California Offers Healthcare Benefits To Illegal Immigrants

[Trollgaard]

1. And how, pray tell, is tribalism stupid?

2. It worked pretty damn well for humanity so far.

1. It divides a social species between arbitrary lines and definitions, leading to members of said species to demonize others of a tribe, leading to fights over resources, ideas, money, etc... in a never ending struggle to make one's tribe the most successful (Even if that means harming members of one's own tribe), even though the species would be much better off working together to solve commonly shared issues.
2. In the 20th century alone we had: WWI, WWII, The Congo Wars, The Yugoslav Wars, Chinas Communist Revolution, Russia' Communist Revolution, The Korean War, The Vietnam War, Contra Campaigns, The Cuban Missile Crisis, India and Pakistan, Israeli-Arab Wars, The Holocaust, Armenian Genocide, etc...

All of those could've been avoided if human as a whole got its head out of its ass and collectively work together to solve the issues they faced instead of fighting and murdering well over 100,000,000 of their fellow humans.

The 20th century was just a continuation, with some exceptions, to how things have always operated. Groups rise to power, and fade from power. Nations and people fight for dominance and their time in the sun. It is the way of things. People have never been one big happy family.
Tribes fought each other, kingdoms fought each other, and nations fight each other.

[New haven america]

1. A. That's a false equivalency, as you as an individual have a right to privacy on the property you own. You do not, however, own the country, and B. Yes, countries don't want their foreign neighbors in their country because human's stupidity and tribalistic behavior, I've been over this.
3. You've never heard of indentured servitude? You know, where you pay for something through labor to another?
4. And you don't see why this is an issue?

1.) Incorrect. It's appropriate equivalency. I don't own my home either, I have room-mates. We agree 'Don't let the neighbor in.' Just like the nation. We voted, and guess who got elected! The guy who wanted to build a huge fuckoff wall on the border.

3.) I have, but that's not what's happening now is it?

4.) No? why would I? You're the one with the weird hangups about it. Not me.

1. Good for you on democratically agreeing to something. And again, because humans are dumb (Referring to the wall). Why do you think using an argument or concept that I've already stated is stupid is going to work?
3. That's basically what legal immigration based on skilled labor is. The person pays the state in labor and capital, and then the state allows them to stay after a certain period of time has passed.
3. Maybe because it perpetuates a antagonistic mindset against those that your supposed to be helping and get help in advancing. (It can be anything, socioeconomics, QoL, emotional fulfillment, etc...)

[Bear Stearns]

As far back as the 1790's we passed a law saying only good white Europeans could be citizens (and the time requirements actually got amended to be even longer as time went on) and a few decades later the Supreme Court explicitly said blacks couldn't be citizens lol. The US being a totally accepting and open place is a very recent thing.

This is true. It was not until 1952 we removed racial discrimination from immigration laws.

Ellis Island was literally a detention center for immigrants to be processed before a judge decided whether or not they could come into the country or had to be deported.

I believe more people were turned away at Ellis Island than actually let in over the course of its history.

[New haven america]

1. It divides a social species between arbitrary lines and definitions, leading to members of said species to demonize others of a tribe, leading to fights over resources, ideas, money, etc... in a never ending struggle to make one's tribe the most successful (Even if that means harming members of one's own tribe), even though the species would be much better off working together to solve commonly shared issues.
2. In the 20th century alone we had: WWI, WWII, The Congo Wars, The Yugoslav Wars, Chinas Communist Revolution, Russia' Communist Revolution, The Korean War, The Vietnam War, Contra Campaigns, The Cuban Missile Crisis, India and Pakistan, Israeli-Arab Wars, The Holocaust, Armenian Genocide, etc...

All of those could've been avoided if human as a whole got its head out of its ass and collectively work together to solve the issues they faced instead of fighting and murdering well over 100,000,000 of their fellow humans.

The 20th century was just a continuation, with some exceptions, to how things have always operated. Groups rise to power, and fade from power. Nations and people fight for dominance and their time in the sun. It is the way of things. People have never been one big happy family.
Tribes fought each other, kingdoms fought each other, and nations fight each other.

… And that's my problem with this line of thinking. Tribalism isn't good, exclusivity isn't good, and if it is allowed to continue, it leads to nothing but death and crimes against humanity.

I feel like I'm the only sober person trapped in a car full of drunk people, including the driver, and we're about to be in a head on collision, but I'm not capable of actually doing anything and everyone else doesn't see an issue with what's about to happen.

[The Emerald Legion]

1.) Incorrect. It's appropriate equivalency. I don't own my home either, I have room-mates. We agree 'Don't let the neighbor in.' Just like the nation. We voted, and guess who got elected! The guy who wanted to build a huge fuckoff wall on the border.

3.) I have, but that's not what's happening now is it?

4.) No? why would I? You're the one with the weird hangups about it. Not me.

1. Good for you on democratically agreeing to something. And again, because humans are dumb (Referring to the wall). Why do you think using an argument or concept that I've already stated is stupid is going to work?
3. That's basically what legal immigration based on skilled labor is. The person pays the state in labor and capital, and then the state allows them to stay after a certain period of time has passed.
3. Maybe because it perpetuates a antagonistic mindset against those that your supposed to be helping and get in advancing. (It can be anything, socioeconomics, QoL, emotional fulfillment, etc...)

1.) Because, as has been explained to you repeatedly, it's not stupid, you just don't understand reality.

2.) Not particularly. The person immigrates and is granted immigration because they are a person of good standing or quality. I know plenty of people who immigrate here legally and do fuck all of use to society despite having skills that got them in.

3.) I'm not supposed to be helping them. I owe them nothing and they owe me nothing. There are no bonds of any sort between us.

[New haven america]

1. You don't have to say something to imply something
2. I'm aware. Now let me ask you: Why do you lot seem so dead set on making life more difficult and unfair for people?
3. Not right now, unfortunately.
4. Actually, the US and most other nations had open boarders for most of their history. The US only really started cracking down on who could come in or not during the 1920's, when the general population got scared of all the new European immigrants. (And before you fucking say it: China was the exception, not the rule. Got it?)

1. You interpret things strangely, then.
2. I'm not. I don't agree with open borders. If they want to move here, great! Stand in line.
3. lmao
4. In the past massive migrations were done at the point of the sword. People moved to the new world yes, but that's when it was a frontier and lots of building was necessary. We don't need massive migration anymore.

1. You not good at hiding what you actually mean.
2. Yes you are. You're ok with the continued immigration restrictions and don't want to make life easier for your fellow humans.
3. This is how I've felt towards most of the other's replies on this topic.
4. We don't need massive migration, but we shouldn't be trying to end all migration as we know it either.

[New haven america]

1. Good for you on democratically agreeing to something. And again, because humans are dumb (Referring to the wall). Why do you think using an argument or concept that I've already stated is stupid is going to work?
3. That's basically what legal immigration based on skilled labor is. The person pays the state in labor and capital, and then the state allows them to stay after a certain period of time has passed.
3. Maybe because it perpetuates a antagonistic mindset against those that your supposed to be helping and get in advancing. (It can be anything, socioeconomics, QoL, emotional fulfillment, etc...)

1.) Because, as has been explained to you repeatedly, it's not stupid, you just don't understand reality.

2.) Not particularly. The person immigrates and is granted immigration because they are a person of good standing or quality. I know plenty of people who immigrate here legally and do fuck all of use to society despite having skills that got them in.

3.) I'm not supposed to be helping them. I owe them nothing and they owe me nothing. There are no bonds of any sort between us.

1. Just because it exists in reality doesn't make it any less stupid.
2. Because they either played their part in the system of indentured servitude or had enough money to pay their way in.
3. Yes you are and yes they are. A country's population is never going to be collectively well off if the population keeps fighting itself.

[Washington Resistance Army]

3. Yes you are and yes they are. A country's population is never going to be collectively well off if the population keeps fighting itself.

Exactly why we need to do away with democracy tbh. People are too stupid for it to work without an external enemy and turn on each other.

[Nakena]

3. Yes you are and yes they are. A country's population is never going to be collectively well off if the population keeps fighting itself.

Exactly why we need to do away with democracy tbh. People are too stupid for it to work without an external enemy and turn on each other.

It worked for quite a while but I believe the state we are in now is the result of the last 25 years really and most of its developments during the Reagan era. Trump is the fitting and final outcome of it.

[Telconi]

3. Yes you are and yes they are. A country's population is never going to be collectively well off if the population keeps fighting itself.

Exactly why we need to do away with democracy tbh. People are too stupid for it to work without an external enemy and turn on each other.

Galaxy brain: do away with countries alltogether.

[Trollgaard]

1. You interpret things strangely, then.
2. I'm not. I don't agree with open borders. If they want to move here, great! Stand in line.
3. lmao
4. In the past massive migrations were done at the point of the sword. People moved to the new world yes, but that's when it was a frontier and lots of building was necessary. We don't need massive migration anymore.

1. You not good at hiding what you actually mean.
2. Yes you are. You're ok with the continued immigration restrictions and don't want to make life easier for your fellow humans.
3. This is how I've felt towards most of the other's replies on this topic.
4. We don't need massive migration, but we shouldn't be trying to end all migration as we know it either.

1. wot
2. ...whatever? We aren't obligated to let numberless amounts of people into our country. Sorry you don't agree. If you think that makes people's lives harder, then..whatever? I think it would make my fellow American's lives harder if we had open borders.
3. lololololololol
4. I'd be fine with almost closed borders, TBH. What have now is ok. Maybe streamline it a bit? If someone is a great doctor and want to come, cool. Let em come in easier. Random dude with no particular skillset? Eh...not so much.

You see the world as you want it, and haven't realized to work with how it actually is.

[New haven america]

1. You not good at hiding what you actually mean.
2. Yes you are. You're ok with the continued immigration restrictions and don't want to make life easier for your fellow humans.
3. This is how I've felt towards most of the other's replies on this topic.
4. We don't need massive migration, but we shouldn't be trying to end all migration as we know it either.

1. wot
2. ...whatever? We aren't obligated to let numberless amounts of people into our country. Sorry you don't agree. If you think that makes people's lives harder, then..whatever? I think it would make my fellow American's lives harder if we had open borders.
3. lololololololol
4. I'd be fine with almost closed borders, TBH. What have now is ok. Maybe streamline it a bit? If someone is a great doctor and want to come, cool. Let em come in easier. Random dude with no particular skillset? Eh...not so much.

5.You see the world as you want it, and haven't realized to work with how it actually is.

1. You not good at hiding your actual beliefs. Especially since your arguments have been used in the past to justify a fear of the unknown or different.
2. Yes, American's would have it so rough, being able to go anywhere in the world they wanted to without or with limited restrictions. Truly that is a fate worse than death.
3. Again, an accurate summation of how I feel about your lot's arguments.
4. So you're with further entrapping that American population in a state that has no problem chipping away at said populations humans rights? I'll pretend to be surprised.

5. Oh boy, armchair psych hour! You fail to understand that things don't have to be the way they currently are, and instead fall back on tradition, powerlessness, and "It's just how it is" to make up for your inability to understand things that are different than what you already know. It's quite sad, actually.

[Trollgaard]

I think that this point we can agree to disagree. We are getting no where.

I will say this:

To get to the point where I think you want things to be would take massive amounts of change that are not going to happen quickly or easily without dire need, if they happen at all.

[New haven america]

1. I think that this point we can agree to disagree. We are getting no where.

I will say this:

2. To get to the point where I think you want things to be would take massive amounts of change that are not going to happen quickly or easily without dire need, if they happen at all.

1. This is a debate and discussion forum, that comes with the territory.
2. You act as if I'm not aware of that it would take a lot of work and effort. But as I said before, if humanity put its collective mind, skills, and ability to it, it can happen (It's already happened in places like Europe). Humanity just needs to pull its collective head out of it ass first.

Also, why would something dire need to happen? Why couldn't humans just decide "Oh hey, you know that thing we've been doing for thousands of years where we keep killing, and killing, and killing, and killing each other over and over again endlessly and mainly for people who don't give a shit about us? Yeah, well, why don't we try not doing that?"

[Bear Stearns]

1. I think that this point we can agree to disagree. We are getting no where.

I will say this:

2. To get to the point where I think you want things to be would take massive amounts of change that are not going to happen quickly or easily without dire need, if they happen at all.

1. This is a debate and discussion forum, that's comes with the territory.
2. You act as if I'm not aware of that it would take a lot of work or effort. But as I said before, if humanity put its collective mind, skills, and ability to it, it can happen (It's already happened in places like Europe). Humanity just needs to pull its collective head out of it ass first.

Europe is a good example of humanity, but it is not all of it.

[Kowani]

Exactly why we need to do away with democracy tbh. People are too stupid for it to work without an external enemy and turn on each other.

Galaxy brain: do away with countries alltogether.

This but unironically.

[Shofercia]

SACRAMENTO, Calif. — California has become the first state to offer taxpayer-funded health benefits to young adults living in the country illegally.

Democratic Gov. Gavin Newsom signed a bill into law Tuesday that makes low-income adults 25 and younger eligible for the state's Medicaid program regardless of their immigration status. State officials expect the plan to cover about 90,000 people and cost taxpayers $98 million. California already covers children 18 and younger regardless of immigration status.

The law will not give health insurance benefits to everyone 25 and younger, but only those whose income is low enough to qualify.

Newsom and Democratic legislative leaders say they plan to further expand coverage to more adults in the years to come. Republican President Donald Trump has called the move "crazy." Advocates of the measure say it's a way to improve the health of immigrants in the state by providing them with access to the medical care they need.

Many immigrants who are in the country illegally are already enrolled for some government-funded programs, but they only cover emergencies and pregnancies.

Democrats had pushed to expand the coverage to even more adults, but Newsom rejected the proposals, saying it would cost about $3.4 billion to provide coverage to all California adults living in the country illegally. But he has vowed to keep expanding coverage in future years.

Source: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ca ... y-n1028086

Basically in summary California is offering healthcare benefits to illegal immigrants 25 or younger whose income is low.

In my opinion I think California is taking a step in the right direction to help improve young immigrant's lives when they enter the United States and get the care they need to support themselves and their families until they can get legal status and not have worry about their financial problems.

What do you say NSG? Did California make the right choice on giving illegal immigrants healthcare benefits or no?

Whatever happened to Democrats whining about how California's broke? Why's California offering illegal immigrants free healthcare, while Californian Veterans are dying on skid row - where's their healthcare? Who were the absolute nutjobs seeking to give everyone healthcare, and how much campaign contributions did they take from the healthcare industry?

State officials claim that it'll cost $98 million. Are they lying sacks of shit or just plain ignorant? The cost is going to be much higher. Where did they get the 90,000 number from? Let's take a look at an actual source that understands numbers, so most definitely not the "super-intelligent" in Sacramento: https://www.ppic.org/publication/undocu ... alifornia/

Undocumented (also known as illegal or unauthorized) immigrants are not directly identified in any representative national or state surveys. But the best estimates suggest that in 2014, the year of the most recent data available, California was home to between 2.35 and 2.6 million undocumented immigrants.

Let's be charitable and say that's 2.4 million. Let's be super charitable, and say that only about half of that number falls under the age of 25. Let's be even more charitable and pretend that only have of those are low income. That's 600,000. Who the fuck is running the numbers? This is what Republicans in other states should campaign on, not healthcare, but the sheer fucking economic ignorance of Sacramento. Were they high when they ran the numbers? At least have the fucking balls to tell the people the real costs of your programs... Not even fucking kidding, they want to hide the costs: https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/06/23/ ... om-voters/

The deceit of the school bond lobby and its allies in the California Legislature is despicable. They keep trying to block a 2017 law requiring local governments to tell voters on the ballot how much proposed bond measures would cost taxpayers. They tried unsuccessfully in 2018 to reverse it. And now, state Sens. Scott Wiener, D-San Francisco, and Jim Beall, D-San Jose, along with Assemblyman Mark Stone, D-Scotts Valley, are trying again.

Columnist Dan Walters last week uncovered the latest sleight of hand. In what is known in Sacramento parlance as “gut and amend,” they have taken an unrelated bill late in the legislative session, stripped it and inserted new language. SB 268 would now reverse the 2017 law. They don’t want voters to know that when they approve local bonds for cities, schools or other local government agencies they’re also opting to raise taxes. The bill is a cynical ploy intended to increase the chances of passage by keeping voters in the dark. If you care about transparency, if you believe in election integrity, call your legislators and voice your objection to this blatant attempt to game the system.

Again, this is what Republicans need to run on - the fiscal ignorance and the deceit to cover said ignorance. Bernie Sanders has no issues telling the public the cost of his policies; irrespective of what you think about healthcare, we should all be living in the real World, with real costs, rather than being lied to again, and again, and again.

Approximately 90,000... sure, and while we're at it, are they going to put the Brooklyn Bridge up for sale? How'd lying work out for you in 2016, Democrats? So yes, Republicans should use this bill, not because of healthcare, but because the Democrats are once again lying about the costs of their programs, lies that are blatantly obvious to most of us who still posses common sense, and even a few that don't.

[Kowani]

SACRAMENTO, Calif. — California has become the first state to offer taxpayer-funded health benefits to young adults living in the country illegally.

Democratic Gov. Gavin Newsom signed a bill into law Tuesday that makes low-income adults 25 and younger eligible for the state's Medicaid program regardless of their immigration status. State officials expect the plan to cover about 90,000 people and cost taxpayers $98 million. California already covers children 18 and younger regardless of immigration status.

The law will not give health insurance benefits to everyone 25 and younger, but only those whose income is low enough to qualify.

Newsom and Democratic legislative leaders say they plan to further expand coverage to more adults in the years to come. Republican President Donald Trump has called the move "crazy." Advocates of the measure say it's a way to improve the health of immigrants in the state by providing them with access to the medical care they need.

Many immigrants who are in the country illegally are already enrolled for some government-funded programs, but they only cover emergencies and pregnancies.

Democrats had pushed to expand the coverage to even more adults, but Newsom rejected the proposals, saying it would cost about $3.4 billion to provide coverage to all California adults living in the country illegally. But he has vowed to keep expanding coverage in future years.

Source: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ca ... y-n1028086

Basically in summary California is offering healthcare benefits to illegal immigrants 25 or younger whose income is low.

In my opinion I think California is taking a step in the right direction to help improve young immigrant's lives when they enter the United States and get the care they need to support themselves and their families until they can get legal status and not have worry about their financial problems.

What do you say NSG? Did California make the right choice on giving illegal immigrants healthcare benefits or no?

Whatever happened to Democrats whining about how California's broke? Why's California offering illegal immigrants free healthcare, while Californian Veterans are dying on skid row - where's their healthcare?

Veteran’s healthcare is a federal thing, not a state one. But nevertheless, the VA doesn’t rate that bad. And California already has a program for poor people who can’t afford healthcare.

[Shofercia]

They don't have a human right to health care.

I happen to disagree.

And it's also very sensible public health policy. More people with access to health care means fewer people who could be unwittingly spreading undiagnosed, contagious diseases, for one.

Yeah, about that: https://www.latimes.com/local/californi ... story.html

Los Angeles officials this month called for an investigation into a vermin infestation at City Hall, after at least one city employee was diagnosed with typhus, a disease spread by rodents. The rat problem has focused attention on typhus over the last several weeks. But cases of the disease have actually been increasing in California for more than a decade. Thirteen people in the state were diagnosed with typhus in 2008, compared with 167 last year.

Maybe treat the homeless before giving away healthcare to all?

Exactly why we need to do away with democracy tbh. People are too stupid for it to work without an external enemy and turn on each other.

Galaxy brain: do away with countries alltogether.

And be ruled by corporations! A most appropriate thing to discuss on a Max Barry forum

[Kanadorika]

"Almost every category"

What categories are those?

Education, economics in general, technology, public transportation, life expectancy…

idk man we don't have a "human shit in the streets" problem

Well, I did say almost.

Public transporation? The only metro here that has halfway decent public transit is San Francisco. Los Angeles is a joke

[Shofercia]

Whatever happened to Democrats whining about how California's broke? Why's California offering illegal immigrants free healthcare, while Californian Veterans are dying on skid row - where's their healthcare?

Veteran’s healthcare is a federal thing, not a state one. But nevertheless, the VA doesn’t rate that bad. And California already has a program for poor people who can’t afford healthcare.

https://www.legion.org/homelessveterans ... s-veterans

The Department of Veterans Affairs estimates that more than 6,000 homeless veterans can be found in the Los Angeles area. That's why The American Legion took to the streets on the night of March 25. National, state and local Legion officials and volunteers went to LA's Skid Row to seek out homeless veterans, hear their concerns and offer support... "Sometimes you have to take the solution to the veteran,” Jones explained. “If they can’t get to the help, we’ll bring it to them. We want to let veterans know that The American Legion is here, and we care.”

...Many of the homeless identified as veterans said they tried to get benefits but were told they were not eligible, often because of less than honorable discharges. The American Legion has staff and experts who work on discharge upgrades and other issues that may prevent veterans from receiving help. “I’ll be fair -- it’s a lot of work and a tedious process,” Celli said. “But it’s worth it for veterans to be able to get the benefits they’ve earned... You’re going to see a lot of young veterans out here,” Gonzales explained as the group proceeded into one of the nation's most concentrated populations of homeless veterans. “One DUI and they are out with an other than honorable discharge, or an OTH. And the ones getting the OTH are the lower ranking service members who don’t have resources or capabilities when they get out.”

Yes, according to a press release from the VA, they're not that bad. And according to a press release from President Trump, he's the greatest president ever. According to the Brooklyn Press, a bridge is for sale. And quite a few Californians remain uninsured. There's also the pension crisis, and the student debt crisis that's going to hit us in the next recession. Might want to prepare for that, rather than spending money like a drunken sailor; something about Gore's "locked box" comes to mind.

[Crockerland]

Maybe treat the homeless before giving away healthcare to all?

I'm pretty sure it's already illegal for any hospital emergency room to turn away homeless people due to inability to pay.

[Kanadorika]

Maybe treat the homeless before giving away healthcare to all?

I'm pretty sure it's already illegal for any hospital emergency room to turn away homeless people due to inability to pay.

It is, and as an EMT, our services often get abused by the lonely homeless and elderly who don't even have anything wrong with them.

[Kowani]

Education, economics in general, technology, public transportation, life expectancy…


Well, I did say almost.

Public transporation? The only metro here that has halfway decent public transit is San Francisco. Los Angeles is a joke

I’m going to ignore all the rail transport for a minute, and point out that California does have a halfway decent bus system.

[Kanadorika]

Public transporation? The only metro here that has halfway decent public transit is San Francisco. Los Angeles is a joke

I’m going to ignore all the rail transport for a minute, and point out that California does have a halfway decent bus system.

Buses can only go so far when the urban freeways are jammed up with the worst traffic in the world. Rail here is not too bad, but if your destination is too far from a commuter rail station you either walk, take the bus (and sit in traffic), or ride share. There is the metro light rail which is getting expanded, but thats the very beginning when it comes to building up public transit here in LA.