California Offers Healthcare Benefits To Illegal Immigrants

[Ifreann]

Depends on his status.

And if they are not keeping records of it, maybe check hospitals for illegals.

Nah. Fuck that. I support strict immigration enforcement but I see no need for doctors to be gathering information, like citizenship, that is irrelevant to medical treatment. Health care providers should not be put in such a position. This is the same reason I oppose mandatory reporting of gunshot wounds, as well.

Come on, you need everyone informing on everyone else if you're going to have a police state.

[The South Falls]

Nah. Fuck that. I support strict immigration enforcement but I see no need for doctors to be gathering information, like citizenship, that is irrelevant to medical treatment. Health care providers should not be put in such a position. This is the same reason I oppose mandatory reporting of gunshot wounds, as well.

Come on, you need everyone informing on everyone else if you're going to have a police state.

Nah, that's why you get the Stasi or NKVD on the job.

[Scomagia]

Nah. Fuck that. I support strict immigration enforcement but I see no need for doctors to be gathering information, like citizenship, that is irrelevant to medical treatment. Health care providers should not be put in such a position. This is the same reason I oppose mandatory reporting of gunshot wounds, as well.

Come on, you need everyone informing on everyone else if you're going to have a police state.

I prefer my doctors to do medicine stuff. Leave informing to busybodies and junkies.

[Chernoslavia]

Good. Whatever you may think of undocumented immigration in and of itself, while these young people are in your territory they should not be deprived of their human rights, including the right to health care.

Nope, bad. Healthcare is not a right. Especially to those who are here unlawfully.

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Good. Whatever you may think of undocumented immigration in and of itself, while these young people are in your territory they should not be deprived of their human rights, including the right to health care.

Nope, bad. Healthcare is not a right. Especially to those who are here unlawfully.

If health care is not a right, then life is not a right; you need health care to not die.

[Chernoslavia]

Nope, bad. Healthcare is not a right. Especially to those who are here unlawfully.

If health care is not a right, then life is not a right; you need health care to not die.

Wrong. Because nobody has any obligation to treat you especially for free. A right should not trample the rights of others.

[Necroghastia]

If health care is not a right, then life is not a right; you need health care to not die.

Wrong. Because nobody has any obligation to treat you especially for free. A right should not trample the rights of others.

Literally no one in favor of universal healthcare is arguing that medical staff should work for free.

[Page]

If health care is not a right, then life is not a right; you need health care to not die.

Wrong. Because nobody has any obligation to treat you especially for free. A right should not trample the rights of others.

Health care being a right does not mean anyone is forced to treat you.

Some people decide to become doctors. Those who do can work for the public just as librarians and police officers do. Their wages are paid by taxes. Those who don't want to can quit.

No doctor or nurse is being forced to treat anyone. They don't have a gun to their head, they can quit any time.

[ECKU]

I saw this on VICE news. This is great, AlHamdulillah

[Chernoslavia]

Wrong. Because nobody has any obligation to treat you especially for free. A right should not trample the rights of others.

Literally no one in favor of universal healthcare is arguing that medical staff should work for free.

Yes they do actually. I see it all the time, not on NSG though and I suspect that's only to avoid coming off as authoritarian.

[Chernoslavia]

Wrong. Because nobody has any obligation to treat you especially for free. A right should not trample the rights of others.

Health care being a right does not mean anyone is forced to treat you.

Some people decide to become doctors. Those who do can work for the public just as librarians and police officers do. Their wages are paid by taxes. Those who don't want to can quit.

No doctor or nurse is being forced to treat anyone. They don't have a gun to their head, they can quit any time.

They sort of are when people are forced to pay for it.

And those who want to work for the private sector shouldn't be forced to choose between the two choices you mentioned. But nahh, private sector bad because ''muh ebul pharma.''

[Page]

Literally no one in favor of universal healthcare is arguing that medical staff should work for free.

Yes they do actually. I see it all the time, not on NSG though and I suspect that's only to avoid coming off as authoritarian.

I don't believe this strawman for a moment.

[Chernoslavia]

Yes they do actually. I see it all the time, not on NSG though and I suspect that's only to avoid coming off as authoritarian.

I don't believe this strawman for a moment.

I don't care? Also, it's not a strawman.

[Fartsniffage]

I don't believe this strawman for a moment.

I don't care? Also, it's not a strawman.

When and where have you seen this? If it happens all the time you should be able to give an example easily.

[Page]

Health care being a right does not mean anyone is forced to treat you.

Some people decide to become doctors. Those who do can work for the public just as librarians and police officers do. Their wages are paid by taxes. Those who don't want to can quit.

No doctor or nurse is being forced to treat anyone. They don't have a gun to their head, they can quit any time.

They sort of are when people are forced to pay for it.

So are you an ancap or a hypocrite? Either you think it's okay for some things like schools and police to be publicly funded and freely available to the people, in which case you're a hypocrite to say health care as a right is coercion while other things are not (by your logic, judges are oppressed because tax dollars pay their salaries and they can't become private sector judges), or you're an ancap. If you're an ancap, I can't really argue against that other than pointing out that if we had anarcho-capitalism, someone richer than you would hire mercenaries to take your stuff and kill you, and then health care wouldn't be a concern.

[Saiwania]

If health care is not a right, then life is not a right; you need health care to not die.

Or you just need to take better care of yourself. Your own health is your problem and responsibility and not others. If someone makes poorer choices with regards to nutrition and lifestyle, that is their own fault.

[Fartsniffage]

If health care is not a right, then life is not a right; you need health care to not die.

Or you just need to take better care of yourself. Your own health is your problem and responsibility and not others. If someone makes poorer choices with regards to nutrition and lifestyle, that is their own fault.

You can replace all those words with just "Stop being poor".

[Kowani]

If health care is not a right, then life is not a right; you need health care to not die.

Or you just need to take better care of yourself. Your own health is your problem and responsibility and not others. If someone makes poorer choices with regards to nutrition and lifestyle, that is their own fault.

As per usual, your views are fundamentally inaccurate.

[Page]

If health care is not a right, then life is not a right; you need health care to not die.

Or you just need to take better care of yourself. Your own health is your problem and responsibility and not others. If someone makes poorer choices with regards to nutrition and lifestyle, that is their own fault.

100% of people would get cancer if they lived long enough, if nothing else kills you first you will get cancer regardless of your lifestyle choices. And that's just one of many diseases that people get regardless of what they do.

[Saiwania]

You can replace all those words with just "Stop being poor".

Well, barring people going through actual famine, there are poor people who're in better health than some rich people and vice versa. There exist both diseases of affluence and poverty. The finite amount of time people get to be alive, it is what they make of it for the most part.

[Kowani]

You can replace all those words with just "Stop being poor".

Well, barring people going through actual famine, there are poor people who're in better health than some rich people and vice versa.

The statistical minority of poor people are in better health than the rich.

There exist both diseases of affluence and poverty.

Incorrect. There exists diseases which care naught about wealth. But even these are decreasing in number.

The finite amount of time people get to be alive, it is what they make of it for the most part.

It’s easier to make good of ones life if one is not impoverished.

[The Emerald Legion]

Nope, bad. Healthcare is not a right. Especially to those who are here unlawfully.

If health care is not a right, then life is not a right; you need health care to not die.

Nonsense. You're always going to die. Whether you get Healthcare or not. That's not what a 'Right to Life' means. It means people won't deliberately kill you. Not that society is obligated to do everything in it's power to keep you alive.

[Page]

If health care is not a right, then life is not a right; you need health care to not die.

Nonsense. You're always going to die. Whether you get Healthcare or not. That's not what a 'Right to Life' means. It means people won't deliberately kill you. Not that society is obligated to do everything in it's power to keep you alive.

We aren't talking about keeping brain dead people alive on bypass just for the sake of it, we're talking about people not dying years or decades before their time because they couldn't afford treatment they need to live.

[Saiwania]

Incorrect. There exists diseases which care naught about wealth. But even these are decreasing in number.

It simply means that rich people are more likely to get certain diseases if they live a "luxurious" lifestyle that enables them to be more lazy that poorer people aren't as likely to get because poor people are doing more manual labor or being outside all the time. Just as say, a homeless person- is more likely to get certain diseases that richer people aren't as likely to get. A ton of it just comes down to lifestyle and the toll it takes on someone over time, if their choices and habits aren't good for them.

The fact remains that not everyone can be rich, money won't have much value if there isn't inequality of some sort. Everything is going to be relative.

[Kowani]

Incorrect. There exists diseases which care naught about wealth. But even these are decreasing in number.

It simply means that rich people are more likely to get certain diseases if they live a "luxurious" lifestyle that enables them to be more lazy that poorer people aren't as likely to get because poor people are doing more manual labor or being outside all the time. Just as say, a homeless person- is more likely to get certain diseases that richer people aren't as likely to get. A ton of it just comes down to lifestyle and the toll it takes on someone over time, if their choices and habits aren't good for them.

Lifestyle is definitely important, but wealth opens access to resources that can counteract quite a few of the problems. It’s why the highest life expectancies, even among stable countries, are all in places that offer those resources to everyone.

The fact remains that not everyone can be rich, money won't have much value if there isn't inequality of some sort. Everything is going to be relative.

What brought this on? And, a point. That’s not what money is for.