California Offers Healthcare Benefits To Illegal Immigrants

[The Emerald Legion]

Nonsense. You're always going to die. Whether you get Healthcare or not. That's not what a 'Right to Life' means. It means people won't deliberately kill you. Not that society is obligated to do everything in it's power to keep you alive.

We aren't talking about keeping brain dead people alive on bypass just for the sake of it, we're talking about people not dying years or decades before their time because they couldn't afford treatment they need to live.

Irrelevant. You are always going to die. Death is inescapable. Maybe you die in a car crash, have a heart attack, or accidentally shoot yourself. Maybe you just get some sort of horrible illness.

Whatever the reason, you are still dead. Your time is not set. You are not promised tomorrow. Again, your right to life means people won't deliberately kill you at any particular moment. It does not mean they have to provide you with whatever necessities you need to live.

[Chernoslavia]

I don't care? Also, it's not a strawman.

When and where have you seen this? If it happens all the time you should be able to give an example easily.

No, because that then I would reveal some of my personal information. And like I said, I can care less if anyone believes me or not.

[Chernoslavia]

Or you just need to take better care of yourself. Your own health is your problem and responsibility and not others. If someone makes poorer choices with regards to nutrition and lifestyle, that is their own fault.

As per usual, your views are fundamentally inaccurate.

How? He isn't wrong. Nobody has to baby you. This country is not a giant daycare center.

[Chernoslavia]

Or you just need to take better care of yourself. Your own health is your problem and responsibility and not others. If someone makes poorer choices with regards to nutrition and lifestyle, that is their own fault.

100% of people would get cancer if they lived long enough, if nothing else kills you first you will get cancer regardless of your lifestyle choices. And that's just one of many diseases that people get regardless of what they do.

Absolute fucking bullshit.

[Kowani]

As per usual, your views are fundamentally inaccurate.

How? He isn't wrong. Nobody has to baby you. This country is not a giant daycare center.

By ignoring the grand part of the population that is unable to make those choices because taking care of oneself is expensive. It is often said in capitalism that someone has to do the unpleasant jobs. This is true. And, even if, for a minute, we transformed every person in society into Einstein, or Salk, or Rockefeller, then they would still not be able to all get a good education. There are people who are poor for no fault of their own, and good living (not luxury living, but basic health) is expensive.

[Kowani]

100% of people would get cancer if they lived long enough, if nothing else kills you first you will get cancer regardless of your lifestyle choices. And that's just one of many diseases that people get regardless of what they do.

Absolute fucking bullshit.

There are diseases which will effect one, regardless of their lifestyle choice. Neurodegenerative ones come to mind, as do many genetic diseases. And in some people who are already genetically predisposed to it, exposure to carcinogens from the outside world would screw them over through no fault of their own.

[Chernoslavia]

They sort of are when people are forced to pay for it.

So are you an ancap or a hypocrite? Either you think it's okay for some things like schools and police to be publicly funded and freely available to the people, in which case you're a hypocrite to say health care as a right is coercion while other things are not (by your logic, judges are oppressed because tax dollars pay their salaries and they can't become private sector judges), or you're an ancap. If you're an ancap, I can't really argue against that other than pointing out that if we had anarcho-capitalism, someone richer than you would hire mercenaries to take your stuff and kill you, and then health care wouldn't be a concern.

Neither, my argument is in response to you people calling this ''a right''. It is not, as Emerald pointed out, the right to life does not mean anyone has to provide you with whatever necessities you need to live. Also, the only law in an Ancap society is the non-aggression principal. So someone hiring mercs to kill me would be illegal.

[Fartsniffage]

We aren't talking about keeping brain dead people alive on bypass just for the sake of it, we're talking about people not dying years or decades before their time because they couldn't afford treatment they need to live.

Irrelevant. You are always going to die. Death is inescapable. Maybe you die in a car crash, have a heart attack, or accidentally shoot yourself. Maybe you just get some sort of horrible illness.

Whatever the reason, you are still dead. Your time is not set. You are not promised tomorrow. Again, your right to life means people won't deliberately kill you at any particular moment. It does not mean they have to provide you with whatever necessities you need to live.

Quitter.

[Ifreann]

If health care is not a right, then life is not a right; you need health care to not die.

Nonsense. You're always going to die...

Speak for yourself.

[Fartsniffage]

100% of people would get cancer if they lived long enough, if nothing else kills you first you will get cancer regardless of your lifestyle choices. And that's just one of many diseases that people get regardless of what they do.

Absolute fucking bullshit.

In fact, the researchers go on to suggest that if people lived long enough then virtually everyone would eventually get cancer, providing they did not die of other causes first.

https://www.nice.org.uk/news/blog/1-in- ... get-cancer

There will always be a few who are immune, just like there are to every human disease. But taken as a whole, everyone will get cancer eventually, it a product of evolution.

[The Emerald Legion]

Nonsense. You're always going to die...

Speak for yourself.

Vampire Illuminati Confirmed.

[Saiwania]

There are diseases which will effect one, regardless of their lifestyle choice. Neurodegenerative ones come to mind, as do many genetic diseases. And in some people who are already genetically predisposed to it, exposure to carcinogens from the outside world would screw them over through no fault of their own.

Life has never been fair and it is partially fate, but generally speaking- you still get presented with enough choices that either pay off or don't in the long term. Everything adds up. So you still decide for the most part, whether you have a good or bad outcome overall. There is no way of knowing whether your path is good or not, you only have yourself to provide your direction and decisions.

I find it more useful to carry the world on my shoulders and endure, than to whine that everything never turned out the way I wanted. I had no control over for example, that my parents were tobacco smokers early on. But they eventually quit and I feel I didn't get much damage secondhand, but I know that I did, just as life in general- has a tendency to give you damage or better health depending on what you do. It all builds up over time, and because no one is perfect- your health is usually blemished deep down anyways.

You aren't going to make it close to the maximum age of 120 unless you did most things right or are plain lucky or both.

[Chernoslavia]

There are diseases which will effect one, regardless of their lifestyle choice. Neurodegenerative ones come to mind, as do many genetic diseases. And in some people who are already genetically predisposed to it, exposure to carcinogens from the outside world would screw them over through no fault of their own.

Life has never been fair and it is partially fate, but generally speaking- you still get presented with enough choices that either pay off or don't in the long term. Everything adds up. So you still decide for the most part, whether you have a good or bad outcome overall. There is no way of knowing whether your path is good or not, you only have yourself to provide your direction and decisions.

I find it more useful to carry the world on my shoulders and endure, than to whine that everything never turned out the way I wanted. I had no control over for example, that my parents were tobacco smokers early on. But they eventually quit and I feel I didn't get much damage secondhand, but I know that I did, just as life in general- has a tendency to give you damage or better health depending on what you do. It all builds up over time, and because no one is perfect- your health is usually blemished deep down anyways.

You aren't going to make it close to the maximum age of 120 unless you did most things right or are plain lucky or both.

Who the heck wants to be 120 anyway?

[Liriena]

Healthcare to illegals before healthcare to all Americans and legal immigrants. Such stupidity.

This is, in fact, a lie.

[Shofercia]

Healthcare to illegals before healthcare to all Americans and legal immigrants. Such stupidity.

This is, in fact, a lie.

Actually it's not. If you're a US Citizen & long term Cali resident over the age of 50, you're less likely to get healthcare in Cali, than if you are an illegal immigrant under the age of 18.

[Great Minarchistan]

Or you just need to take better care of yourself. Your own health is your problem and responsibility and not others. If someone makes poorer choices with regards to nutrition and lifestyle, that is their own fault.

100% of people would get cancer if they lived long enough, if nothing else kills you first you will get cancer regardless of your lifestyle choices. And that's just one of many diseases that people get regardless of what they do.

Yeah, getting cancer doesn't equal death or reduced life quality though cf. stem cell treatments, targeted chemotherapy and general improvement in treatments. We're just digging deeper and deeper into disease treatment (as that's the natural byproduct of the improvement in material conditions anyway) and having our life expectancy getting constantly expanded as a result

[Salandriagado]

Annnnd they are paying for this how?

Really easily, because providing preventative medicine for free makes the government a profit.

[Salandriagado]

Literally no one in favor of universal healthcare is arguing that medical staff should work for free.

Yes they do actually. I see it all the time, not on NSG though and I suspect that's only to avoid coming off as authoritarian.

No, you're just lying.

[Salandriagado]

Health care being a right does not mean anyone is forced to treat you.

Some people decide to become doctors. Those who do can work for the public just as librarians and police officers do. Their wages are paid by taxes. Those who don't want to can quit.

No doctor or nurse is being forced to treat anyone. They don't have a gun to their head, they can quit any time.

They sort of are when people are forced to pay for it.

And those who want to work for the private sector shouldn't be forced to choose between the two choices you mentioned. But nahh, private sector bad because ''muh ebul pharma.''

So which single-payer universal healthcare system bans private hospitals/insurance? I'll give you a hint: there aren't any.

[Chernoslavia]

Yes they do actually. I see it all the time, not on NSG though and I suspect that's only to avoid coming off as authoritarian.

No, you're just lying.

No, you are.

[Chernoslavia]

They sort of are when people are forced to pay for it.

And those who want to work for the private sector shouldn't be forced to choose between the two choices you mentioned. But nahh, private sector bad because ''muh ebul pharma.''

So which single-payer universal healthcare system bans private hospitals/insurance? I'll give you a hint: there aren't any.

Prove that I said they do.

[Salandriagado]

So which single-payer universal healthcare system bans private hospitals/insurance? I'll give you a hint: there aren't any.

Prove where I said they do.

It's literally quoted, right in the fucking post.

[Chernoslavia]

Prove where I said they do.

It's literally quoted, right in the fucking post.

Wrong again.

[Salandriagado]

It's literally quoted, right in the fucking post.

Wrong again.

So, tell me, what does this mean:

And those who want to work for the private sector shouldn't be forced to choose between the two choices you mentioned.

In the context that the two available options are "work for the government" and "stop being a doctor/nurse"?

[Chernoslavia]

Wrong again.

So, tell me, what does this mean:

And those who want to work for the private sector shouldn't be forced to choose between the two choices you mentioned.

In the context that the two available options are "work for the government" and "stop being a doctor/nurse"?

It doesn't mean that people are forced to do so, just that they shouldn't, pretty obvious really. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.