California Offers Healthcare Benefits To Illegal Immigrants

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Actually a large number of the hospitals are owned by the federal or local government.
And other places like Germany also rely largely on the private sector.

Not in remotely the same way. Stop being disingenuous.

Yes overuse of emergency rooms instead of preventive care is a problem, but could just as equally be a problem if the government owned more emergency rooms than it already does (which is a large number).

No, because it's literally compulsory, because the government will only pick up the bill for emergency treatment. This is a large part of the reason that shifting to a universal model would save the US government money.

I answered your question. Also the article discusses some of the details.

No you didn't.

When your population is so spread out, and transport so different, you need a different healthcare system then you do in New York City.

Different in what way? Name a fucking difference. This is not fucking difficult, unless you're just fucking lying.

A few large hospitals can be accessed by the whole NYC population.

But lots of small clinics for non-specialist stuff is better, regardless of population density.

Largest hospitals will not work in rural Alaska. You need mobile doctors and a float plane based system to transport them and patients instead of large hospitals with conventional ambulances.

So no significant difference, got it.

I'm not seing how that is 'no significant difference.'
A system based on large hospitals will not work in rural Alaska, which is both most of Alaska and fucking huge, because of the same reason that the closures of the small local hospitals in the UK were bad for people who lived in those areas. Longer travel times means slower access to medical treatment means a higher chance that people won't survive, it's called fucking common sense.
The reason a few large hospitals work in NYC is that the population is considerably more compacted into a small area and transport links are a lot better. There are parts of Alaska you can't drive to from other parts of Alaska, you don't exactly have the same problem in a big, densely-populated city like NYC.

[Salandriagado]

Not in remotely the same way. Stop being disingenuous.



No, because it's literally compulsory, because the government will only pick up the bill for emergency treatment. This is a large part of the reason that shifting to a universal model would save the US government money.



No you didn't.



Different in what way? Name a fucking difference. This is not fucking difficult, unless you're just fucking lying.



But lots of small clinics for non-specialist stuff is better, regardless of population density.



So no significant difference, got it.

I'm not seing how that is 'no significant difference.'
A system based on large hospitals will not work in rural Alaska, which is both most of Alaska and fucking huge, because of the same reason that the closures of the small local hospitals in the UK were bad for people who lived in those areas.

It doesn't work anywhere else, either. Something that's the same in two different situations is not a difference between those situations.

Longer travel times means slower access to medical treatment means a higher chance that people won't survive, it's called fucking common sense.

And the resulting significant difference in provision that mean that this can't happen in a universal system is what, exactly?

The reason a few large hospitals work in NYC is that the population is considerably more compacted into a small area and transport links are a lot better.

It doesn't work in NYC. Notice that healthcare in NYC is no less shit than healthcare anywhere else in the US.

There are parts of Alaska you can't drive to from other parts of Alaska, you don't exactly have the same problem in a big, densely-populated city like NYC.

Again, having a shit option available to you does not change anything.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

I'm not seing how that is 'no significant difference.'
A system based on large hospitals will not work in rural Alaska, which is both most of Alaska and fucking huge, because of the same reason that the closures of the small local hospitals in the UK were bad for people who lived in those areas.

It doesn't work anywhere else, either. Something that's the same in two different situations is not a difference between those situations.

Longer travel times means slower access to medical treatment means a higher chance that people won't survive, it's called fucking common sense.

And the resulting significant difference in provision that mean that this can't happen in a universal system is what, exactly?

The reason a few large hospitals work in NYC is that the population is considerably more compacted into a small area and transport links are a lot better.

It doesn't work in NYC. Notice that healthcare in NYC is no less shit than healthcare anywhere else in the US.

There are parts of Alaska you can't drive to from other parts of Alaska, you don't exactly have the same problem in a big, densely-populated city like NYC.

Again, having a shit option available to you does not change anything.

Source that healthcare in nyc is average for the US? I understood it to be quite a lot better.

[Novus America]

Actually a large number of the hospitals are owned by the federal or local government.
And other places like Germany also rely largely on the private sector.

Not in remotely the same way. Stop being disingenuous.

Yes overuse of emergency rooms instead of preventive care is a problem, but could just as equally be a problem if the government owned more emergency rooms than it already does (which is a large number).

No, because it's literally compulsory, because the government will only pick up the bill for emergency treatment. This is a large part of the reason that shifting to a universal model would save the US government money.

I answered your question. Also the article discusses some of the details.

No you didn't.

When your population is so spread out, and transport so different, you need a different healthcare system then you do in New York City.

Different in what way? Name a fucking difference. This is not fucking difficult, unless you're just fucking lying.

A few large hospitals can be accessed by the whole NYC population.

But lots of small clinics for non-specialist stuff is better, regardless of population density.

Largest hospitals will not work in rural Alaska. You need mobile doctors and a float plane based system to transport them and patients instead of large hospitals with conventional ambulances.

So no significant difference, got it.

Actually what Germany and the US has is not so different. The Germans do it significantly better, but it has many similarities.
And the German government does not foot the whole medical bill for everyone.

Also you appear to know little of healthcare in general and of the US in particular.
Healthcare in the US needs improvement but we are not THAT bad.
The US is ranked lower than Western Europe yes.
But higher than many Eastern European EU states.
https://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf

Nor is it equally bad everywhere.

Also the US government(s) pay the bills for a huge amount of non emergency treatment.
As you yourself admitted you do not know about Medicaid.

And no, small clinics of non specialists are not ideal in all circumstances.
And even small clinics will not work well in rural Alaska. You cannot have them in each homestead with only a handful of people.
Again you need a mobile system based on floatplane transport. Float plane based healthcare would be silly in NYC however.

And also you apparently never read my article.

I posted a source and you just ignored it. While you have provided nothing to show that all healthcare needs are exactly the same everywhere in the US (when they are not).

Again this does not preclude universal healthcare coverage in the US. It simply means a centralized top down system from DC is not the way to go.
Federalized and decentralized universal healthcare systems can and do exist.

[Salandriagado]

Not in remotely the same way. Stop being disingenuous.



No, because it's literally compulsory, because the government will only pick up the bill for emergency treatment. This is a large part of the reason that shifting to a universal model would save the US government money.



No you didn't.



Different in what way? Name a fucking difference. This is not fucking difficult, unless you're just fucking lying.



But lots of small clinics for non-specialist stuff is better, regardless of population density.



So no significant difference, got it.

Actually what Germany and the US has is not so different. The Germans do it significantly better, but it has many similarities.
And the German government does not foot the whole medical bill for everyone.

It does, however, foot the majority of it. And control prices.

Also you appear to know little of healthcare in general and of the US in particular.

You are wrong.

Healthcare in the US needs improvement but we are not THAT bad.
The US is ranked lower than Western Europe yes.
But higher than many Eastern European EU states.
https://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf

When the best that you can say about your healthcare is that it's less shit than countries with less than a quarter of your GDP per capita, it's fucking shit.

Nor is it equally bad everywhere.

It's not good anywhere, though.

Also the US government(s) pay the bills for a huge amount of non emergency treatment.
As you yourself admitted you do not know about Medicaid.

That isn't what I admitted at all. And that signularly fails to do the job, as noticed by all of the people being forced into bankruptcy.

And no, small clinics of non specialists are not ideal in all circumstances.
And even small clinics will not work well in rural Alaska. You cannot have them in each homestead with only a handful of people.

Again you need a mobile system based on floatplane transport. Float plane based healthcare would be silly in NYC however.

So why does this mean that they can't be part of the same universal healthcare service?

And also you apparently never read my article.

Wrong again.

I posted a source and you just ignored it. While you have provided nothing to show that all healthcare needs are exactly the same everywhere in the US (when they are not).

Because, again, I never claimed anything of the fucking sort. Stop fucking lying about what I said.

It simply means a centralized top down system from DC is not the way to go.

You continue to provide absolutely nothing to support this claim.

[Novus America]

Actually what Germany and the US has is not so different. The Germans do it significantly better, but it has many similarities.
And the German government does not foot the whole medical bill for everyone.

It does, however, foot the majority of it. And control prices.

Also you appear to know little of healthcare in general and of the US in particular.

You are wrong.

Healthcare in the US needs improvement but we are not THAT bad.
The US is ranked lower than Western Europe yes.
But higher than many Eastern European EU states.
https://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf

When the best that you can say about your healthcare is that it's less shit than countries with less than a quarter of your GDP per capita, it's fucking shit.

Nor is it equally bad everywhere.

It's not good anywhere, though.

Also the US government(s) pay the bills for a huge amount of non emergency treatment.
As you yourself admitted you do not know about Medicaid.

That isn't what I admitted at all. And that signularly fails to do the job, as noticed by all of the people being forced into bankruptcy.

And no, small clinics of non specialists are not ideal in all circumstances.
And even small clinics will not work well in rural Alaska. You cannot have them in each homestead with only a handful of people.

Again you need a mobile system based on floatplane transport. Float plane based healthcare would be silly in NYC however.

So why does this mean that they can't be part of the same universal healthcare service?

And also you apparently never read my article.

Wrong again.

I posted a source and you just ignored it. While you have provided nothing to show that all healthcare needs are exactly the same everywhere in the US (when they are not).

Because, again, I never claimed anything of the fucking sort. Stop fucking lying about what I said.

It simply means a centralized top down system from DC is not the way to go.

You continue to provide absolutely nothing to support this claim.

See there is a middle ground between US healthcare is great and US healthcare is total shit.
It is not the best, and not the worst. Yes it definitely needs improvement.
Yes some people do not get enough protection. Yes some people are not covered.
This is true and needs to change, but regardless the US government is still paying healthcare for a massive number of people. Pays nearly half of healthcare costs. Most people are eligible for some healthcare. But yes there is a portion who are not eligible, or who are eligible and do not know they are.
The problem is not the government is doing nothing. It is that it does always spend the money well.

And I absolutely supported my claim. My article stated that the State of Alaska has unique healthcare issues, that federal law did not account for these, requiring the state government to make state laws and pay state funds to deal with it.

A single centralized service run from Washington DC will almost certainly fail to account for unique needs, would not have the flexibility to raise and provide additional funds to certain specific concerns of local governments and thus would be a terrible idea.

[Loben The 2nd]

Annnnd they are paying for this how?

[Fartsniffage]

Annnnd they are paying for this how?

They're putting a 100% tax on all firearms and ammunition sold in the state of California to cover the costs.

[Loben The 2nd]

Annnnd they are paying for this how?

They're putting a 100% tax on all firearms and ammunition sold in the state of California to cover the costs.

Ok no meme is that correct?

[Ifreann]

Annnnd they are paying for this how?

Yard sale.

[Aragonian Catalonia]

Annnnd they are paying for this how?

They're putting a 100% tax on all firearms and ammunition sold in the state of California to cover the costs.

Firearms is a big business and i think that the state should take something. It s fair

[Fartsniffage]

They're putting a 100% tax on all firearms and ammunition sold in the state of California to cover the costs.

Ok no meme is that correct?

No. I was lying.

[Ifreann]

Ok no meme is that correct?

No. I was lying.

[Scomagia]

They're putting a 100% tax on all firearms and ammunition sold in the state of California to cover the costs.

Firearms is a big business and i think that the state should take something. It s fair

Firearms are already taxed to pay for conservation. Maybe they should tax those abominable, sugar filled excuses for coffee that Californians guzzle down and pay for healthcare with that.

[Telconi]

They're putting a 100% tax on all firearms and ammunition sold in the state of California to cover the costs.

Firearms is a big business and i think that the state should take something. It s fair

Punitively taxing people who excersize human rights is bad.

[Paddy O Fernature]

Firearms is a big business and i think that the state should take something. It s fair

Punitively taxing people who excersize human rights is bad.

Except when it comes to the 2A apparently.

[Arlenton]

ICE should find the records of medical stuff then deport.

[Ifreann]

ICE should find the records of medical stuff then deport.

How would records of a program that won't be checking for citizenship status help ICE deport people?

Suppose ICE does have the records. Miguel Sanchez broke a finger. Deport: Y/N?

[Arlenton]

ICE should find the records of medical stuff then deport.

How would records of a program that won't be checking for citizenship status help ICE deport people?

Suppose ICE does have the records. Miguel Sanchez broke a finger. Deport: Y/N?

Depends on his status.

And if they are not keeping records of it, maybe check hospitals for illegals.

[Zandovia]

Let them get better lives and screw over the citizens of America.

[Ifreann]

How would records of a program that won't be checking for citizenship status help ICE deport people?

Suppose ICE does have the records. Miguel Sanchez broke a finger. Deport: Y/N?

Depends on his status.

If you can't decide based on that then having medical records won't be any use to ICE, will they?

And if they are not keeping records of it, maybe check hospitals for illegals.

Gonna need to find one crazy drunk judge to get a warrant for every person in every hospital in California.

[Necroghastia]

How would records of a program that won't be checking for citizenship status help ICE deport people?

Suppose ICE does have the records. Miguel Sanchez broke a finger. Deport: Y/N?

Depends on his status.

And if they are not keeping records of it, maybe check hospitals for illegals.

What's an illegal? I was under the impression that the word was an adjective, not a noun.

[Ifreann]

Depends on his status.

And if they are not keeping records of it, maybe check hospitals for illegals.

What's an illegal? I was under the impression that the word was an adjective, not a noun.

Lacking a national language, America has a loose grasp on grammar.

[Page]

How would records of a program that won't be checking for citizenship status help ICE deport people?

Suppose ICE does have the records. Miguel Sanchez broke a finger. Deport: Y/N?

Depends on his status.

And if they are not keeping records of it, maybe check hospitals for illegals.

I'm sure there won't be any unintended consequences, like people with serious ailments not seeking medical attention because they don't want to be dragged out of a hospital bed and locked up in a detention center so instead they stay home and die.

Although to be fair, if such a policy were implemented and undocumented immigrants died because they were scared to go to the hospital, there are many bigots who would see that as a win-win situation.

[Scomagia]

How would records of a program that won't be checking for citizenship status help ICE deport people?

Suppose ICE does have the records. Miguel Sanchez broke a finger. Deport: Y/N?

Depends on his status.

And if they are not keeping records of it, maybe check hospitals for illegals.

Nah. Fuck that. I support strict immigration enforcement but I see no need for doctors to be gathering information, like citizenship, that is irrelevant to medical treatment. Health care providers should not be put in such a position. This is the same reason I oppose mandatory reporting of gunshot wounds, as well.