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Should the Führer bunker in Berlin be opened?

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Highever
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Postby Highever » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:19 pm

Bonenburg wrote:
Highever wrote:I think that might be one of the most dismissive descriptions of Hitler's actions; "yeah yeah he just did bad things and invaded the wrong country". Its not like the Kriegsmarine was a joke and stood no chance in handling the logistics of somehow defeating the Royal Navy and allowing a naval invasion to occur. The capacity was nonexistent and it was an impossible undertaking.

But also what is your point with the later bit? Using something that became a fascist shrine to demonstrate to those who do not want something to become a nazi shrine that it....won't become a nazi shrine...?

No I think the nazi shrine argument seems ridiculous , most Germans are not nazis. The few neo nazis that will visit are not gonna be a problem, the antifacists cause way more violence, deaths and injuries in their riots than the neo nazis who just wear nazi related clothes. The anti facists are always attacking the real facists but the media always shows a pro political report that disturbs the truth.

And most Italians are not fascists. And yet, by your own claim, it has become a fascist shrine, so it is hardly at all a ridiculous argument to say the same will happen in Germany.

I am not even going to get into your whataboutism nonsense as it is not the topic of the thread.
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Bonenburg
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Postby Bonenburg » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:22 pm

Highever wrote:
Bonenburg wrote:No I think the nazi shrine argument seems ridiculous , most Germans are not nazis. The few neo nazis that will visit are not gonna be a problem, the antifacists cause way more violence, deaths and injuries in their riots than the neo nazis who just wear nazi related clothes. The anti facists are always attacking the real facists but the media always shows a pro political report that disturbs the truth.

And most Italians are not fascists. And yet, by your own claim, it has become a fascist shrine, so it is hardly at all a ridiculous argument to say the same will happen in Germany.

I am not even going to get into your whataboutism nonsense as it is not the topic of the thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFlgdkSny4I in this dutch documentary you can clearly see it's a shrine to mussolini. My reason was more that it should not even matter, history is more important than political correctness.

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Highever
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Postby Highever » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:25 pm

Bonenburg wrote:
Highever wrote:And most Italians are not fascists. And yet, by your own claim, it has become a fascist shrine, so it is hardly at all a ridiculous argument to say the same will happen in Germany.

I am not even going to get into your whataboutism nonsense as it is not the topic of the thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFlgdkSny4I in this dutch documentary you can clearly see it's a shrine to mussolini. My reason was more that it should not even matter, history is more important than political correctness.

Who was a fascist and terrible individual...so I don't think I am understanding the point here. Are you saying it will instead become a shrine to Hitler as if that is at all better? I don't speak Dutch nor do I have 40 minutes to watch something I cannot understand, but the mausoleum is literally described as a "place of pilgrimage" for fascists in other places.

You can remember history without creating a place of veneration for nazis. Hell, there is plenty of historical information at the current site of the bunker on signs and plaques.
Last edited by Highever on Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Christian Confederation
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Postby Christian Confederation » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:51 pm

I know I'd pay to visit a real German WWII bunker, there like super cool.
But like most structures from the era there super well built but abandoned/ distroyed.
Most bunkers on the Atlantic wall, under Berlin, and the U-boat pins in France are in great shape structualy, but abandoned.

As for the major Structures and bunkers in Berlin and most major citys were demolished or attempted to be demolished.
The Nazis may have done herendus things, but they built some pretty impressive stuff.
The fuhrer bunker was destroyed above ground and now has a parking lot over it, most of the surviving structures are in the Soviet ocupation zone.

Long story short I think it should be opened to tourists, but it probably will not.
If another WWII happened today we would likely better preserve the Structures.
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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:52 pm

I say open it back up and turn it into a gaudy tourist attraction.

You can pose with a LEGO sculpture of Hitler.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:54 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Any of them available for repurposing as a night club?

The top one would make for a good Brutalist hotel, but since the fortifications were built with slave labour it would be in exceedingly poor taste. :?

Slightly too edgy.


An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Any of them available for repurposing as a night club?


The Guernsey Aquarium was in a German tunnel which was great. The underground hospitals are also worth a visit, very creepy. There are definitely some that are privately owned, and others that have been closed off. Used to play in them as a child.

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Highever
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Postby Highever » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:54 pm

Christian Confederation wrote:I know I'd pay to visit a real German WWII bunker, there like super cool.
But like most structures from the era there super well built but abandoned/ distroyed.
Most bunkers on the Atlantic wall, under Berlin, and the U-boat pins in France are in great shape structualy, but abandoned.

As for the major Structures and bunkers in Berlin and most major citys were demolished or attempted to be demolished.
The Nazis may have done herendus things, but they built some pretty impressive stuff.
The fuhrer bunker was destroyed above ground and now has a parking lot over it, most of the surviving structures are in the Soviet ocupation zone.

Long story short I think it should be opened to tourists, but it probably will not.
If another WWII happened today we would likely better preserve the Structures.

Well they must not have been that super well built if they were destroyed.

Regardless though it is not all that strange that most have been destroyed, shunned or otherwise left to just rot rather than restored, considering most of the countries hardly want to remember and restore relics of the period where they were under brutal occupation by the Nazis.
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⚦ Through the souls of your brothers and sisters I take My place amongst the Three; through their pleasure I ascend my Throne. Pleasure, for Pleasure's sake! ⚦
Remember Bloody Sunday
A wise man once said, ("We all dead, fuck it")
There's something in the water
Jolthig wrote:Use Soresu and not Juyo.
Charlie Chaplin wrote:Nothing is permanent in this wicked world, not even our troubles.

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Duhon
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Postby Duhon » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:57 pm

Christian Confederation wrote:I know I'd pay to visit a real German WWII bunker, there like super cool.
But like most structures from the era there super well built but abandoned/ distroyed.
Most bunkers on the Atlantic wall, under Berlin, and the U-boat pins in France are in great shape structualy, but abandoned.

As for the major Structures and bunkers in Berlin and most major citys were demolished or attempted to be demolished.
The Nazis may have done herendus things, but they built some pretty impressive stuff.
The fuhrer bunker was destroyed above ground and now has a parking lot over it, most of the surviving structures are in the Soviet ocupation zone.

Long story short I think it should be opened to tourists, but it probably will not.
If another WWII happened today we would likely better preserve the Structures.


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Christian Confederation
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Postby Christian Confederation » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:03 pm

Highever wrote:
Christian Confederation wrote:I know I'd pay to visit a real German WWII bunker, there like super cool.
But like most structures from the era there super well built but abandoned/ distroyed.
Most bunkers on the Atlantic wall, under Berlin, and the U-boat pins in France are in great shape structualy, but abandoned.

As for the major Structures and bunkers in Berlin and most major citys were demolished or attempted to be demolished.
The Nazis may have done herendus things, but they built some pretty impressive stuff.
The fuhrer bunker was destroyed above ground and now has a parking lot over it, most of the surviving structures are in the Soviet ocupation zone.

Long story short I think it should be opened to tourists, but it probably will not.
If another WWII happened today we would likely better preserve the Structures.

Well they must not have been that super well built if they were destroyed.

Regardless though it is not all that strange that most have been destroyed, shunned or otherwise left to just rot rather than restored, considering most of the countries hardly want to remember and restore relics of the period where they were under brutal occupation by the Nazis.

If I remember correctly it took 4 or 5 attempts to demolish the Fuhrerbunker.

A special bomb was made to take out the U-boat pins but the double roof held.

Everything else were eather demolished and replaced, or just left to the elements otherwise if it servived the War it's still around.
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Neu Leonstein
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Postby Neu Leonstein » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:38 pm

Was there last summer on a walking tour. Can confirm there's a car park in its place. A couple of plaques added recently to help with walking tours, but I don't believe they're official ones. The anticlimactic nature of it works quite well.

And quite frankly, that's plenty enough in that city already. You seriously cannot go to Berlin and think they are trying to cover up that history. There's historic sites turned to museums everywhere and monuments galore. The Bunker would add nothing, and would have to be rebuilt from scratch anyway.

And if you think about it, what do you want visitors to learn from seeing it? There's the old Gestapo headquarters, turned into a short museum experience to help people understand how the Holocaust was put into action. There's the Bendlerblock, where you can learn about Resistance movements, all held together by being in the actual location of the Stauffenberg conspiracy. The Bunker would just be a place to learn about Hitler and the mundane practicalities of living there as the Soviets took Berlin. Which no one needs a museum for.
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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:35 pm

Let's not restore what will become a shrine.
Last edited by LiberNovusAmericae on Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:45 pm, edited 10 times in total.
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Postby Risottia » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:26 pm

Christian Confederation wrote:I know I'd pay to visit a real German WWII bunker, there like super cool.
But like most structures from the era there super well built but abandoned/ distroyed.
Most bunkers on the Atlantic wall, under Berlin, and the U-boat pins in France are in great shape structualy, but abandoned.

Been there, and no, it's just boring, huge reinforced-concrete casemates in various states of disrepair.
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Postby Kowani » Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:52 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Let's not restore what will become a shrine.

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Postby Petrolheadia » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:21 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Let's not restore what will become a shrine.

Nazi buildings become shrines?

Strange that I didn't see any Nazis at the Wolf's Lair...
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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:29 pm

Petrolheadia wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Let's not restore what will become a shrine.

Nazi buildings become shrines?

Strange that I didn't see any Nazis at the Wolf's Lair...

They don't have the same significance as the bunker where Hitler died.
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Postby Petrolheadia » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:24 am

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Petrolheadia wrote:Nazi buildings become shrines?

Strange that I didn't see any Nazis at the Wolf's Lair...

They don't have the same significance as the bunker where Hitler died.

It was one of Hitler's HQs, and the place where they nearly killed him. I'd call that significant as hell.
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Postby Germany-DE » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:31 am

Fuhrerbunker is too dilapidated to be opened, most of the rooms are possibly destroyed and the inside is too unstable for visitors to take a look at without it crashing down on them, I don't see the Fuhrerbunker being opened anytime soon, it's too hazardous and would be very expensive to maintain.

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Postby North German Realm » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:57 am

The last thing Germany needs now is to open up a new site for neonazis to pilgrimage for.
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Postby Nakena » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:59 am

North German Realm wrote:The last thing Germany needs now is to open up a new site for neonazis to pilgrimage for.


They can always go to Brunau am Inn where the birthday house still stands.

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North German Realm
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Postby North German Realm » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:02 am

Nakena wrote:
North German Realm wrote:The last thing Germany needs now is to open up a new site for neonazis to pilgrimage for.


They can always go to Brunau am Inn where the birthday house still stands.

I didn't say there aren't any "pilgrimage sites" already. I said adding a new one would be pointless.
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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:03 am

North German Realm wrote:
Nakena wrote:
They can always go to Brunau am Inn where the birthday house still stands.

I didn't say there aren't any "pilgrimage sites" already. I said adding a new one would be pointless.


I think it would become more of a tourist trap. And probably make a lot of cash and get in the construction costs rather quickly back in. Lots of american and chinese tourists.
Last edited by Nakena on Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Bonenburg
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Postby Bonenburg » Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:47 am

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Let's not restore what will become a shrine.

Sounds like political correct shit to me.

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The Blaatschapen
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:50 am

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Let's not restore what will become a shrine.


And then it will become a battlefield. Because then Antifa neatly knows where the neonazis hang out all the time.

Personally, I prefer peace in the city. The ruckus might make me spill my beer :(
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Bonenburg
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Postby Bonenburg » Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:55 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Let's not restore what will become a shrine.


And then it will become a battlefield. Because then Antifa neatly knows where the neonazis hang out all the time.

Personally, I prefer peace in the city. The ruckus might make me spill my beer :(

Antifa seem like unemployed thugs and the neonazis are also bad. I think neonazis and antifa have more in common than people think. I don't understand how such people can get free all day to hold up a sign.

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Postby The Blaatschapen » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:12 am

Bonenburg wrote:
The Blaatschapen wrote:
And then it will become a battlefield. Because then Antifa neatly knows where the neonazis hang out all the time.

Personally, I prefer peace in the city. The ruckus might make me spill my beer :(

Antifa seem like unemployed thugs and the neonazis are also bad. I think neonazis and antifa have more in common than people think. I don't understand how such people can get free all day to hold up a sign.


Part time jobs.

Easy.
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