UK Politics Thread X: Boris' Big Bonkers Brexit Bash

[Nakena]

It was Brexit. If the EU won't give us a decent deal, then it's no deal Brexit.

And that will makes things better for the UK how?

I think it was when you were taking a nap back in 2016.

Maybe if I take another nap everything will magically sort itself out.

You'd miss out all the fun stuff though. Be a news junkie and get the energy drinks ready for a long night with Boris and Friends. It can only get better.

[Caracasus]

Parliament are trying to prevent the result of a direct democratic vote.

When did the people of Britain vote for a no-deal brexit? I didn't see that in the news.

We voted to leave the EU. Nothing on the ballot suggested there would be no deal and those pushing to leave told everyone there would be a deal. Then we had w years of about the worst excuse for negotiating ever by our govt. And here we are. You can certainly argue that while the referendum was technically non binding, the government at the time promised to respect it. You can't argue that no deal brexit is what people voted for though, or that it'd be a good idea.

Nice flag btw.

[Upper Pacifica]

What is the position of the majority of British Leftists on Brexit?

[Old Tyrannia]

It's not either of those things. Autocracy is where political power is entirely concentrated in one individual, and the Lords aren't bound by any allegiance to "democracy" as a general concept; in fact their whole purpose is to serve as a check on the power of the democratically elected authorities.

Rarely are autocracies actually about one sole individual though. No man rules alone, after all. They may have politburos and parliaments, just not elected (or fairly elected) ones.

"Rule of one" is literally what autocracy means.

[The New California Republic]

When did the people of Britain vote for a no-deal brexit? I didn't see that in the news.

It was Brexit. If the EU won't give us a decent deal, then it's no deal Brexit.

The Brexiteers during the referendum campaign were constantly banging on about how it'd be easy to get a good deal.

[Cerinda]

What is the position of the majority of British Leftists on Brexit?

From what I've seen most support Brexit but are a against a no deal.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Parliament are trying to prevent the result of a direct democratic vote.

When did the people of Britain vote for a no-deal brexit? I didn't see that in the news.

They didn't, and a more voters oppose it than support it according to polls.

The figures are here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49551893

[Chan Island]

What is the position of the majority of British Leftists on Brexit?

The Labour Party, which is headed by Jeremy Corbyn (widely perceived as one of their most leftwing leaders in decades), opposes Brexit (with many asterisks and caveats that are costing them votes to be honest). Socially leftwing people, especially among the young, are about the most fervently anti-Brexit people in the country.

Meanwhile the Communist Party of Great Britain, and a handful of the very old far leftists in the Labour party, are super in favour. A fair number of self-described Communists and Trotskyists have even joined and been elected on a Brexit Party ticket.

EDIT: Oh, and Socialist Worker's Party seems to keep cropping up in the pro-remain protests, but honestly they are so embarrassing that everyone's just kind of agreed to ignore the fact that they're there.

[Souseiseki]

The Lords are planning to filibuster the bill if it passes.

lmao democracy

[Salandriagado]

So one of the deputy speakers is currently explaining basic parliamentary procedure to a bunch of MPs who weren't listening the first three times he explained it.

[Heloin]

When did the people of Britain vote for a no-deal brexit? I didn't see that in the news.

We voted to leave the EU. Nothing on the ballot suggested there would be no deal and those pushing to leave told everyone there would be a deal. Then we had w years of about the worst excuse for negotiating ever by our govt. And here we are. You can certainly argue that while the referendum was technically non binding, the government at the time promised to respect it. You can't argue that no deal brexit is what people voted for though, or that it'd be a good idea.

It's a fascinating situation that both May and now Johnson think the EU is going to bend over backwards to the UK threatening to do something that will negatively affect the UK.

Nice flag btw.

Dankie.

[Cerinda]

What is the position of the majority of British Leftists on Brexit?

The Labour Party, which is headed by Jeremy Corbyn (widely perceived as one of their most leftwing leaders in decades), opposes Brexit (with many asterisks and caveats that are costing them votes to be honest). Socially leftwing people, especially among the young, are about the most fervently anti-Brexit people in the country.

Meanwhile the Communist Party of Great Britain, and a handful of the very old far leftists in the Labour party, are super in favour. A fair number of self-described Communists and Trotskyists have even joined and been elected on a Brexit Party ticket.

EDIT: Oh, and Socialist Worker's Party seems to keep cropping up in the pro-remain protests, but honestly they are so embarrassing that everyone's just kind of agreed to ignore the fact that they're there.

I assume you meant either the Communist Party of Great Britain - Marxist-Leninist or the Communist Party of Britain, as the original Communist Party of Great Britain dissolved in 1991:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist ... at_Britain

[Old Tyrannia]

It's not either of those things. Autocracy is where political power is entirely concentrated in one individual, and the Lords aren't bound by any allegiance to "democracy" as a general concept; in fact their whole purpose is to serve as a check on the power of the democratically elected authorities.

Autocracy can also be oligarchic.

It literally cannot be by definition.

Also then they're checking power to fuck britain over.

In your opinion.

Maybe not legally but I'm pretty sure in results that's treason.

No, treason is seeking to deprive the queen or her successors of their throne. If treason meant "doing things that aren't in the best interest of the country" then the prisons would be full to bursting with politicians convicted of treason. If you're going to use words you should use them correctly, not toss around whatever terms sound best and most dramatic in your head.

[Salandriagado]

Currently voting to start the third reading.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

so what does that Kinnock amendment that passed do?

[Salandriagado]

so what does that Kinnock amendment that passed do?

Nothing especially interesting: it just adds a paragraph at the end that essentially says "and BJ has to get off his arse and actually negotiate something during the extension period".

[Heloin]

so what does that Kinnock amendment that passed do?

Nothing especially interesting: it just adds a paragraph at the end that essentially says "and BJ has to get off his arse and actually negotiate something during the extension period".

So it's trying to stop him from playing chicken with a train?

[Salandriagado]

Nothing especially interesting: it just adds a paragraph at the end that essentially says "and BJ has to get off his arse and actually negotiate something during the extension period".

So it's trying to stop him from playing chicken with a train?

Sort of? It's a fairly toothless paragraph, which is why it passed so easily.

[Vassenor]

I'm surprised a second referendum is as high as it is. That will only create more division within the country. Britain should leave the EU with some sort of deal and maybe revisit this issue in 10-15 years.

Funny how everyone is adamant we have to leave first before we're allowed to say if we still think it's a good idea.

[Heloin]

So it's trying to stop him from playing chicken with a train?

Sort of? It's a fairly toothless paragraph, which is why it passed so easily.

Hench trying.

[Old Tyrannia]

It literally cannot be by definition.

In your opinion.

No, treason is seeking to deprive the queen or her successors of their throne. If treason meant "doing things that aren't in the best interest of the country" then the prisons would be full to bursting with politicians convicted of treason. If you're going to use words you should use them correctly, not toss around whatever terms sound best and most dramatic in your head.

1: It's become used much more widely even by academics
2: No, factually from the research of most economists and experts.
3: In UK sure but it's a ill-defined term globally, I use it when people support things disastrous for the country that most professionals in the specific field-say climate change and climate scientists-is disastrous to the country, and to me the government serves the people thus stuff that harm the people that drastically is how I consider treason. But here it's not intentionally so throwing them in prison would be far too authoritarian for me.

Rebellion against a head of state or government I don't consider treasonous.



Keep in mind people view treason as a concept differently. This is my definition.

I see no reason to continue arguing with someone who thinks it's their prerogative to arbitrarily redefine words and legal concepts however they may choose.

[Souseiseki]

holy shit i am so sick of living in a country where we still run shit based on informal agreements made 300 years because no one has the balls to change it or they're too attached to feeling good about their "traditions" to fix it get me off this nightmare

[Old Tyrannia]

holy shit i am so sick of living in a country where we still run shit based on informal agreements made 300 years because no one has the balls to change it or they're too attached to feeling good about their "traditions" to fix it get me off this nightmare

You can always move. You won't be missed.

[Souseiseki]

holy shit i am so sick of living in a country where we still run shit based on informal agreements made 300 years because no one has the balls to change it or they're too attached to feeling good about their "traditions" to fix it get me off this nightmare

You can always move. You won't be missed.

1) "move if you don't like it" is the most trite trick in the book. even if i move your shit country will still be broken, so how about you fix it?
2) i probably would move, but my ability to move is being severely curtailed by something that my country did not vote for
3) who are you to say i won't be missed, exactly?
4) 49% support for independence me old chum

[Souseiseki]

Not sure the Kinnock amendment was an accident by the government whips. Labour frontbench had made clear they were not going to support it. Government may have allowed it to pass by “forgetting” to put up tellers. Developing.

man it would be really cool if it turned out the government just blatantly fucking cheated lol

The amendment in the name of Stephen Kinnock didn’t have a vote as the Government didn’t provide tellers to count. This meant the amendment went through although the No Lobby was full. This wasn’t an accident you can be assured there’s some skullduggery going on