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Should the Führer bunker in Berlin be opened?

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NERVUN
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Postby NERVUN » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:48 pm

Bonenburg wrote:Well he should have killed the muslims instead of the jews.

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Rio Cana
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Postby Rio Cana » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:48 pm

Heloin wrote:
Tornado Queendom wrote:HELL NO! What if WWE destroyed the Owen Hart fall just because it's bad? It's actually ILLEGAL to destroy the Owen Hart Incident! It clearly says "Do not Play, Copy, or Destroy."

Destroying what's left of the bunker is likely to be like that too. In fact, Nazi artifacts should say "Do not Enter, Rebuild, or Demolish." It'll be cheaper in the long run that way. The bunker's remains can be like that.

It's not just any bunch of concrete, though. It's a historically significant bunch of concrete, which can be useful for historical purposes. What if someone destroyed a development kit just because "it's a bunch of empty data?!" Oh wait, someone already did that.

You're not helping you're case by comparing a useless bunch of concrete things that aren't very important.


Anyone who wants to see German reinforced concrete construction, which during the war was quite good, can go to other parts of Germany and France to see them.

One good structure is that German submarine base in France which the allies could not destroy. In modern times, the French have turned it into a tourist attraction - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keroman_Submarine_Base
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:55 pm

Rio Cana wrote:
Heloin wrote:You're not helping you're case by comparing a useless bunch of concrete things that aren't very important.


Anyone who wants to see German reinforced concrete construction, which during the war was quite good, can go to other parts of Germany and France to see them.


Image

Image

Image
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

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Xmara
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Postby Xmara » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:01 pm

As interesting as it would be to reopen it as a museum, there's not much left of it standing, and it just isn't something worth rebuilding.
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Postby Ifreann » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:07 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
Rio Cana wrote:
Anyone who wants to see German reinforced concrete construction, which during the war was quite good, can go to other parts of Germany and France to see them.


Image

Image

Image

Any of them available for repurposing as a night club?
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:13 pm

Ifreann wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:

Any of them available for repurposing as a night club?

The top one would make for a good Brutalist hotel, but since the fortifications were built with slave labour it would be in exceedingly poor taste. :?
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

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Vetalia
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Postby Vetalia » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:01 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
Vetalia wrote:
Yeah, but he was also one of the Ghostbusters so that balances things out.

A real tragedy. He could bust ghosts but he couldn't bust the crippling financial mess of the GDR...

:p


Designing the proton pack to protect NYC from ghosts takes a lot of a man's energies, plus dealing with Zuul and Vigo the Carpathian? You expect the man to worry about a crappy Warsaw Pact puppet state when ancient Babylonian gods and Vigo are afoot?
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An Alan Smithee Nation
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Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:34 am

Ifreann wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:
Image

Image

Image

Any of them available for repurposing as a night club?


The Guernsey Aquarium was in a German tunnel which was great. The underground hospitals are also worth a visit, very creepy. There are definitely some that are privately owned, and others that have been closed off. Used to play in them as a child.

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New Bremerton
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Postby New Bremerton » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:41 am

And have LARPers re-enact Downfall parodies? That would be... interesting.

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Postby Risottia » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:45 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:As someone living in Berlin. Nah, most of it has been destroyed. Fully rebuilding it would seriously disrupt the city centre.

And it would attract neonazis.


I see it as a bonus.

Rebuild Führerbunker.
Nazis get in.
Nazis are not allowed to get out anymore. :D
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:52 am

Risottia wrote:
The Blaatschapen wrote:As someone living in Berlin. Nah, most of it has been destroyed. Fully rebuilding it would seriously disrupt the city centre.

And it would attract neonazis.


I see it as a bonus.

Rebuild Führerbunker.
Nazis get in.
Nazis are not allowed to get out anymore. :D


Hitler's remains are washed away in the Elbe. Can't we just put nazis there as well? Washed out to sea. Let Helgoland deal with it :)

It doesn't ruin my commute to work that way.
Last edited by The Blaatschapen on Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Stalliongrad and Far-Eastern Territories » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:55 am

The whole complex is all but destroyed, the whole thing would need to be rebuilt. I don't think the kind of expense involved would be justified, particularly as all you'd get out of it in the end would be a monument to Hitler.

The bunker should stay buried, and probably be pumped full of concrete for good measure.
Last edited by Stalliongrad and Far-Eastern Territories on Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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-Ocelot-
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Postby -Ocelot- » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:42 am

Ifreann wrote:Nah, you'd just get a load of Nazis going there and being weird.


Exactly. Germany would shot itself in the foot by renovating a place that's guaranteed to attract neo-nazis from across the world.

New Bremerton wrote:And have LARPers re-enact Downfall parodies? That would be... interesting.


On a second thought....
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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:52 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Risottia wrote:
I see it as a bonus.

Rebuild Führerbunker.
Nazis get in.
Nazis are not allowed to get out anymore. :D


Hitler's remains are washed away in the Elbe. Can't we just put nazis there as well? Washed out to sea. Let Helgoland deal with it :)

It doesn't ruin my commute to work that way.


But then the cods in the North Sea would eat Nazis, and the Brits would have to eat Nazi-flavoured fish & chips.
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The Blaatschapen
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:53 am

For a moment, I was not sure what Downfall was.

Then I googled it.

I know it by its German name :blush:
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:01 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:For a moment, I was not sure what Downfall was.

Then I googled it.

I know it by its German name :blush:

Der Untergang.

And the idea of turning the bunker into a museum is complete durchfall.
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:20 pm

Ifreann wrote:Nah, you'd just get a load of Nazis going there and being weird.


Isn't that already the case for concentration camps and ww2 museums?
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

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Loben The 2nd
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Postby Loben The 2nd » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:21 pm

Personally i believe a replica could be built in a state park complete with audio tours or some shit.

The Fuhrer bunker in Berlin is more a grave and should not be disturbed.

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Postby Side 3 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:27 pm

I don't even think it can be safely opened anymore. It's been blown up and is now being used practically as foundation for other buildings. Also, God only knows what state it's in if it can be safely opened.
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Bonenburg
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Postby Bonenburg » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:54 pm

Oke i see two arguments against opening. The one is that it will become a nazi shrine and other has to be that is barely existing.
I don't see the reason why Germany needs to hide all its nazi past. History should be seen with glasses of that time and not the political correct version of 2019. Yes Hitler did horrible things and he made the mistake of invading Russia when he should have invaded England first.
Even if it became a nazi shrine, you should take a look at Predappio the birthplace of Mussoline where this a musuem dedicated to him and the whole town is basicly a Mussoline pride city.

If it's just some concrete and nothing is left it might be too hard rebuilding it.

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Postby Bear Stearns » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:55 pm

What is there to rebuild? As I understand it there is barely any of it left.
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Bonenburg
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Postby Bonenburg » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:56 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:What is there to rebuild? As I understand it there is barely any of it left.

You could just build an entrance and make a smaller replica.

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Postby Highever » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:01 pm

Bonenburg wrote:Oke i see two arguments against opening. The one is that it will become a nazi shrine and other has to be that is barely existing.
I don't see the reason why Germany needs to hide all its nazi past. History should be seen with glasses of that time and not the political correct version of 2019. Yes Hitler did horrible things and he made the mistake of invading Russia when he should have invaded England first.
Even if it became a nazi shrine, you should take a look at Predappio the birthplace of Mussoline where this a musuem dedicated to him and the whole town is basicly a Mussoline pride city.

If it's just some concrete and nothing is left it might be too hard rebuilding it.

I think that might be one of the most dismissive descriptions of Hitler's actions; "yeah yeah he just did bad things and invaded the wrong country". Its not like the Kriegsmarine was a joke and stood no chance in handling the logistics of somehow defeating the Royal Navy and allowing a naval invasion to occur. The capacity was nonexistent and it was an impossible undertaking.

But also what is your point with the later bit? Using something that became a fascist shrine to demonstrate to those who do not want something to become a nazi shrine that it....won't become a nazi shrine...?
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Postby Chernoslavia » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:08 pm

Loben The 2nd wrote:Personally i believe a replica could be built in a state park complete with audio tours or some shit.

The Fuhrer bunker in Berlin is more a grave and should not be disturbed.


I'm pretty sure they burned him to ashes outside of it after committing suicide, tho.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

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Bonenburg
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Postby Bonenburg » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:12 pm

Highever wrote:
Bonenburg wrote:Oke i see two arguments against opening. The one is that it will become a nazi shrine and other has to be that is barely existing.
I don't see the reason why Germany needs to hide all its nazi past. History should be seen with glasses of that time and not the political correct version of 2019. Yes Hitler did horrible things and he made the mistake of invading Russia when he should have invaded England first.
Even if it became a nazi shrine, you should take a look at Predappio the birthplace of Mussoline where this a musuem dedicated to him and the whole town is basicly a Mussoline pride city.

If it's just some concrete and nothing is left it might be too hard rebuilding it.

I think that might be one of the most dismissive descriptions of Hitler's actions; "yeah yeah he just did bad things and invaded the wrong country". Its not like the Kriegsmarine was a joke and stood no chance in handling the logistics of somehow defeating the Royal Navy and allowing a naval invasion to occur. The capacity was nonexistent and it was an impossible undertaking.

But also what is your point with the later bit? Using something that became a fascist shrine to demonstrate to those who do not want something to become a nazi shrine that it....won't become a nazi shrine...?

No I think the nazi shrine argument seems ridiculous , most Germans are not nazis. The few neo nazis that will visit are not gonna be a problem, the antifacists cause way more violence, deaths and injuries in their riots than the neo nazis who just wear nazi related clothes. The anti facists are always attacking the real facists but the media always shows a pro political report that disturbs the truth.

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