Transgender Peaceful Protest Advocate Kept in Men's Prison

[Nakena]

While I am deeply skeptical of the whole trans thing, mostly because of the hysterical behavior of its advocates when any sort of discussion comes up that doesn't match their social constructionist world view, I am open to the idea that one can psychologically be different from one's biology. That doesn't mean people get to pretend that biological male and female don't exist.

It depends on the perspective. I for one that theres a sort of duality inside each one of us between the feminine and the masculine. Sort of yin and yang, metaphorically speaking. Achiving a or already possessing a natural harmony or balance between those two poles is not given to anyone and some even have struggles inside. Nor are they always fixedly set and sometimes in motion. That is because we as humans beings aren't always - way beyond gender - as clearly defined as we might or like to believe and yet we try to put ourselfs into fixed categories in our desperate effort to give us and the universe where we live more structure, to give us an illusion of shielding us from its inherent uncertainities.

[Cekoviu]

Right, but why should the law consider her a man? There's not a real reason for it other than "hurr amab," which is pretty irrelevant in the face of all of the rest of her traits.

That's Egyptian society. I assume the vast majority of Egyptians who know her background would consider her a man. They are extremely transphobic and homophobic after all.

Not really a reason to put her at risk of death.

[Arlenton]

That's Egyptian society. I assume the vast majority of Egyptians who know her background would consider her a man. They are extremely transphobic and homophobic after all.

Not really a reason to put her at risk of death.

Maybe not. But who decides who goes to which prison?

[Scomagia]

While I am deeply skeptical of the whole trans thing, mostly because of the hysterical behavior of its advocates when any sort of discussion comes up that doesn't match their social constructionist world view, I am open to the idea that one can psychologically be different from one's biology. That doesn't mean people get to pretend that biological male and female don't exist.

It depends on the perspective. I for one that theres a sort of duality inside each one of us between the feminine and the masculine. Sort of yin and yang, metaphorically speaking. Achiving a or already possessing a natural harmony or balance between those two poles is not given to anyone and some even have struggles inside. Nor are they always fixedly set and sometimes in motion. That is because we as humans beings aren't always - way beyond gender - as clearly defined as we might or like to believe and yet we try to put ourselfs into fixed categories in our desperate effort to give us and the universe where we live more structure, to give us an illusion of shielding us from its inherent uncertainities.

I'm more inclined to agree than disagree with what you're saying. Metaphorical or philosophical masculine and feminine are present in each of us.

[Cekoviu]

Not really a reason to put her at risk of death.

Maybe not. But who decides who goes to which prison?

Presumably whoever did it in the first place. The issue is that she couldn't change her legal gender, which ought to be the decider of gender segregation in prisons.

[Tornado Queendom]

I don't usually make OPs, so I hope this isn't a bad one.

Amnesty International:

Fears are growing for the safety and wellbeing of Malak al-Kashef, a transgender woman seized during a police raid from her home in Giza in the early hours of 6 March and who has not been heard from since, Amnesty International said.

Malak al-Kashef was taken by police to an undisclosed location. Her lawyers have not been able to locate her and police stations have denied she is in their custody.

“There are real fears for the physical safety and psychological wellbeing of Malak al-Kashef. Egyptian authorities have a horrific track record of persecuting people based on their sexual orientation and gender identity, including through carrying out forced anal examinations which amount to torture,” said Magdalena Mughrabi, Deputy Middle East and North Africa Director at Amnesty International.

Amnesty International believes that Malak’s arrest relates to her calls for peaceful protests following a major train crash in Cairo’s central train station on 27 February that killed at least 25 people.

“Malak al-Kashef appears to have been detained solely for peacefully exercising her rights to freedom of expression and peaceful assembly. Instead of holding her in an undisclosed location, the authorities should release her immediately and unconditionally,” said Magdalena Mughrabi.

“Due to her gender identity, Malak is at increased risk of torture by the police, including rape and sexual violence, as well as assault by other detainees. The Egyptian authorities are responsible for her physical and psychological safety. They must immediately reveal her whereabouts, and pending her immediate and unconditional release, ensure that she is protected from torture and other abuses.”

Dozens of people have been arrested in recent days over anti-government protests relating to last week’s train crash that killed at least 25 people and injured many others. At least 32 people remain in pre-trial detention over unfounded charges relating to the peaceful expression of their opinions.

Malak al-Kashef is a transgender woman who is undergoing gender affirming surgery. However, she has not yet managed to have her gender identity officially recognized and is therefore registered as male in official documents. Her lawyers have sent appeals to the office of the Public Prosecutor and the Minister of Interior asking about her whereabouts.

In recent years, Egypt’s authorities have waged a sinister campaign targeting LGBTI people and carried out dozens of arrests and forced anal examinations in blatant violation of international law.

Update:

On 7 March Malak al-Kashef appeared in front of a Supreme State Security Prosecutor, who ordered her detention for 15 days pending investigations for “aiding a terrorist organization” and “misusing social media to commit a crime punishable by law”. The police then took her to an undisclosed location, where they detained her incommunicado until 10 March, when her lawyer was able to confirm that the police is detaining her in solitary confinement at al-Haram police station in Giza. Her detention is up for renewal again on 19 March, when the prosecutor will decide whether to release her or extend her detention.

"Egypt: Forcibly disappeared transgender woman at risk of sexual violence and torture"

I also recommend you watch Mr Atheist's video which provides two solutions if you would like to help.

This is absolutely disgusting. Not only is she being arrested for something that shouldn't even be illegal period, but now they want to imprison her with men knowing how much of a living hell it is for trans women in male prisons, which they shouldn't even be doing in the first place since they're not men. It's clear what's going to happen if they put her in gen pop. This definitely needs more attention.

What do you think, NSG?

I actually don't think this is such a bad idea, because the whole idea of splitting based on gender and then being able to go into the other gender's space just because you cut your willy off is just lame. However, I'm not exactly the most transphobic person in the world. Thus, I'd say this: either you base it on biology or you abolish gender segregation.
(Originally, it said "Thus, I'd say that a tax for going to the other gender's area is a good idea. I'll call it the "Trans Tax," and it's the option that will please the most people." I realized that this isn't the best idea.)

[Arlenton]

Maybe not. But who decides who goes to which prison?

Presumably whoever did it in the first place. The issue is that she couldn't change her legal gender, which ought to be the decider of gender segregation in prisons.

That could mean people can choose whichever prison they want. Doesn't seem like a good alternative.

[The neo glactic empire]

While it is very wrong to put someone in prison for protest(peaceful)
Egypt doesnt recognise sex change(gender and sex are the same thing your alowed to dissagree)
Thus if he is biologically male they well jail him at a male prison

[Cekoviu]

Presumably whoever did it in the first place. The issue is that she couldn't change her legal gender, which ought to be the decider of gender segregation in prisons.

That could mean people can choose whichever prison they want. Doesn't seem like a good alternative.

Legal gender changes in most places allowing them require some evidence of transition or intent to transition. Undergoing "gender affirming surgery," as the source says, is generally sufficient evidence to change legal gender in the stricter places (though that should certainly not be the bar, since a lot of trans people cannot afford $20-100k for SRS). In less strict countries and jurisdictions, a psychiatrist's or doctor's note confirming a gender dysphoria diagnosis is all that is needed.
In either case, somebody can't just easily change their gender because they want to go to a prison with the opposite gender.

[Arlenton]

That could mean people can choose whichever prison they want. Doesn't seem like a good alternative.

Legal gender changes in most places allowing them require some evidence of transition or intent to transition. Undergoing "gender affirming surgery," as the source says, is generally sufficient evidence to change legal gender in the stricter places (though that should certainly not be the bar, since a lot of trans people cannot afford $20-100k for SRS). In less strict countries and jurisdictions, a psychiatrist's or doctor's note confirming a gender dysphoria diagnosis is all that is needed.
In either case, somebody can't just easily change their gender because they want to go to a prison with the opposite gender.

A good point. That should be considered to a degree. I doubt that will happen in Egypt though.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

While it is very wrong to put someone in prison for protest(peaceful)
Egypt doesnt recognise sex change(gender and sex are the same thing your alowed to dissagree)
Thus if he is biologically male they well jail him at a male prison

Sex and gender are not synonyms. Biological sex usually refers to the biological differences between the different sexes (which is a spectrum). Gender refers to things like societal expectations, male and female gender roles. Those roles also exist on a spectrum, as well as their expected behaviours, which includes your sexuality. What gender you are does not need a basis in the physical world, which is why sex and gender are different things.

You might not agree, but you'd have to agree that it's pretty handy to have different terms to describe societal views of gender roles and biological differences between man and women, because clearly those are not as strongly linked as we used to believe.

If you believe sex and gender should be synonyms, then you should come up with a word to describe what gender describes, or you are trying to change language to fit your worldview.

[Cekoviu]

Legal gender changes in most places allowing them require some evidence of transition or intent to transition. Undergoing "gender affirming surgery," as the source says, is generally sufficient evidence to change legal gender in the stricter places (though that should certainly not be the bar, since a lot of trans people cannot afford $20-100k for SRS). In less strict countries and jurisdictions, a psychiatrist's or doctor's note confirming a gender dysphoria diagnosis is all that is needed.
In either case, somebody can't just easily change their gender because they want to go to a prison with the opposite gender.

A good point. That should be considered to a degree. I doubt that will happen in Egypt though.

Unfortunately, you are correct. Even if the government were to be a pro-LGBT one, there would still be many much more important concerns to them than creating a system by which trans people could change their gender.

[Chernoslavia]

Egypt is a awful nasty place those days. Argueably worse than some other countries in the region.

those days?

[Paleoconservative Citizens]

Here is my opinion on this matter.
He was born a Male, and He is still a Male.

If I said I was a giraffe, does that make me a giraffe? No.
What if I got surgery to make me look like a giraffe? No, I am still a Human.

So why should a Guy (or Girl) say they are the opposite Gender, and be accepted as such?
Even if they get surgery, they are still their original sex, or as I say, Gender.

So putting this Man in a Male prison only makes sense!

Imagine if some sick man said he was a woman and was put into a female prison?
If he has malicious intentions, then that is not safe for the women.

[Cekoviu]

Here is my opinion on this matter.
He was born a Male, and He is still a Male.

If I said I was a giraffe, does that make me a giraffe? No.
What if I got surgery to make me look like a giraffe? No, I am still a Human.

So why should a Guy (or Girl) say they are the opposite Gender, and be accepted as such?
Even if they get surgery, they are still their original sex, or as I say, Gender.

So putting this Man in a Male prison only makes sense!

Imagine if some sick man said he was a woman and was put into a female prison?
If he has malicious intentions, then that is not safe for the women.

The formatting in this is just horrendous, yikes.
I'm going to pretentiously quote myself, as this is relevant to your last two sentences (which are quite misandrist, by the way):

That could mean people can choose whichever prison they want. Doesn't seem like a good alternative.

Legal gender changes in most places allowing them require some evidence of transition or intent to transition. Undergoing "gender affirming surgery," as the source says, is generally sufficient evidence to change legal gender in the stricter places (though that should certainly not be the bar, since a lot of trans people cannot afford $20-100k for SRS). In less strict countries and jurisdictions, a psychiatrist's or doctor's note confirming a gender dysphoria diagnosis is all that is needed.
In either case, somebody can't just easily change their gender because they want to go to a prison with the opposite gender.

[First American Empire]

Here is my opinion on this matter.
He was born a Male, and He is still a Male.

If I said I was a giraffe, does that make me a giraffe? No.
What if I got surgery to make me look like a giraffe? No, I am still a Human.

So why should a Guy (or Girl) say they are the opposite Gender, and be accepted as such?
Even if they get surgery, they are still their original sex, or as I say, Gender.

So putting this Man in a Male prison only makes sense!

Imagine if some sick man said he was a woman and was put into a female prison?
If he has malicious intentions, then that is not safe for the women.

I'm a trans woman. The only real difference between me and a cisgender woman who's had a hysterectomy is chromosomes. Which basically don't do anything once you're already born.

[Kowani]

Here is my opinion on this matter.
He was born a Male, and He is still a Male.

If I said I was a giraffe, does that make me a giraffe? No.
What if I got surgery to make me look like a giraffe? No, I am still a Human.

So why should a Guy (or Girl) say they are the opposite Gender, and be accepted as such?
Even if they get surgery, they are still their original sex, or as I say, Gender.

So putting this Man in a Male prison only makes sense!

Imagine if some sick man said he was a woman and was put into a female prison?
If he has malicious intentions, then that is not safe for the women.

Reminder that sex and gender aren’t the same thing.

[Highever]

Here is my opinion on this matter.
He was born a Male, and He is still a Male.

If I said I was a giraffe, does that make me a giraffe? No.
What if I got surgery to make me look like a giraffe? No, I am still a Human.

So why should a Guy (or Girl) say they are the opposite Gender, and be accepted as such?
Even if they get surgery, they are still their original sex, or as I say, Gender.

So putting this Man in a Male prison only makes sense!

Imagine if some sick man said he was a woman and was put into a female prison?
If he has malicious intentions, then that is not safe for the women.

I am sure you don't realize this, but the legal changing of ones gender is just a bit more complex than someone saying they are the opposite gender.

[Crockerland]

Here is my opinion on this matter.
He was born a Male, and He is still a Male.

If I said I was a giraffe, does that make me a giraffe? No.
What if I got surgery to make me look like a giraffe? No, I am still a Human.

So why should a Guy (or Girl) say they are the opposite Gender, and be accepted as such?
Even if they get surgery, they are still their original sex, or as I say, Gender.

So putting this Man in a Male prison only makes sense!

Imagine if some sick man said he was a woman and was put into a female prison?
If he has malicious intentions, then that is not safe for the women.

Well despite what you'd like us to believe with that fearmongering, Transgender people are almost always the victims of abuse and violence in prison, not the perpetrators.

I am sure you don't realize this, but the legal changing of ones gender is just a bit more complex than someone saying they are the opposite gender.

Maybe in the US, but there is no legal changing of one's gender in Egypt. I don't know of Egyptian law making any distinction between men (at least the ones who were born men) and transgender women.

[Lanoraie II]

I don't see what the problem is if prisons are split up based on what you were born as/whats in your pants. (Or not in your pants/previously in your pants)

[Necroghastia]

I don't see what the problem is if prisons are split up based on what you were born as/whats in your pants. (Or not in your pants/previously in your pants)

It's honestly not that hard to see what the problem is with a woman being put in a mens' prison.

[Cekoviu]

I don't see what the problem is if prisons are split up based on what you were born as/whats in your pants. (Or not in your pants/previously in your pants)

But they shouldn't be segregated based on what genitals you had at birth. It's entirely unrealistic and dangerous. That's the issue, not that we want them to make an exception specifically for her and not for any other trans people.

[Scomagia]

Here is my opinion on this matter.
He was born a Male, and He is still a Male.

If I said I was a giraffe, does that make me a giraffe? No.
What if I got surgery to make me look like a giraffe? No, I am still a Human.

So why should a Guy (or Girl) say they are the opposite Gender, and be accepted as such?
Even if they get surgery, they are still their original sex, or as I say, Gender.

So putting this Man in a Male prison only makes sense!

Imagine if some sick man said he was a woman and was put into a female prison?
If he has malicious intentions, then that is not safe for the women.

I'm a trans woman. The only real difference between me and a cisgender woman who's had a hysterectomy is chromosomes. Which basically don't do anything once you're already born.

That is inaccurate. MtF trans have denser bones than women, as well as higher tendon and ligament strength. This is why, no offense, you shouldn't be allowed to compete in combat sports with women.

I'm not trying to be rude. I'm just pointing out that it is not really accurate to say there's no difference.

[Grenartia]

I'm a trans woman. The only real difference between me and a cisgender woman who's had a hysterectomy is chromosomes. Which basically don't do anything once you're already born.

That is inaccurate. MtF trans have denser bones than women, as well as higher tendon and ligament strength. This is why, no offense, you shouldn't be allowed to compete in combat sports with women.

I'm not trying to be rude. I'm just pointing out that it is not really accurate to say there's no difference.

And yet, "muh bone density" doesn't seem to make up for the loss of muscle tone. As I recall, quite a few studies have shown that trans women who have transitioned have no real advantage over cis women in sports.

[Scomagia]

That is inaccurate. MtF trans have denser bones than women, as well as higher tendon and ligament strength. This is why, no offense, you shouldn't be allowed to compete in combat sports with women.

I'm not trying to be rude. I'm just pointing out that it is not really accurate to say there's no difference.

And yet, "muh bone density" doesn't seem to make up for the loss of muscle tone. As I recall, quite a few studies have shown that trans women who have transitioned have no real advantage over cis women in sports.

I said combat sports. In combat sports increased bone density and tendon strength is a very real advantage, whether muscular strength is decreased or not. While total power output is decreased, energy transmission is not notably decreased because HRT does not affect ligaments that have already developed. Similarly, higher bone density allows one to absorb and transmit more force when punching and kicking. Bone density is preserved in MtF trans taking both androgen blockers and estrogen.

Outside of combat sports, I'm less concerned.