NATION

PASSWORD

UK Politics Thread X: Boris' Big Bonkers Brexit Bash

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

What is your favoured form of brexit?

Mays deal
28
5%
EFTA
36
6%
Some other sort of deal (please elaborate in the comments)
24
4%
Mays deal without Irish backstop
9
2%
No deal
132
23%
No deal+ (no deal minus NI and Scotland)
20
4%
I want a second referendum
208
37%
Revoke article 50 without even calling a referendum
105
19%
 
Total votes : 562

User avatar
Questarian New Yorkshire
Minister
 
Posts: 3158
Founded: Nov 08, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Questarian New Yorkshire » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:25 am

Nevertheless the major UK public finance problem is this:

Image

As the number of people receiving state pensions relative to the number of people who are paying tax increases the tax must go up, the value of the pension must go down, the state must borrow, or other things must be cut in the budget.

The pension will always be more or less locked because old people vote, and as the % of old people increases, their voting power increases, so it will be increasingly harder to lower the value of the state pension.

Raising taxes has obvious problems, documented everywhere in any kind of economic literature, even if we start taxing up to max laffer, it's incredibly difficult, as working-age people vote, and they hate being taxed. Instead of using that tax money for something fruitful we have to end up subsidising Asda so boomers can buy biscuits or tennents or whatever they're going to consume as pensioners in 10 years.

The state might have to borrow to pay the pension. That's bad, basically. It's not as bad as its sounds, but still bad. Other things being cut in the budget also bad.

The other solution is suddenly that everyone in the tax-paying bracket becomes ultra productive. That's unlikely since our MFP has more or less stalled and shows little sign of increasing, let alone increasingly rapidly.

Basically, pensions have to be privatised or we have to start pumping out tonnes of kids, and fast, and soon, preferably both. Or we could just ignore it and focus on much less important problems instead in order to mobilise an electorate so that we can stay in power.
Last edited by Questarian New Yorkshire on Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
REST IN PEACE RWDT & LWDT
I'm just a poor wayfaring stranger, traveling through this world below
There is no sickness, no toil, nor danger, in that bright land to which I go
I'm going there to see my Father, and all my loved ones who've gone on
I'm only going over Jordan, I'm only going over home

I know dark clouds will gather 'round me, I know my way is hard and steep
But beauteous fields arise before me, where God's redeemed, their vigils keep

User avatar
Platypus Bureaucracy
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1763
Founded: Jun 06, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Platypus Bureaucracy » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:36 am

Feed the rich to the old.
Platypus of the non-venomous, egg-laying variety
Platypus Bureaucracy wrote:I will never stop being a gay platypus.

The Huskar Social Union wrote:You glorifted ducking wanabe sea pheasant

Platapusses are not rel

Ostroeuropa wrote:"Can we just eat SOME of the rich?"

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44957
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:37 am

Platypus Bureaucracy wrote:Feed the rich to the old.

Automate everything and free humanity from the tyranny of labor.
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.


Historian, of sorts.

Effortposts can be found here!

User avatar
Nakena
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15010
Founded: May 06, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Nakena » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:41 am

Makes me wonder how many percent of the population still lived or remember WW2 first hand.

User avatar
Questarian New Yorkshire
Minister
 
Posts: 3158
Founded: Nov 08, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Questarian New Yorkshire » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:48 am

Platypus Bureaucracy wrote:Feed the rich to the old.
It works if you have more rich people than old people.

But if you had more rich people than old people, this wouldn't be a problem.
Last edited by Questarian New Yorkshire on Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
REST IN PEACE RWDT & LWDT
I'm just a poor wayfaring stranger, traveling through this world below
There is no sickness, no toil, nor danger, in that bright land to which I go
I'm going there to see my Father, and all my loved ones who've gone on
I'm only going over Jordan, I'm only going over home

I know dark clouds will gather 'round me, I know my way is hard and steep
But beauteous fields arise before me, where God's redeemed, their vigils keep

User avatar
Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18661
Founded: May 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:49 am

Questarian New Yorkshire wrote:Sure but I don't think that's a huge amount of people.

I've seen it estimated at 2 million.

The thing I really don't understand the media silence about is the loan charge, people have killed themselves over that tax policy.
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

User avatar
Dooom35796821595
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9309
Founded: Sep 11, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Dooom35796821595 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:50 am

Questarian New Yorkshire wrote:
Platypus Bureaucracy wrote:Feed the rich to the old.
It works if you have more rich people than old people.

But if you had more rich people than old people, this wouldn't be a problem.


We have lots of poor people.
When life gives you lemons, you BURN THEIR HOUSE DOWN!
Anything can be justified if it is cool. If at first you don't succeed, destroy all in your way.
"Your methods are stupid! Your progress has been stupid! Your intelligence is stupid! For the sake of the mission, you must be terminated!”

User avatar
The Huskar Social Union
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59294
Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:52 am

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
Questarian New Yorkshire wrote: It works if you have more rich people than old people.

But if you had more rich people than old people, this wouldn't be a problem.


We have lots of poor people.

I'd rather not be fed to some old fuck thanks.
Irish Nationalist from Belfast / Leftwing / Atheist / Alliance Party voter
"I never thought in terms of being a leader, i thought very simply in terms of helping people" - John Hume 1937 - 2020



I like Miniature painting, Tanks, English Gals, Video games and most importantly Cheese.


User avatar
Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 42051
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:55 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Questarian New Yorkshire wrote:Sure but I don't think that's a huge amount of people.

I've seen it estimated at 2 million.

The thing I really don't understand the media silence about is the loan charge, people have killed themselves over that tax policy.


They killed themselves over being forced to pay income tax?

User avatar
Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18661
Founded: May 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:56 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
Dooom35796821595 wrote:
We have lots of poor people.

I'd rather not be fed to some old fuck thanks.

Getting rich is always an option.
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

User avatar
Dooom35796821595
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9309
Founded: Sep 11, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Dooom35796821595 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:57 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
Dooom35796821595 wrote:
We have lots of poor people.

I'd rather not be fed to some old fuck thanks.


I doubt a senior would want to engage in cannibalism either, but the rich would likley be to fatty and...well rich.
When life gives you lemons, you BURN THEIR HOUSE DOWN!
Anything can be justified if it is cool. If at first you don't succeed, destroy all in your way.
"Your methods are stupid! Your progress has been stupid! Your intelligence is stupid! For the sake of the mission, you must be terminated!”

User avatar
Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18661
Founded: May 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:00 am

Fartsniffage wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:I've seen it estimated at 2 million.

The thing I really don't understand the media silence about is the loan charge, people have killed themselves over that tax policy.


They killed themselves over being forced to pay income tax?

Essentially if you don't understand the loan charge, it comes down to this:
1. When IR35 was being introduced, groups of accountants set up a tax scheme for their clients, the actual details of I don't know much about.
2. Inland revenue ticked it off as being legal
3. Multiple tax lawyers confirmed it as being legal
4. People signed up to these schemes.
5. These people submitted about 15 years of tax returns which were all deemed to be fine.
6. Revenue and customs suddenly decides they're not fine, and sends advanced penalty notices to people often for hundreds of thousands of pounds, which includes the tax (which they've already deemed legal), charges (for doing something they have deemed to be legal?), and interest (just as a further kick in the teeth.)
7. People can't just pay hundreds of thousands of pounds to the taxman in one go, naturally. It has ruined lives and (at last check) 6 people have committed suicide.
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 163895
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:05 am

Platypus Bureaucracy wrote:Feed the rich to the old.

Get high on the Scots.
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

User avatar
Taihei Tengoku
Senator
 
Posts: 4851
Founded: Dec 15, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Taihei Tengoku » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:54 am

can't wait until the City gets mortgaged to JP Morgan
REST IN POWER
Franberry - HMS Barham - North Point - Questers - Tyrandis - Rosbaningrad - Sharfghotten
UNJUSTLY DELETED
OUR DAY WILL COME

User avatar
Taihei Tengoku
Senator
 
Posts: 4851
Founded: Dec 15, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Taihei Tengoku » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:03 pm

Souseiseki wrote:the laffer curve is a napkin theory that is meaningless in practice because no one can figure out how to actually plot it or whether it even exists outside cartoonish extremes because of economists consistent struggles with empiricism

best leave policy to generalites instead
REST IN POWER
Franberry - HMS Barham - North Point - Questers - Tyrandis - Rosbaningrad - Sharfghotten
UNJUSTLY DELETED
OUR DAY WILL COME

User avatar
Salandriagado
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22831
Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Salandriagado » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:25 pm

The Huskar Social Union wrote:We check every £50 note we get at my work cuz they are soo rare to see, have not found a fake one yet though.


Of course not: everybody knows they get checked, so fake other things.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

User avatar
Salandriagado
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22831
Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Salandriagado » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:27 pm

Ifreann wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:We check every £50 note we get at my work cuz they are soo rare to see, have not found a fake one yet though.

Aren't there loads of fake £1 coins or something?


The old £1 coin was the most forged coin in all of human history. This is partly due to it being a very simple, relatively high-value coin, and partly due to one of the stupidest decisions in our government's history, and that's saying something.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

User avatar
Salandriagado
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22831
Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Salandriagado » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:28 pm

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:
Souseiseki wrote:it's almost like boris jonhson is some kind of bufoon


That's a carefully constructed mask, to cover his ambition and lack of attention to detail.


So you're saying that behind the mask of total incompetence, there's a total incompetent.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 163895
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:28 pm

Salandriagado wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:We check every £50 note we get at my work cuz they are soo rare to see, have not found a fake one yet though.


Of course not: everybody knows they get checked, so fake other things.

Fake £100s *nods*
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

User avatar
Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 42051
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:29 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Of course not: everybody knows they get checked, so fake other things.

Fake £100s *nods*


No one accepts Scottish notes anyway :P

User avatar
The Huskar Social Union
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59294
Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:32 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Fake £100s *nods*


No one accepts Scottish notes anyway :P

We get a fair few over here, lots of Clydesdale bank notes
Irish Nationalist from Belfast / Leftwing / Atheist / Alliance Party voter
"I never thought in terms of being a leader, i thought very simply in terms of helping people" - John Hume 1937 - 2020



I like Miniature painting, Tanks, English Gals, Video games and most importantly Cheese.


User avatar
Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 42051
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:38 pm

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
No one accepts Scottish notes anyway :P

We get a fair few over here, lots of Clydesdale bank notes


An old friend of mine was from Edinburgh and he hated coming back the Manchester with Scottish notes because no one would take them. I had the same issue with a twenty when I spent a while in Dundee then came back.

User avatar
Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18661
Founded: May 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:22 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:We get a fair few over here, lots of Clydesdale bank notes


An old friend of mine was from Edinburgh and he hated coming back the Manchester with Scottish notes because no one would take them. I had the same issue with a twenty when I spent a while in Dundee then came back.

I really only have that issue with taxis and very small shops.
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

User avatar
Dooom35796821595
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9309
Founded: Sep 11, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Dooom35796821595 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:03 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:We get a fair few over here, lots of Clydesdale bank notes


An old friend of mine was from Edinburgh and he hated coming back the Manchester with Scottish notes because no one would take them. I had the same issue with a twenty when I spent a while in Dundee then came back.


Infuriating, isn’t it? I still haven’t found a shop that takes Monopoly money. :p
When life gives you lemons, you BURN THEIR HOUSE DOWN!
Anything can be justified if it is cool. If at first you don't succeed, destroy all in your way.
"Your methods are stupid! Your progress has been stupid! Your intelligence is stupid! For the sake of the mission, you must be terminated!”

User avatar
Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18661
Founded: May 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:06 pm

As many as 10 labour mps would back a no deal over no Brexit:

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... d71ddb072f
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Cerespasia, Cerula, Dogmeat, East Leaf Republic, Emotional Support Crocodile, Enormous Gentiles, Entropan, Hidrandia, Republics of the Solar Union, Tungstan

Advertisement

Remove ads