California Offers Healthcare Benefits To Illegal Immigrants

[Bear Stearns]

How do you that then without having a world government? We as a species have collectively decided that humans are easier to manage and improve the condition of if they are separated into disparate categories that have more in common within than without.

And we have decided wrong.

I present the thousands of wars and conflicts as well as those who died in said wars and conflicts as evidence to that fact.

So do you support world conquest by an authoritarian state to correct this? Because I can't see any other way in which your system could even remotely work.

[The Emerald Legion]

How do you that then without having a world government? We as a species have collectively decided that humans are easier to manage and improve the condition of if they are separated into disparate categories that have more in common within than without.

Nah, pretty sure that's something the people who benefit from the current arrangement tell us is true so that we don't start, you know, taking away their power.

Which is why Globalism is so popular.

How do you that then without having a world government? We as a species have collectively decided that humans are easier to manage and improve the condition of if they are separated into disparate categories that have more in common within than without.

And we have decided wrong.

I present the thousands of wars and conflicts as well as those who died in said wars and conflicts as evidence to that fact.

No. You have decided they were wrong. Most people disagree with you. Most people don't want open borders. Why? Because humans are inherently tribalistic and do not do well in situations that try to force them to break with that.

[New haven america]

1. I never said private property shouldn't be a thing. Stop strawmanning.
2. "NO U"
3. Legal immigrants are lucky enough to be able to pay their way in, illegal immigrants aren't lucky enough to.
4. Defending human stupidity is gonna hurt your case more than it helps.

1.) Well, that's a willful misinterpretation if I ever heard one.
2.) Same as the above.
3.) Or have skills we want. Contrary to your apparent beliefs, we are under no obligation to take people in because they like our country.
4.) It's not human stupidity, it's the basis for the only moral systems that actually hold up in the face of human society. All others fall apart. Tribalism is basic common sense. Human stupidity is abandoning it.

1. You obviously missed when I said that humans have the right to move between countries, not that they should be allowed wherever they want. Again, your strawman is shitty, do a better job next time because this is just embarrassing.
3. Labor is a form of payment. Also, almost all of the developed nations, including the US, have a birthrate that's below replacement level and not enough people to fill needed skilled and unskilled labor. But yeah, I'm sure lowering immigration will totally help that problem. /s
4. If you can't see why human's tribalistic behavior is a symptom of human's stupidity, then you're not helping your fellow humans.

[Ifreann]

Nah, pretty sure that's something the people who benefit from the current arrangement tell us is true so that we don't start, you know, taking away their power.

Sounds like you're just making shit up.

You're right, the people who benefit from the current arrangement don't even pretend that they're trying to improve our lives.

[Ifreann]

Nah, pretty sure that's something the people who benefit from the current arrangement tell us is true so that we don't start, you know, taking away their power.

Which is why Globalism is so popular.

Yes, exactly.

[New haven america]

Nah, pretty sure that's something the people who benefit from the current arrangement tell us is true so that we don't start, you know, taking away their power.

Which is why Globalism is so popular.

And we have decided wrong.

I present the thousands of wars and conflicts as well as those who died in said wars and conflicts as evidence to that fact.

No. You have decided they were wrong. Most people disagree with you. Most people don't want open borders. Why? Because humans are inherently tribalistic and do not do well in situations that try to force them to break with that.

Again, because humans ain't that bright.

Why the fuck did God have to make humans, the 2nd most violent great ape species behind Chimps, the dominant species on the planet? Why not the relatively peaceful Orangutans or Bonobos?

[New haven america]

And we have decided wrong.

I present the thousands of wars and conflicts as well as those who died in said wars and conflicts as evidence to that fact.

So do you support world conquest by an authoritarian state to correct this? Because I can't see any other way in which your system could even remotely work.

I support world unity by a free and fair democratic state.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Different peoples have wildly varying ideas on what would make life better.

Some people think that their life would be better if they could see a doctor when they're sick and get medicine or whatever to stop being sick. And other people think that that first person should die in a ditch if they don't have a big wad of cash. Lot of difficult choices ahead of us as we endeavour to make the world a better place.

Indeed. Have fun trying to make all these wildly different peoples get along.

[Bear Stearns]

1.) Well, that's a willful misinterpretation if I ever heard one.
2.) Same as the above.
3.) Or have skills we want. Contrary to your apparent beliefs, we are under no obligation to take people in because they like our country.
4.) It's not human stupidity, it's the basis for the only moral systems that actually hold up in the face of human society. All others fall apart. Tribalism is basic common sense. Human stupidity is abandoning it.

1. You obviously missed when I said that humans have the right to move between countries, not that they should be allowed wherever they want. Again, your strawman is shitty, do a better job next time because this is just embarrassing.
3. Labor is a form of payment. Also, almost all of the developed nations, including the US, has a birthrate that's below replacement level and no enough people to fill needed skilled and unskilled labor. But yeah, I'm sure lowering immigration will totally help that problem. /s
4. If you can't see why humans tribalistic behavior is a symptom of human's stupidity, then you're not helping your fellow humans.

I have a question for you, because you said you actually do believe in private property rights.

If people are allowed to prevent others from trespassing onto their private property, then presumably, a group of people have the right to collectively come together and prevent people from trespassing on their collective private property, so long as all of the property owners consent, right? Think of a gated community or a company town.

Now suppose this group of property owners was so large. Like we're talking millions of them. And they decided that they want to prevent trespassing on their land, but don't have the capability to do it themselves. So, they decide, by mutual consent, to finance an apparatus that will defend the borders of their collective properties and keep people they don't want out. Is that allowed?

[Bear Stearns]

So do you support world conquest by an authoritarian state to correct this? Because I can't see any other way in which your system could even remotely work.

I support world unity by a free and fair democratic state.

And what if people don't want to be part of this world state, regardless of how democratic it supposedly is, because they believe that they can better govern themselves alone?

[Bear Stearns]

Sounds like you're just making shit up.

You're right, the people who benefit from the current arrangement don't even pretend that they're trying to improve our lives.

What? Tons of people who believe in borders want to improve the lives of their people.

[New haven america]

You're right, the people who benefit from the current arrangement don't even pretend that they're trying to improve our lives.

What? Tons of people who believe in borders want to improve the lives of their people.

While keeping out the scary Others who also want a better life for themselves, their family, and usually the country they want to got to.

But no, they must be kept out because they weren't born or didn't have parents that weren't behind a certain arbitrarily drawn line.

[The Emerald Legion]

1.) Well, that's a willful misinterpretation if I ever heard one.
2.) Same as the above.
3.) Or have skills we want. Contrary to your apparent beliefs, we are under no obligation to take people in because they like our country.
4.) It's not human stupidity, it's the basis for the only moral systems that actually hold up in the face of human society. All others fall apart. Tribalism is basic common sense. Human stupidity is abandoning it.

1. You obviously missed when I said that humans have the right to move between countries, not that they should be allowed wherever they want. Again, your strawman is shitty, do a better job next time because this is just embarrassing.
3. Labor is a form of payment. Also, almost all of the developed nations, including the US, has a birthrate that's below replacement level and no enough people to fill needed skilled and unskilled labor. But yeah, I'm sure lowering immigration will totally help that problem. /s
4. If you can't see why humans tribalistic behavior is a symptom of human's stupidity, then you're not helping your fellow humans.

1.) Clearly you're incapable of understanding the parallel between not demonizing my neighbor but not wanting him in my house, and not demonizing our 'foreign neighbors' and not wanting them in the country. Which again, leads me to believe you're being willfully obtuse.

3.) Nonsense. Also, you act like that's actually an issue. It's not. More jobs than there are workers is desirable. Particularly considering we're rapidly approaching a point where automation is going to fuck our job market in the ass.

4.) I don't see it because it's not. I don't HAVE fellow Humans. I have Fellow Americans and even that's stretching it a bit considering I distrust most of them as well. That's as broad as I get until actual aliens show up.

[Trollgaard]

What? Tons of people who believe in borders want to improve the lives of their people.

While keeping out the scary Others who also want a better life for themselves, their family, and usually the country they want to got to.

But no, they must be kept out because they weren't born or didn't have parents that weren't behind a certain arbitrarily drawn line.

Nobody said they are scary.

I don't know if you have been told this, but life isn't fair. You don't always get what you want.

A nation is not obligated to let others move in.

And that's the way it has been, is, and will be for quite some time.

[New haven america]

1. You obviously missed when I said that humans have the right to move between countries, not that they should be allowed wherever they want. Again, your strawman is shitty, do a better job next time because this is just embarrassing.
3. Labor is a form of payment. Also, almost all of the developed nations, including the US, has a birthrate that's below replacement level and no enough people to fill needed skilled and unskilled labor. But yeah, I'm sure lowering immigration will totally help that problem. /s
4. If you can't see why humans tribalistic behavior is a symptom of human's stupidity, then you're not helping your fellow humans.

1.) Clearly you're incapable of understanding the parallel between not demonizing my neighbor but not wanting him in my house, and not demonizing our 'foreign neighbors' and not wanting them in the country. Which again, leads me to believe you're being willfully obtuse.

3.) Nonsense. Also, you act like that's actually an issue. It's not. More jobs than there are workers is desirable. Particularly considering we're rapidly approaching a point where automation is going to fuck our job market in the ass.

4.) I don't see it because it's not. I don't HAVE fellow Humans. I have Fellow Americans and even that's stretching it a bit considering I distrust most of them as well. That's as broad as I get until actual aliens show up.

1. A. That's a false equivalency, as you as an individual have a right to privacy on the property you own. You do not, however, own the country, and B. Yes, countries don't want their foreign neighbors in their country because human's stupidity and tribalistic behavior, I've been over this.
3. You've never heard of indentured servitude? You know, where you pay for something through labor to another?
4. And you don't see why this is an issue?

[Washington Resistance Army]

I support world unity by a free and fair democratic state.

And what if people don't want to be part of this world state, regardless of how democratic it supposedly is, because they believe that they can better govern themselves alone?

I'm also really interested in the answer to this one.

[Trollgaard]

1.) Clearly you're incapable of understanding the parallel between not demonizing my neighbor but not wanting him in my house, and not demonizing our 'foreign neighbors' and not wanting them in the country. Which again, leads me to believe you're being willfully obtuse.

3.) Nonsense. Also, you act like that's actually an issue. It's not. More jobs than there are workers is desirable. Particularly considering we're rapidly approaching a point where automation is going to fuck our job market in the ass.

4.) I don't see it because it's not. I don't HAVE fellow Humans. I have Fellow Americans and even that's stretching it a bit considering I distrust most of them as well. That's as broad as I get until actual aliens show up.

1. A. That's a false equivalency, as you as an individual have a right to privacy on the property you own. You do not, however, own the country, and B. Yes, countries don't want their foreign neighbors in their country because human's stupidity and tribalistic behavior, I've been over this.
3. You've never heard of indentured servitude? You know, where you pay for something through labor to another?
4. And you don't see why this is an issue?

And how, pray tell, is tribalism stupid?

It worked pretty damn well for humanity so far.

[New haven america]

While keeping out the scary Others who also want a better life for themselves, their family, and usually the country they want to got to.

But no, they must be kept out because they weren't born or didn't have parents that weren't behind a certain arbitrarily drawn line.

1. Nobody said they are scary.

2. I don't know if you have been told this, but life isn't fair. You don't always get what you want.

3. A nation is not obligated to let others move in.

4. And that's the way it has been, is, and will be for quite some time.

1. You don't have to say something to imply something
2. I'm aware. Now let me ask you: Why do you lot seem so dead set on making life more difficult and unfair for people?
3. Not right now, unfortunately.
4. Actually, the US and most other nations had open boarders for most of their history. The US only really started cracking down on who could come in or not during the 1920's, when the general population got scared of all the new European immigrants. (And before you fucking say it: China was the exception, not the rule. Got it?)

[Telconi]

And what if people don't want to be part of this world state, regardless of how democratic it supposedly is, because they believe that they can better govern themselves alone?

I'm also really interested in the answer to this one.

They go to the totally liberal gulag and get "reeducated" about how to be totally liberal, or else.

[Washington Resistance Army]

1. Nobody said they are scary.

2. I don't know if you have been told this, but life isn't fair. You don't always get what you want.

3. A nation is not obligated to let others move in.

4. And that's the way it has been, is, and will be for quite some time.

1. You don't have to say something to imply something
2. I'm aware. Now let me ask you: Why do you lot seem so dead set on making life more difficult and unfair for people?
3. Not right now, unfortunately.
4. Actually, the US and most other nations had open boarders for most of their history. The US only really started cracking down on who could come in or not during the 1920's, when the general population got scared of all the new European immigrants. (And before you fucking say it: China was the exception, not the rule. Got it?)

As far back as the 1790's we passed a law saying only good white Europeans could be citizens (and the time requirements actually got amended to be even longer as time went on) and a few decades later the Supreme Court explicitly said blacks couldn't be citizens lol. The US being a totally accepting and open place is a very recent thing.

[The Emerald Legion]

1.) Clearly you're incapable of understanding the parallel between not demonizing my neighbor but not wanting him in my house, and not demonizing our 'foreign neighbors' and not wanting them in the country. Which again, leads me to believe you're being willfully obtuse.

3.) Nonsense. Also, you act like that's actually an issue. It's not. More jobs than there are workers is desirable. Particularly considering we're rapidly approaching a point where automation is going to fuck our job market in the ass.

4.) I don't see it because it's not. I don't HAVE fellow Humans. I have Fellow Americans and even that's stretching it a bit considering I distrust most of them as well. That's as broad as I get until actual aliens show up.

1. A. That's a false equivalency, as you as an individual have a right to privacy on the property you own. You do not, however, own the country, and B. Yes, countries don't want their foreign neighbors in their country because human's stupidity and tribalistic behavior, I've been over this.
3. You've never heard of indentured servitude? You know, where you pay for something through labor to another?
4. And you don't see why this is an issue?

1.) Incorrect. It's appropriate equivalency. I don't own my home either, I have room-mates. We agree 'Don't let the neighbor in.' Just like the nation. We voted, and guess who got elected! The guy who wanted to build a huge fuckoff wall on the border.

3.) I have, but that's not what's happening now is it?

4.) No? why would I? You're the one with the weird hangups about it. Not me.

[Novus America]

So do you support world conquest by an authoritarian state to correct this? Because I can't see any other way in which your system could even remotely work.

I support world unity by a free and fair democratic state.

Borders would have to exist until your state existed, and it will never exist so...

[Novus America]

1. You don't have to say something to imply something
2. I'm aware. Now let me ask you: Why do you lot seem so dead set on making life more difficult and unfair for people?
3. Not right now, unfortunately.
4. Actually, the US and most other nations had open boarders for most of their history. The US only really started cracking down on who could come in or not during the 1920's, when the general population got scared of all the new European immigrants. (And before you fucking say it: China was the exception, not the rule. Got it?)

As far back as the 1790's we passed a law saying only good white Europeans could be citizens (and the time requirements actually got amended to be even longer as time went on) and a few decades later the Supreme Court explicitly said blacks couldn't be citizens lol. The US being a totally accepting and open place is a very recent thing.

This is true. It was not until 1952 we removed racial discrimination from immigration laws.

[New haven america]

1. A. That's a false equivalency, as you as an individual have a right to privacy on the property you own. You do not, however, own the country, and B. Yes, countries don't want their foreign neighbors in their country because human's stupidity and tribalistic behavior, I've been over this.
3. You've never heard of indentured servitude? You know, where you pay for something through labor to another?
4. And you don't see why this is an issue?

1. And how, pray tell, is tribalism stupid?

2. It worked pretty damn well for humanity so far.

1. It divides a social species between arbitrary lines and definitions, leading to members of said species to demonize others of a tribe, leading to fights over resources, ideas, money, etc... in a never ending struggle to make one's tribe the most successful (Even if that means harming members of one's own tribe), even though the species would be much better off working together to solve commonly shared issues.
2. In the 20th century alone we had: WWI, WWII, The Congo Wars, The Yugoslav Wars, Chinas Communist Revolution, Russia' Communist Revolution, The Korean War, The Vietnam War, Contra Campaigns, The Cuban Missile Crisis, India and Pakistan, Israeli-Arab Wars, The Holocaust, Armenian Genocide, etc...

All of those could've been avoided if human as a whole got its head out of its ass and collectively work together to solve the issues they faced instead of fighting and murdering well over 100,000,000 of their fellow humans.

[Trollgaard]

1. Nobody said they are scary.

2. I don't know if you have been told this, but life isn't fair. You don't always get what you want.

3. A nation is not obligated to let others move in.

4. And that's the way it has been, is, and will be for quite some time.

1. You don't have to say something to imply something
2. I'm aware. Now let me ask you: Why do you lot seem so dead set on making life more difficult and unfair for people?
3. Not right now, unfortunately.
4. Actually, the US and most other nations had open boarders for most of their history. The US only really started cracking down on who could come in or not during the 1920's, when the general population got scared of all the new European immigrants. (And before you fucking say it: China was the exception, not the rule. Got it?)

1. You interpret things strangely, then.
2. I'm not. I don't agree with open borders. If they want to move here, great! Stand in line.
3. lmao
4. In the past massive migrations were done at the point of the sword. People moved to the new world yes, but that's when it was a frontier and lots of building was necessary. We don't need massive migration anymore.