UK Politics Thread X: Boris' Big Bonkers Brexit Bash

[Ostroeuropa]

Corbyn is now in discussions of accepting a senior MP without party affiliation as an interim cancel-this-bullshit prime minister. My guess would be that he demands a national unity government and a timeframe for an election as a compromise, with the understanding that the interim PM's job is a binding referendum on Brexit followed by election, or perhaps both on the same ballot to drive up turnout. Senior Labour MPs are sounding it out.

It screams "Ken Clarke" to me. By throwing him out of the party, he's given Labour the means to accept him as a compromise candidate.

[Fartsniffage]

Corbyn is now in discussions of accepting a senior MP without party affiliation as an interim cancel-this-bullshit prime minister. My guess would be that he demands a national unity government and a timeframe for an election as a compromise, with the understanding that the interim PM's job is a binding referendum on Brexit followed by election, or perhaps both on the same ballot to drive up turnout. Senior Labour MPs are sounding it out.

It screams "Ken Clarke" to me. By throwing him out of the party, he's given Labour the means to accept him as a compromise candidate.

I want Ken Clarke to do something right now. Not sure I want him as an interim PM....

[Ostroeuropa]

Corbyn is now in discussions of accepting a senior MP without party affiliation as an interim cancel-this-bullshit prime minister. My guess would be that he demands a national unity government and a timeframe for an election as a compromise, with the understanding that the interim PM's job is a binding referendum on Brexit followed by election, or perhaps both on the same ballot to drive up turnout. Senior Labour MPs are sounding it out.

It screams "Ken Clarke" to me. By throwing him out of the party, he's given Labour the means to accept him as a compromise candidate.

I want Ken Clarke to do something right now. Not sure I want him as an interim PM....

As interim PM he can ask for the extension from the EU, force through the bills, and if necessary, revoke article 50 to honor the result of that referendum.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Right, because the conservatives goal for carbon neutrality by 2050, changing it to 2045, more then most other nations are doing and certainly more then the EU is committing to. So anti-environment.

Spouting platitudes =/= actually pursuing policies that will achieve that goal.

I assume you have evidence to back up your claim then?

From those twin assumptions has flown significant funding for electric vehicle infrastructure and energy storage R&D; an evolving vision for a UK smart grid; new, if still early stage, plans to improve business energy efficiency; the construction of the first new nuclear power plant in a generation; a fleet of giant new offshore wind farms; co-ordinated Sector Deals for key green industries; a raft of new regulations and initiatives to tackle plastic waste; an international coal phase out plan; a bid to host the critical COP26 UN climate summit; the greenest Treasury statement in years, including the promise of a major new review on the economic value of nature and beefed up green standards for new homes; the first draft Environment Bill in 25 years; a potentially transformational plan to reform agricultural subsidies to benefit the environment; a repeated pledge to maintain and strengthen environmental protections post-Brexit, including clear commitments in the Withdrawal Agreement; and, perhaps most important of all, an official review of whether to set a net zero emission target that everyone knows is only going to come back with one answer.

https://www.businessgreen.com/bg/blog-p ... -no-really

[Celritannia]

Representative elitism?

There are protests wanting the UK to remain in the EU.

What benefit is there outside of the EU?

Oh wow, protests? Maybe that’s how we should run a country, pass laws by the number of protesters instead of voters.

Because it’s what the people voted for.

A 3 year old referendum which no one voted to leave without a deal means nothing.
The evidence of the problems with leaving is clear.

[Celritannia]

Certainly, so long as it is the will of the state for thieves and murderers to be arrested and punished.


You misunderstand me, I am not claiming it is unnecessary. It is absolutely necessary for the police to continue their operation if order is to remain. The problem is that this fact should not allow anyone to make the fatal mistake that the police is "for the people".

What really needs to end is the way that many people are willing to just follow what they say. If when any police officer in a chase asks someone on the street 'where did he go' the answer should be 'fuck knows.' Police officers should not be given the time of day, aside from encouragement to leave such a terrible profession.

They signed up to do a job yes, and the Police officers are needed.

[Ostroeuropa]

Oh wow, protests? Maybe that’s how we should run a country, pass laws by the number of protesters instead of voters.

Because it’s what the people voted for.

A 3 year old referendum which no one voted to leave without a deal means nothing.
The evidence of the problems with leaving is clear.

Polls from the time indicated 4% of voters expected us to leave without a deal at the time of the referendum if Leave won.

[Celritannia]

A 3 year old referendum which no one voted to leave without a deal means nothing.
The evidence of the problems with leaving is clear.

Polls from the time indicated 4% of voters expected us to leave without a deal at the time of the referendum if Leave won.

So should we adhere to 4% of the British People?

[Taihei Tengoku]

Polls from the time indicated 4% of voters expected us to leave without a deal at the time of the referendum if Leave won.

So should we adhere to 4% of the British People.

Seeing as they are smarter than the other 96%, yes

[Celritannia]

So should we adhere to 4% of the British People.

Seeing as they are smarter than the other 96%, yes

Leaving without a deal, has been stated by experts, impossible and a danger to the UK.

[Liriena]

So should we adhere to 4% of the British People.

Seeing as they are smarter than the other 96%, yes

Ah, I love the smell of right-wing disdain for the popular masses in the evening.

[Ostroeuropa]

Polls from the time indicated 4% of voters expected us to leave without a deal at the time of the referendum if Leave won.

So should we adhere to 4% of the British People?

No.

As a comparison, 5% of the UK voted for straight up Eurofederalist Communists who stood on a platform of immediate unification of Europe into a supernation and vanguard communism.

It's such a fringe ridiculous view that larping as the USSR was more popular until the far-right took over the conservative party and gaslit everyone into thinking it was normal, and their base just pretended this was what they always believed because they don't really have any principles except hating the left.

[Liriena]

So should we adhere to 4% of the British People?

No.

As a comparison, 5% of the UK voted for straight up Eurofederalist Communists who stood on a platform of immediate unification of Europe and vanguard communism.

It's such a fringe ridiculous view that larping as the USSR is more popular.

*extremely Leninist vibrations*

So you're saying there's a chance?

[Celritannia]

So should we adhere to 4% of the British People?

No.

As a comparison, 5% of the UK voted for straight up Eurofederalist Communists who stood on a platform of immediate unification of Europe and vanguard communism.

It's such a fringe ridiculous view that larping as the USSR is more popular.

Oh FFS, the EU is not wanting a full federation, and it is not full of communists either, neither is it full of rich elitists.

[Ostroeuropa]

No.

As a comparison, 5% of the UK voted for straight up Eurofederalist Communists who stood on a platform of immediate unification of Europe and vanguard communism.

It's such a fringe ridiculous view that larping as the USSR is more popular.

*extremely Leninist vibrations*

So you're saying there's a chance?

The socialist bloc has more of a chance and they're not federalists, going in more for a pseudo confederacy type arrangement that we currently sort of have.

What you'd need for eurofederal communism is for the press to just gaslight people over the very obvious presence of Leninists in positions of influence getting more and more prominent, brazen, and obvious, right up until they just take over the left wing and take the election of a moderate left wing government as a license to seize the means of production while saying that everyone left of hitler was always Leninist and nothing ever changed and why are you acting like something changed? This is how it always was. We elected a Leninist government, respect the will of the people.

[Liriena]

No.

As a comparison, 5% of the UK voted for straight up Eurofederalist Communists who stood on a platform of immediate unification of Europe and vanguard communism.

It's such a fringe ridiculous view that larping as the USSR is more popular.

Oh FFS, the EU is not wanting a full federation, and it is not full of communists either, neither is it full of rich elitists.

I think Ostro was just making a comparison, showing how actual Eurofederalist communism is slightly more popular than no deal Brexit was. Which goes to show the point I'm pretty sure he's making: that no deal Brexit is not the populist choice.

[Dooom35796821595]

Oh wow, protests? Maybe that’s how we should run a country, pass laws by the number of protesters instead of voters.

Because it’s what the people voted for.

A 3 year old referendum which no one voted to leave without a deal means nothing.
The evidence of the problems with leaving is clear.

They voted to leave, not remain.

No, the problem with the political class is clear.

As I mentioned previously, the best compromise would have been to leave with an acceptable deal in place, but clearly that wasn’t what the political class of the UK/EU wanted. And we can’t tell who caused the problem since the negotiations were done behind closed doors (very accountable and transparent) other then assume it was both parties who were responsible.

A 3 year old referendum which no one voted to leave without a deal means nothing.
The evidence of the problems with leaving is clear.

Polls from the time indicated 4% of voters expected us to leave without a deal at the time of the referendum if Leave won. As a comparison, straight up Eurofederalist Communists got 5% of the vote in the EU parliament from the UK.

And how much of the vote have UKIP and the Brexit party been getting in the EU elections? Don’t compare statistics that represent two entirely different things and then pretend they both mean the same thing.

[Liriena]

*extremely Leninist vibrations*

So you're saying there's a chance?

The socialist bloc has more of a chance and they're not federalists, going in more for a pseudo confederacy type arrangement that we currently sort of have.

*extremely succdem sigh*

Fine, I'll take it.

Also, I wanted to thank your country's political system for pandering to my weird addiction to convoluted, hyper-complex political intrigue. Just this week has given me the feeling I was missing after Game of Thrones ended in season 6.

[Zhivotnoye]

Is this still going on? Just get them out already, deal or no deal.

No.

As a comparison, 5% of the UK voted for straight up Eurofederalist Communists who stood on a platform of immediate unification of Europe and vanguard communism.

It's such a fringe ridiculous view that larping as the USSR is more popular.

Oh FFS, the EU is not wanting a full federation, and it is not full of communists either, neither is it full of rich elitists.

It does though, and already is to some extend.

[Liriena]

I gotta say, Johnson has been another nice example of something that's both worrisome but also reassuring: that far right demagogues are disturbingly good at talking their way to the top even though they're all hugely incompetent at actually governing.

[Celritannia]

A 3 year old referendum which no one voted to leave without a deal means nothing.
The evidence of the problems with leaving is clear.

They voted to leave, not remain.

No, the problem with the political class is clear.

As I mentioned previously, the best compromise would have been to leave with an acceptable deal in place, but clearly that wasn’t what the political class of the UK/EU wanted. And we can’t tell who caused the problem since the negotiations were done behind closed doors (very accountable and transparent) other then assume it was both parties who were responsible.

Really? I remember a set of graphs a number of pages back, showing those who voted to leave were more or less from low income families, older, and had less education.

What deal?
There is no possible reason as to why we need a deal after to utter shite that we have been through.

Remaining in the EU is the only deal we need right now.

Actually, the EU has posted all the negotiations on their website.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/brexit- ... kingdom_en

[Liriena]

"Extraordinary amounts of effort in getting a deal" ladies and gentlemen...

Sajid Javid has insisted the government will neither ask for a further Brexit extension nor break a new Brexit law that could require it to do so.

The law, which is expected to gain royal assent on Monday, is designed to stop the UK exiting the EU without a deal – but the chancellor says government policy is to leave on 31 October regardless.

It's like a non-orientable shape that took the form of an ideology holy fuck.

[Ostroeuropa]

The socialist bloc has more of a chance and they're not federalists, going in more for a pseudo confederacy type arrangement that we currently sort of have.

*extremely succdem sigh*

Fine, I'll take it.

Also, I wanted to thank your country's political system for pandering to my weird addiction to convoluted, hyper-complex political intrigue. Just this week has given me the feeling I was missing after Game of Thrones ended in season 6.

If you count the greens as just really angry and dedicated environmentalist hippy socialists (Which, yeah), they've been the largest faction for decades now, sitting at between 30 and 40% consistently. The problem being the Liberals wailing like a toddler who scraped their knee every time the socialists try to get anything done and running off to join the far-right. Liberal kingmakers are now stuck in the midst of the collapse of liberalism globally between having to choose between the far-right shit or the socialists.

On a really good year for the left, if we include the commuists, we can hit 45%.

And then the Liberals throw a tantrum and join the far-right.

They've done that for decades and decades, and now we're seeing the consequences globally.

The far-right has shat the bed on Brexit and Trump and stuff because they decided to shove the liberals out of the boat and go "Whatcha gonna do about it? Join the socialists? lolololol", which obviously they won't.

But the liberals sure will cockblock the left when they can, even if they don't support the far-right. Which means the far-right just ignoring procedure and the law is going to be the norm for how they get shit done

[Celritannia]

Is this still going on? Just get them out already, deal or no deal.

Oh FFS, the EU is not wanting a full federation, and it is not full of communists either, neither is it full of rich elitists.

It does though, and already is to some extend.

It's kind of tricky to say, it isn't Federalised, and it isn't truly Confederalised either.

[Liriena]

*extremely succdem sigh*

Fine, I'll take it.

Also, I wanted to thank your country's political system for pandering to my weird addiction to convoluted, hyper-complex political intrigue. Just this week has given me the feeling I was missing after Game of Thrones ended in season 6.

If you count the greens as just really angry and dedicated environmentalist hippy socialists (Which, yeah), they've been the largest faction for decades now, sitting at between 30 and 40% consistently. The problem being the Liberals wailing like a toddler who scraped their knee every time the socialists try to get anything done and running off to join the far-right. Liberal kingmakers are now stuck in the midst of the collapse of liberalism globally between having to choose between the far-right shit or the socialists.

On a really good year for the left, if we include the commuists, we can hit 45%.

And then the Liberals throw a tantrum and join the far-right.

They've done that for decades and decades, and now we're seeing the consequences globally.

Yep. Fish-hook theory, y'all.

Specially loved the bit the LibDems did, going against every principle in their platform because CORBYN BAD.