit confused as to how the Remainers in Parliament are claiming to defend democracy, while at the same time voting against an election to decide the matter. Aren't elections supposed to be democratic?

They aren't voting against an election to decide the matter. They're voting against a blatant attempt to shut parliament down in order to force through a no-deal brexit before the election.

[Myfanwyski]

So now all of a sudden Johnson is interested in jetting off to Europe to talk to the Eurocrats.

I'm always amused by the fact that the BoJo regime is more busy spreading agitation propaganda at home than actually talking with the rest of Europe. A curious set of priorities indeed.

Curious, as there has been coming and goings by people on Boris's/Britain's behalf all the time

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-boris-johnson-eu-negotiations-border-irish-backstop-latest-a9029401.html

so, It's not like he's had a Damacene moment. Your kangaroo court reached their verdict which has tarred and feathered him and called him a No deal do-do - so he must be, mustn't he?

While some people are rooting about in the leavers' bins for evidence of lying to Her Maj. maybe they could then move into the murky missives of tony bliar, alaister campbell re- dodgy dossiers etc and what they told the Queen. If they find some spaghetti in Boris's they come up with the whole bolognaise with those two.

[Novus America]

More details please.

Trade deals with America, Russia, China etc.

Russia and the PRC are FAR more protectionist than the EU.
The US is also becoming more protectionist...

Also simply cutting trade deals does not magically improve your economy.

What realistic terms in these trade deals could substantially help the UK?
What would the UK sell them?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

What would the UK sell them?

Like the Chinese of 1850's - soil.

[Salandriagado]

Judging by this Independent article, Labour is currently voting against an election until Boris confirms that no-deal Brexit is not happening/delayed, since a recently passed act means Boris is obliged to ask for a Brexit extension.

It's essentially trying to force Boris to do what he's supposed to do. If they don't, then no-deal Brexit might go ahead right when Parliament and Boris' Cabinet are in chaos. Seems like a reasonable reason to obstruct an election, for now at least.

Why can't they have an election on October 15th, and have the new Parliament seated on October 21st? That way if the people vote for a Brexit without a deal, that can be carried out, and if the people vote to remain, then we have an extension. Are there some weird rules of Parliament that enable BoJo to change the election date, or for Parliament to avoid being seated the day after, if all of the major parties consent to it?

Thank you!

I've been calling out both sides for pretending they care about democracy, when in reality they only care about democracy when convenient. They've both cherry-picked the parts which are suitable for them, whilst ignoring the inconvenient parts.

Neither Remainers or Brexiteers in Westminster really care about democracy.

That certainly seems to be the case. When Johnson thought he had the majority, he didn't bother taking up Corbyn's election gauntlet. Now that Corbyn thinks he has the majority, he's not bothering with Johnson's election gauntlet. Meanwhile the rest of the World is laughing at the UK.

I'm surprised that the US hasn't made its own unincorporated territories tax havens.

Special economic zones would be interesting to try as well in selected areas.

Isn't USVI technically a tax haven? I know there are some taxes, but with an average income tax rate of 3.37%...

And Labour probably also wants to stop Boris from pulling a sneaky and sneaking Brexit through by setting the election too late.

That's probably secondary to political concerns though.

How does that work? I know that in the US, when we set dates for local elections, although it must be on a Tuesday, (other days are just unelectable,) once it's set the election date can't be changed. How would Boris change the election date?

Parliament doesn't set the date of early elections. Parliament passes a law saying that there will be an early election, then the Prime Minister picks the date. Boris Johnson keeps saying that he'll pick the 15th of October, but absolutely nobody believes his bullshit. At the point when he decides, it's already too late for Parliament to do anything about it, because Parliament is already dissolved for the election campaign.

Parliament could try passing a law removing the Prime Minister's ability to proclaim election dates, but as that's a law affecting the Prerogative Powers, it requires Queen's Consent, which means that the Prime Minister would have to agree to it.

[Novus America]

Trade deals with America, Russia, China etc.

And you imagine little UK won't be completely colonised by the USA or PRC?

GVH’s recommendations on Brexit are batshit but not for that reason. The UK can survive outside the EU without being “colonized”. But trade deals will not cause an economic boom either.

[Salandriagado]

And you imagine little UK won't be completely colonised by the USA or PRC?

Which other countries have been colonised by the US and the PRC via trade? We're the 6th-largest economy in the world.

And all of the ones above either are the US/China, are in the EU, or are Japan, who literally didn't get a free trade agreement with the US because they rejected the economic colonisation aspects.

This isn't even a secret: acceptance of US copyright law is literally a precondition for even beginning trade negotiations with the US.

[Greed and Death]

I'm a bit confused as to how the Remainers in Parliament are claiming to defend democracy, while at the same time voting against an election to decide the matter. Aren't elections supposed to be democratic?

It's perfectly simple. They don't want to let Johnson use the calling of an election to waste time and force a no-deal Brexit, so they're making him get an extension before they'll allow an election.

---

No deal is the logical result if the government can't agree a deal with the EU that parliament can accept.

Or revoke Article 50.

I much prefer Hard Brexit followed by an annexation of Ireland to keep the good Friday Agreements in place.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

And you imagine little UK won't be completely colonised by the USA or PRC?

GVH’s recommendations on Brexit are batshit but not for that reason. The UK can survive outside the EU without being “colonized”. But trade deals will not cause an economic boom either.

Fundamentally the negotiating power between an UK outside of the EU, and big hegemons like the United States and PRC is skewed radically in favour of the latter. PRC and the US doesn't really need to deal with what remains once Britain manages - eventually - to leave, probably without settling matters with the rest of Europe at all. Britain on the other hand would desperately need a trade deal with the big hegemons.
I.e. what would keep a Chinese oligarch with a million slaves slaving away on smart phones in Fujian Province economically interested in the British Isles?
"Oh Britain? About those rare-earth metals you wanted? Forget about them, unless you give us permission to build a nuclear reactor and 5G infrastructure somewhere we dictate."

[The Blaatschapen]

It's perfectly simple. They don't want to let Johnson use the calling of an election to waste time and force a no-deal Brexit, so they're making him get an extension before they'll allow an election.

---

Or revoke Article 50.

I much prefer Hard Brexit followed by an annexation of Ireland to keep the good Friday Agreements in place.

Yes, you want to see the world burn.

[Novus America]

What would the UK sell them?

Like the Chinese of 1850's - soil.

The were selling silk, tea and the like, the soil they lost was not willing sold, it was taken by force. And it was not much of their soil until the Japanese in the 1930s.

While the PRC and Russian oligarchs are buying up real property in the UK (the US is not particularly interested) the EU is not stopping that, it is already happening under the EU.

So I do not think the trade deals will magically make things better for the UK, (obviously they will not) that is not the reason.

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

It's perfectly simple. They don't want to let Johnson use the calling of an election to waste time and force a no-deal Brexit, so they're making him get an extension before they'll allow an election.

---

Or revoke Article 50.

I much prefer Hard Brexit followed by an annexation of Ireland to keep the good Friday Agreements in place.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not and that's very concerning.

[Greed and Death]

I much prefer Hard Brexit followed by an annexation of Ireland to keep the good Friday Agreements in place.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not and that's very concerning.

Considering I control the strings of Boris Johnson, yes it should be.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Like the Chinese of 1850's - soil.

The were selling silk, tea and the like, the soil they lost was not willing sold, it was taken by force. And it was not much of their soil until the Japanese in the 1930s.

While the PRC and Russian oligarchs are buying up real property in the UK (the US is not particularly interested) the EU is not stopping that, it is already happening under the EU.

So I do not think the trade deals will magically make things better for the UK, (obviously they will not) that is not the reason.

Obviously I would want the EU to actually crack the whip and make the member states conform to a uniform policy against Chinese Imperialism but... Italy's already doing its own thing. *sighs*

[Ifreann]

It's perfectly simple. They don't want to let Johnson use the calling of an election to waste time and force a no-deal Brexit, so they're making him get an extension before they'll allow an election.

---

Or revoke Article 50.

I much prefer Hard Brexit followed by an annexation of Ireland to keep the good Friday Agreements in place.

We'll just tell Trump the Brits are coming for his golf course and he'll nuke London.

[Novus America]

GVH’s recommendations on Brexit are batshit but not for that reason. The UK can survive outside the EU without being “colonized”. But trade deals will not cause an economic boom either.

Fundamentally the negotiating power between an UK outside of the EU, and big hegemons like the United States and PRC is skewed radically in favour of the latter. PRC and the US doesn't really need to deal with what remains once Britain manages - eventually - to leave, probably without settling matters with the rest of Europe at all. Britain on the other hand would desperately need a trade deal with the big hegemons.
I.e. what would keep a Chinese oligarch with a million slaves slaving away on smart phones in Fujian Province economically interested in the British Isles?
"Oh Britain? About those rare-earth metals you wanted? Forget about them, unless you give us permission to build a nuclear reactor and 5G infrastructure somewhere we dictate."

Well sure the deals would not help the UK much if at all, and might harm it.
Because it would not have the negotiating power.

But “completely colonized” is still hyperbolic.

And the PRC will build and own the 5G infrastructure for the EU anyways.
The EU is also too weak to stand up to the PRC.

[Dumb Ideologies]

I much prefer Hard Brexit followed by an annexation of Ireland to keep the good Friday Agreements in place.

We'll just tell Trump the Brits are coming for his golf course and he'll nuke London.

This is the real Irish backstop.