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UK Politics Thread X: Boris' Big Bonkers Brexit Bash

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What is your favoured form of brexit?

Mays deal
28
5%
EFTA
36
6%
Some other sort of deal (please elaborate in the comments)
24
4%
Mays deal without Irish backstop
9
2%
No deal
132
23%
No deal+ (no deal minus NI and Scotland)
20
4%
I want a second referendum
208
37%
Revoke article 50 without even calling a referendum
105
19%
 
Total votes : 562

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:10 am

Greater Loegria wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
What's wrong with that?

You know exactly what’s wrong with it.


Aside from you apparently getting upset that people hold views different to you I'm not sure what the problem is.
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Ostroeuropa
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:15 am

Greater Loegria wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
What's wrong with that?

You know exactly what’s wrong with it.


It's the anthem of the Labour party...

At worst it's a partisan breach of parliamentary decorum and procedure to bring "party business" into the chamber, but not an outrage. Gauche maybe.
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There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Philjia
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Founded: Sep 15, 2014
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Philjia » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:20 am

Scotlands highest civil court has ruled that the suspension of parliament was unlawful. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-49661855
Nemesis the Warlock wrote:I am the Nemesis, I am the Warlock, I am the shape of things to come, the Lord of the Flies, holder of the Sword Sinister, the Death Bringer, I am the one who waits on the edge of your dreams, I am all these things and many more

⚧ Trans rights. ⚧
Pragmatic ethical utopian socialist, IE I'm for whatever kind of socialism is the most moral and practical. Pro LGBT rights and gay marriage, pro gay adoption, generally internationalist, ambivalent on the EU, atheist, pro free speech and expression, pro legalisation of prostitution and soft drugs, and pro choice. Anti authoritarian, anti Marxist. White cishet male.

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Greater Loegria
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Postby Greater Loegria » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:20 am

Vassenor wrote:
Greater Loegria wrote:You know exactly what’s wrong with it.


Aside from you apparently getting upset that people hold views different to you I'm not sure what the problem is.

First of all singing in the chamber is deeply inappropriate but could be excused if some patriotic song were broken into in the wake of a national catastrophe. Second of all, it’s a song about revolution and hoisting a red flag. It has no place in Her Majesty’s Parliament.
CONFŒDERATIO MAGNA LŒGRIÆ
Y Gynghraig Lloegreg Mawr

If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.-J.R.R Tolkien
A theocratic military junta, a Brythonic ennobled republic with a Roman flair. Imperialistic and Nationalistic, balancing deep social conservatism with a social economy. 260 million strong, led by a Lord Chancellor from the ancient city of Caer Ddywfol
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New haven america
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Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby New haven america » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:22 am

Bienenhalde wrote:


Why doesn't Britain grow more food locally instead of being so dependent on food imported from halfway around the world? I think that is part of the real issue here. There needs to be more investment in British agriculture to make the country more self-sufficient.

The UK is mainly located on a hilly and rocky island that's barely the size of the US' East Coast and has a population of over 60 million.

Gee, IDK, why don't they just grow their own food?
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Vassenor
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Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:23 am

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New haven america
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Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby New haven america » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:25 am

Greater Loegria wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Aside from you apparently getting upset that people hold views different to you I'm not sure what the problem is.

First of all singing in the chamber is deeply inappropriate but could be excused if some patriotic song were broken into in the wake of a national catastrophe. Second of all, it’s a song about revolution and hoisting a red flag. It has no place in Her Majesty’s Parliament.

I mean, she's the one who suspended the Parliament to make getting a no-deal Brexit easier, which would lead the country into a recession, give the rich and powerful (Like herself and Boris' backers) plenty of time to swipe up depressed stocks, bonds, real estate, etc... while leaving the average person even worse off then before.

I don't think some people singing in Parliament is that big a deal comparatively.
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Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58536
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:26 am

Greater Loegria wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Aside from you apparently getting upset that people hold views different to you I'm not sure what the problem is.

First of all singing in the chamber is deeply inappropriate but could be excused if some patriotic song were broken into in the wake of a national catastrophe. Second of all, it’s a song about revolution and hoisting a red flag. It has no place in Her Majesty’s Parliament.


It's not about revolution. You're so neck deep in anti-socialism that you think socialist imagery is about revolution. It's the anthem of the Labour party, a democratic socialist party, zero of the lyrics are revolutionary.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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An Alan Smithee Nation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7623
Founded: Apr 18, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:28 am

Philjia wrote:Scotlands highest civil court has ruled that the suspension of parliament was unlawful. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-49661855


We really should put Johnson in the Tower.
Everything is intertwinkled

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Philjia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11843
Founded: Sep 15, 2014
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Philjia » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:28 am


But only according to Scotlands highest civil court, so they'll almost certainly have to go to the supreme court for the ruling to stick.
Nemesis the Warlock wrote:I am the Nemesis, I am the Warlock, I am the shape of things to come, the Lord of the Flies, holder of the Sword Sinister, the Death Bringer, I am the one who waits on the edge of your dreams, I am all these things and many more

⚧ Trans rights. ⚧
Pragmatic ethical utopian socialist, IE I'm for whatever kind of socialism is the most moral and practical. Pro LGBT rights and gay marriage, pro gay adoption, generally internationalist, ambivalent on the EU, atheist, pro free speech and expression, pro legalisation of prostitution and soft drugs, and pro choice. Anti authoritarian, anti Marxist. White cishet male.

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Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18661
Founded: May 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:30 am


Surely if one court has said it's lawful and another has said its unlawful, what you should be saying 'turns out legal opinions are mixed.'

Edit: actually, upon reading the news story, I got it wrong. I thought that it was talking about separate lawsuits.
Last edited by Greater vakolicci haven on Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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Zhivotnoye
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 101
Founded: May 15, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Zhivotnoye » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:30 am

Vassenor wrote:
Zhivotnoye wrote:
No, yet solely pointing at people such as them implies as such.


So basically you're getting upset that I'm pointing out that the people in power pushing for no deal might not have your best interests at heart.


Not upset at all, just pointing out you seem biased.

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Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58536
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:31 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:

Surely if one court has said it's lawful and another has said its unlawful, what you should be saying 'turns out legal opinions are mixed.'

A higher court overturned the ruling that it was legal, and now it'll go to the supreme court
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18661
Founded: May 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:32 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Surely if one court has said it's lawful and another has said its unlawful, what you should be saying 'turns out legal opinions are mixed.'

A higher court overturned the ruling that it was legal, and now it'll go to the supreme court

Yeah I thought that it was different lawsuits, one in England and one in Scotland.
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 68113
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:54 am

Zhivotnoye wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
So basically you're getting upset that I'm pointing out that the people in power pushing for no deal might not have your best interests at heart.


Not upset at all, just pointing out you seem biased.


And your evidence of bias is that I point out facts.
Jenny / Sailor Astraea
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100% Asbestos Free

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SD_Film Artists
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Posts: 13400
Founded: Jun 10, 2009
Father Knows Best State

Postby SD_Film Artists » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:20 am

Philjia wrote:

But only according to Scotlands highest civil court, so they'll almost certainly have to go to the supreme court for the ruling to stick.


[haughty southerner noises] the supreme court can make a real decision after being advised by the tartan sandbox test server.
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The Greater Ohio Valley
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7080
Founded: Jan 19, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:21 am

Zhivotnoye wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Entirely relevant, because if there’s little to no benefit in leaving then why leave at all?



But maybe, just maybe they should leave because the people made their wish clear and the government vouched to respect it?
Here begs the question, are you so much of a capitalist that the people of a country don't matter anymore?

They should only leave when they have a clear, concise and reasonable plan of action in place and if they can't do that then in EU they should stay.

Your begging of the question would be more relevant if I was a capitalistic as you seem to be implying, which I am not. I'm simply a person who recognizes that Britain leaving the EU, especially with no deal, would be a significant detriment to the UK and British society as a whole.
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Salandriagado
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22831
Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Salandriagado » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:53 am

Greater Loegria wrote:What a fucking outrage, MPs singing the ‘Red Flag’ in parliament.


You realise it's sung at the end of every single Labour party conference, right? It's literally the party's official anthem.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 68113
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:16 am

Greater Loegria wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Aside from you apparently getting upset that people hold views different to you I'm not sure what the problem is.

First of all singing in the chamber is deeply inappropriate but could be excused if some patriotic song were broken into in the wake of a national catastrophe. Second of all, it’s a song about revolution and hoisting a red flag. It has no place in Her Majesty’s Parliament.


God Save the Queen contains explicit references to killing the Scots. But that's perfectly fine apparently.
Jenny / Sailor Astraea
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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 163942
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:48 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
How much of that was for farmers to not produce food?

Wouldn't it work better for the UK to pay farmers enough money to support themselves, so they could grow more food and export it really cheaply and drive farmers in other countries out of business?

I thought taxes were extortion. Now you want to outspend the entire EU?


Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Paying people not to work sounds like the least Tory thing I can imagine.


Very parliamentary, and I've been repeatedly assured that the Tories are the natural party of government.

Nonsense, parliamentarians work very hard.

MoggLyingDownInParliament.jpg


Greater Loegria wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Aside from you apparently getting upset that people hold views different to you I'm not sure what the problem is.

First of all singing in the chamber is deeply inappropriate but could be excused if some patriotic song were broken into in the wake of a national catastrophe. Second of all, it’s a song about revolution and hoisting a red flag. It has no place in Her Majesty’s Parliament.

Parliamentary privilege, tho.
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we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
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we never

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The New California Republic
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35483
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:05 am

Philjia wrote:Scotlands highest civil court has ruled that the suspension of parliament was unlawful. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-49661855

Eat it BoJo.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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The New California Republic
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35483
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:06 am

Greater Loegria wrote:What a fucking outrage, MPs singing the ‘Red Flag’ in parliament.

Feigning outrage doesn't suit you.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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Greater Loegria
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1577
Founded: Jan 15, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater Loegria » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:21 am

Salandriagado wrote:
Greater Loegria wrote:What a fucking outrage, MPs singing the ‘Red Flag’ in parliament.


You realise it's sung at the end of every single Labour party conference, right? It's literally the party's official anthem.

Yes, I know this. And that’s a disgrace too.
CONFŒDERATIO MAGNA LŒGRIÆ
Y Gynghraig Lloegreg Mawr

If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.-J.R.R Tolkien
A theocratic military junta, a Brythonic ennobled republic with a Roman flair. Imperialistic and Nationalistic, balancing deep social conservatism with a social economy. 260 million strong, led by a Lord Chancellor from the ancient city of Caer Ddywfol
Tradionalist Catholic British Nationalist
Pro: Christianity, Nationalism, Traditionalism, Environmentalism, Ruralism, Integralism and Ancestral Heritage
Anti: Globalism, Progressivism, Capitalism, Socialism, Immigration, Neo-Liberalism
British Catholic Student of Classical Antiquity. Fond of pints, rugger, the outdoors and Western Classical Arts. Reservist-in-Training

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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 163942
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:24 am

Greater Loegria wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
You realise it's sung at the end of every single Labour party conference, right? It's literally the party's official anthem.

Yes, I know this. And that’s a disgrace too.

Very mad that I don't live under a regime so tyrannical that people fear to express different political opinions.
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

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Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 68113
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:29 am

Greater Loegria wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
You realise it's sung at the end of every single Labour party conference, right? It's literally the party's official anthem.

Yes, I know this. And that’s a disgrace too.


And I think it's a disgrace that our national anthem is about wiping out part of the nation.
Jenny / Sailor Astraea
WOMAN

MtF trans and proud - She / Her / etc.
100% Asbestos Free

Team Mystic
#iamEUropean

"Have you ever had a moment online, when the need to prove someone wrong has outweighed your own self-preservation instincts?"

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