UK Politics Thread X: Boris' Big Bonkers Brexit Bash

[Greater vakolicci haven]

No deal is the logical result if the government can't agree a deal with the EU that parliament can accept.

I'd err to the side of a deal being possible - it's just that the House of Commons as a whole hasn't been able to agree on what a tangible deal may look like.

If the UK could secure a deal that wavers them even the slightest amount of protection, they should go for it, but neither May's government nor Johnson's can muster up enough confidence to achieve that bare fucking minimum.

I feel a deal is possible, yes; however, I don't think it's possible with this parliament. Parliament contains a lot of hard brexitiers who don't want anything less than no deal, as well as a lot of people who never accepted the result of the referendum (lib dems, snp, pc, cuk, elements of both labour and the conservatives.)

[Shofercia]

Since the Tories would probably lose the election it would give Boris Johnson the chance to pretended he could have solved Brexit while shoving the blame for no-deal and the aftermath thereof on Labour or the Lib-Dems.

And the Tories don't want to hold a 2nd referendum because that'd guarantee more votes lost to the Brexit party.

And as JRM admitted they know Remain would win now that a lot of the stuff they wrote off as scaremongering actually happened.

Vass, are you taking the words of politicians over polls? Erm, got some news for ya Vass: https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics ... byn-Brexit

Boris Johnson currently has no majority in Parliament, as MP Philip Lee departed Tory ranks for the Liberal Democrats yesterday. Despite this, the Prime Minister retains a strong following and is popular among Conservative voters. According to pollsters at IPSOS Mori when he took office in July, the Conservatives were ahead of Labour by 10 points, compared to a measly two-point lead the month before.
However, satisfaction with the way the Government is running the country remains low.

Some 75 percent of people are dissatisfied with the current Government. Also, a majority of people are unsatisfied with Boris Johnson’s handling of Brexit, perceived as the number one issue facing the country. Approval of Jeremy Corbyn’s handling is much lower, so if the leaders faced one other in an election, Mr Johnson still has the edge.

Granted, that's just one poll, and there are plenty to go around, but let's not pretend that either side is a sure bet to win the election, or that a new Referendum would magically repeal Brexit; it could go either way.

How dare he sneak something we already agreed to do through.

In a non binding referendum.

Electoral College is technically not bound by the popular will of its state. Show me one election where the end result would've been different?

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

I don't remember no deal being on the ballot.

No deal is the logical result if the government can't agree a deal with the EU that parliament can accept.

Something that was entirely unknown by the general public when the vote happened, mind. You can’t read the will of the public by just stating that something would be the logical conclusion of something else. Even if it were true, that does not mean it is the will of the oublic. You can’t trick a democracy into supporting something as if it were tiny script on a contract.

[Shofercia]

I'd err to the side of a deal being possible - it's just that the House of Commons as a whole hasn't been able to agree on what a tangible deal may look like.

If the UK could secure a deal that wavers them even the slightest amount of protection, they should go for it, but neither May's government nor Johnson's can muster up enough confidence to achieve that bare fucking minimum.

I feel a deal is possible, yes; however, I don't think it's possible with this parliament. Parliament contains a lot of hard brexitiers who don't want anything less than no deal, as well as a lot of people who never accepted the result of the referendum (lib dems, snp, pc, cuk, elements of both labour and the conservatives.)

That seems to be the case.

[Kowani]

Electoral College is technically not bound by the popular will of its state. Show me one election where the end result would've been different?

This is kind of irrelevant.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

No deal is the logical result if the government can't agree a deal with the EU that parliament can accept.

Something that was entirely unknown by the general public when the vote happened, mind. You can’t read the will of the public by just stating that something would be the logical conclusion of something else. Even if it were true, that does not mean it is the will of the oublic. You can’t trick a democracy into supporting something as if it were tiny script on a contract.

It should have been known if you think about it.

[Major-Tom]

I'd err to the side of a deal being possible - it's just that the House of Commons as a whole hasn't been able to agree on what a tangible deal may look like.

If the UK could secure a deal that wavers them even the slightest amount of protection, they should go for it, but neither May's government nor Johnson's can muster up enough confidence to achieve that bare fucking minimum.

I feel a deal is possible, yes; however, I don't think it's possible with this parliament. Parliament contains a lot of hard brexitiers who don't want anything less than no deal, as well as a lot of people who never accepted the result of the referendum (lib dems, snp, pc, cuk, elements of both labour and the conservatives.)

I'll concede, at this juncture, it probably isn't possible. But the May government had, 3 years? 3 years to secure a deal. And the fault doesn't entirely lie on May, the entirety of the Tory Party and even some opposition members are completely at fault for stalling any semblance of a deal. I'll concede that. Certain sects of the LibDems and the "New Labour" factions come to mind.

So, now I don't know what the solution may be. I suppose one last extension? Who knows. The situation regarding Brexit is so colossally fucked that it may just be best for a General Election wherein we pray deeply that voters don't vote for a continuation of absolute Tory ineptitude.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

I'd err to the side of a deal being possible - it's just that the House of Commons as a whole hasn't been able to agree on what a tangible deal may look like.

If the UK could secure a deal that wavers them even the slightest amount of protection, they should go for it, but neither May's government nor Johnson's can muster up enough confidence to achieve that bare fucking minimum.

I feel a deal is possible, yes; however, I don't think it's possible with this parliament. Parliament contains a lot of hard brexitiers who don't want anything less than no deal, as well as a lot of people who never accepted the result of the referendum (lib dems, snp, pc, cuk, elements of both labour and the conservatives.)

The result of the referendum was 52%-48%, mind. So the lib-dems and others did accept the result, and just chose to represent a very sizable minority.

You have a propensity for thinking that the referendum result somehow overwrote the actual popular will, and that at every stage the British public should adhere to the results of the referendum as if they set something in stone.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

I feel a deal is possible, yes; however, I don't think it's possible with this parliament. Parliament contains a lot of hard brexitiers who don't want anything less than no deal, as well as a lot of people who never accepted the result of the referendum (lib dems, snp, pc, cuk, elements of both labour and the conservatives.)

I'll concede, at this juncture, it probably isn't possible. But the May government had, 3 years? 3 years to secure a deal. And the fault doesn't entirely lie on May, the entirety of the Tory Party and even some opposition members are completely at fault for stalling any semblance of a deal. I'll concede that. Certain sects of the LibDems and the "New Labour" factions come to mind.

So, now I don't know what the solution may be. I suppose one last extension? Who knows. The situation regarding Brexit is so colossally fucked that it may just be best for a General Election wherein we pray deeply that voters don't vote for a continuation of absolute Tory ineptitude.

In actual fact the best way of securing a deal might be to elect a large tory majority. That way, the tories will be able to get a deal with the support of labour moderates, and the people on both extremes won't be able to defeat it.

[Shofercia]

Electoral College is technically not bound by the popular will of its state. Show me one election where the end result would've been different?

This is kind of irrelevant.

It's relevant to show that if enough people vote, a nonbinding election can become binding. The Brits thought that the election would play a hefty role; otherwise, why would so many vote in it? The Brexit turnout was 72.2%. Even national election turnout hasn't been that high since 1992, unless my sources are off.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

I feel a deal is possible, yes; however, I don't think it's possible with this parliament. Parliament contains a lot of hard brexitiers who don't want anything less than no deal, as well as a lot of people who never accepted the result of the referendum (lib dems, snp, pc, cuk, elements of both labour and the conservatives.)

The result of the referendum was 52%-48%, mind. So the lib-dems and others did accept the result, and just chose to represent a very sizable minority.

You have a propensity for thinking that the referendum result somehow overwrote the actual popular will, and that at every stage the British public should adhere to the results of the referendum as if they set something in stone.

They were told they did. We all got a leaflet about it.

[Major-Tom]

I'll concede, at this juncture, it probably isn't possible. But the May government had, 3 years? 3 years to secure a deal. And the fault doesn't entirely lie on May, the entirety of the Tory Party and even some opposition members are completely at fault for stalling any semblance of a deal. I'll concede that. Certain sects of the LibDems and the "New Labour" factions come to mind.

So, now I don't know what the solution may be. I suppose one last extension? Who knows. The situation regarding Brexit is so colossally fucked that it may just be best for a General Election wherein we pray deeply that voters don't vote for a continuation of absolute Tory ineptitude.

In actual fact the best way of securing a deal might be to elect a large tory majority. That way, the tories will be able to get a deal with the support of labour moderates, and the people on both extremes won't be able to defeat it.

You've lost me there. Electing a government cannot boil down to who can or cannot secure the best Brexit deal.

For starters;

(1. It's demonstrable that neither the May nor Johnson government can broker any semblance of a deal. Period.
(2. What matters far more than the Brexit issue is the matter of domestic policy, IE, who can provide affordable housing, solid climate change policy, who can reverse the harsh austerity that has been forced upon the UK ever since....1979, really. The bigger picture is far more crucial than Brexit, even if the Brexit issue is still a complicated mess that must be worked with.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

In actual fact the best way of securing a deal might be to elect a large tory majority. That way, the tories will be able to get a deal with the support of labour moderates, and the people on both extremes won't be able to defeat it.

You've lost me there. Electing a government cannot boil down to who can or cannot secure the best Brexit deal.

For starters;

(1. It's demonstrable that neither the May nor Johnson government can broker any semblance of a deal. Period.
(2. What matters far more than the Brexit issue is the matter of domestic policy, IE, who can provide affordable housing, solid climate change policy, who can reverse the harsh austerity that has been forced upon the UK ever since....1979, really. The bigger picture is far more crucial than Brexit, even if the Brexit issue is still a complicated mess that must be worked with.

May had a deal, and we can argue on how shit it was until the cows come home. The problem however was that she had no majority in order to push it through parliament, which is something that governments have relied upon since time immemorial.


I don't trust labour to govern really. I would rather see tax cuts than public service increases, for example, and some of labours plans for the economy sound like a good way of committing economic suicide.

[Kowani]

This is kind of irrelevant.

It's relevant to show that if enough people vote, a nonbinding election can become binding. The Brits thought that the election would play a hefty role; otherwise, why would so many vote in it? The Brexit turnout was 72.2%. Even national election turnout hasn't been that high since 1992, unless my sources are off.

And your point is what, exactly? It’s an advisory referendum. Parliament is under no obligation to obey it.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

I think if we angle things correctly we could set ourselves up as an international trading hub.

How, exactly?

Are you going to answer this question GVH?

[Greater vakolicci haven]

How, exactly?

Are you going to answer this question GVH?

By creating trade deals away from the protectionist EU bloc.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Are you going to answer this question GVH?

By creating trade deals away from the protectionist EU bloc.

More details please.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

By creating trade deals away from the protectionist EU bloc.

More details please.

Trade deals with America, Russia, China etc.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

More details please.

Trade deals with America, Russia, China etc.

Trading what?

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Trade deals with America, Russia, China etc.

Trading what?

All the wonderful products that Britain has to offer.

[Gormwood]

Trading what?

All the wonderful products that Britain has to offer.

Annoying talk show hosts?

[Greater Loegria]

Trading what?

All the wonderful products that Britain has to offer.

Most of our best products are luxury niche artisanal stuff which don’t turn over a large enough revenue to be relied upon. We have financial services in London but that’s basically a false economy. Our manufacturing for the most part got flushed down the loo.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

More details please.

Trade deals with America, Russia, China etc.

And you imagine little UK won't be completely colonised by the USA or PRC?

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Trade deals with America, Russia, China etc.

And you imagine little UK won't be completely colonised by the USA or PRC?

Which other countries have been colonised by the US and the PRC via trade? We're the 6th-largest economy in the world.

[Vassenor]

Trading what?

All the wonderful products that Britain has to offer.

Which are what?