California Offers Healthcare Benefits To Illegal Immigrants

[Telconi]

In my state of Texas, which has the same problem, a majority of them are day workers who are paid in cash, so nothing has been deducted for taxes. The only tax revenue you get from them is sales tax, which is apparently not enough considering there are people wanting to "have the rich pay there fair share" *cough cough* https://www.wsj.com/articles/top-20-of- ... 1523007001

Property tax exists. Additionally, most illegal immigrants pay taxes through the IRS.

Also, tax loopholes really drop down what the rich actually pay.

The tax source basically just points out the provisions exist for them to pay, and specifically says it's own support is anecdotal, and only proves that some immigrants do utilize those provisions.

Problem about undocumented employment is it's lack of documentation. It would be hard to nail down exactly what the rate of tax compliance is.

[Kowani]

Citation needed.

Never heard of the Ethiopian Civil War?

If it was during the civil war, that would’ve had a drastic effect on their immigration application.

How so?

I can get non emergency surgery in a week. It doesnt take 6 months to see a shrink without being suicidal. I can change shrinks on a moments notice.

It’ll also bankrupt you to do so.

Property tax exists. Additionally, most illegal immigrants pay taxes through the IRS.

Also, tax loopholes really drop down what the rich actually pay.

Fair point on undocumented immigrant paying taxes, but as you mention for the rich, the illegals can also look for loopholes, and a majority of people on the argument of the rich paying taxes do not mention the loopholes, and just want to raise the rate, and generally the rate gets increased across the board as well.

Actually, the IRS audits the poor the same rate as the rich, and the poor have less lawyers, time and accountants with which to hide their stuff. So, no, they typically can’t look for loopholes.

As for the loopholes, most of the voting populace thinks we should close the loopholes and then raise rates.

[Telconi]

Never heard of the Ethiopian Civil War?

If it was during the civil war, that would’ve had a drastic effect on their immigration application.

I can get non emergency surgery in a week. It doesnt take 6 months to see a shrink without being suicidal. I can change shrinks on a moments notice.

It’ll also bankrupt you to do so.

Fair point on undocumented immigrant paying taxes, but as you mention for the rich, the illegals can also look for loopholes, and a majority of people on the argument of the rich paying taxes do not mention the loopholes, and just want to raise the rate, and generally the rate gets increased across the board as well.

Actually, the IRS audits the poor the same rate as the rich, and the poor have less lawyers, time and accountants with which to hide their stuff. So, no, they typically can’t look for loopholes.

As for the loopholes, most of the voting populace thinks we should close the loopholes and then raise rates.

As someone who was bankrupted by the direct action of healthcare reform legislation, the financial costs of the current system don't seem too bad.

[Kowani]

Property tax exists. Additionally, most illegal immigrants pay taxes through the IRS.

Also, tax loopholes really drop down what the rich actually pay.

The tax source basically just points out the provisions exist for them to pay, and specifically says it's own support is anecdotal, and only proves that some immigrants do utilize those provisions.

Problem about undocumented employment is it's lack of documentation. It would be hard to nail down exactly what the rate of tax compliance is.

6 million people, In 2008, where there were less immigrants.

[New Lindale]

How so?

I can get non emergency surgery in a week. It doesnt take 6 months to see a shrink without being suicidal. I can change shrinks on a moments notice.

Not to mention the medical staff having better pay. Funny in the Universal Health debate, we never hear from the opposition of the medical staff.

[New Lindale]

The tax source basically just points out the provisions exist for them to pay, and specifically says it's own support is anecdotal, and only proves that some immigrants do utilize those provisions.

Problem about undocumented employment is it's lack of documentation. It would be hard to nail down exactly what the rate of tax compliance is.

6 million people, In 2008, where there were less immigrants.

That was 11 years ago, how is that relevant now?

[Gormwood]

But letting people have healthcare is communism!

Jesus healed the sick without charging them copay. Communism at its worst.

[Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio]

This is great! Ideally it would include everyone in the state regardless, but any improvement is good.

[New Lindale]

But letting people have healthcare is communism!

Jesus healed the sick without charging them copay. Communism at its worst.

Jesus did not advocate for the state to seize people's property and redistribute it. He advocated for those to work hard, and you realise everyone needs money too. We all keep forgetting that we have social programs to help the poor, but that doesn't seem to matter.

[Kowani]

If it was during the civil war, that would’ve had a drastic effect on their immigration application.


It’ll also bankrupt you to do so.


Actually, the IRS audits the poor the same rate as the rich, and the poor have less lawyers, time and accountants with which to hide their stuff. So, no, they typically can’t look for loopholes.

As for the loopholes, most of the voting populace thinks we should close the loopholes and then raise rates.

As someone who was bankrupted by the direct action of healthcare reform legislation, the financial costs of the current system don't seem too bad.

You are the statistical minority.

6 million people, In 2008, where there were less immigrants.

That was 11 years ago, how is that relevant now?

…Yeah, it’s not going to have changed all that much.

:clap:

This is great! Ideally it would include everyone in the state regardless, but any improvement is good.

There’s already a program for poor citizens.

[Ethel mermania]

Never heard of the Ethiopian Civil War?

If it was during the civil war, that would’ve had a drastic effect on their immigration application.

I can get non emergency surgery in a week. It doesnt take 6 months to see a shrink without being suicidal. I can change shrinks on a moments notice.

It’ll also bankrupt you to do so.

Fair point on undocumented immigrant paying taxes, but as you mention for the rich, the illegals can also look for loopholes, and a majority of people on the argument of the rich paying taxes do not mention the loopholes, and just want to raise the rate, and generally the rate gets increased across the board as well.

Actually, the IRS audits the poor the same rate as the rich, and the poor have less lawyers, time and accountants with which to hide their stuff. So, no, they typically can’t look for loopholes.

As for the loopholes, most of the voting populace thinks we should close the loopholes and then raise rates.

No, it will not, I like most Americans have pretty good insurance. My out of pocket for my two most recent surgerical procedures was about 300 dollars.

As a separate aside, a lot of you folks are talking about illegals not paying taxes, while some dont, a lot do. The IRS will not turn in an illegal alien as long as they get their tax money.

[Kowani]

If it was during the civil war, that would’ve had a drastic effect on their immigration application.


It’ll also bankrupt you to do so.


Actually, the IRS audits the poor the same rate as the rich, and the poor have less lawyers, time and accountants with which to hide their stuff. So, no, they typically can’t look for loopholes.

As for the loopholes, most of the voting populace thinks we should close the loopholes and then raise rates.

No, it will not, I like most Americans have pretty good insurance. My out of pocket for my two most recent surgerical procedures was about 300 dollars.

Statistical minority.

[Telconi]

As someone who was bankrupted by the direct action of healthcare reform legislation, the financial costs of the current system don't seem too bad.

You are the statistical minority.

That was 11 years ago, how is that relevant now?

…Yeah, it’s not going to have changed all that much.

:clap:

This is great! Ideally it would include everyone in the state regardless, but any improvement is good.

There’s already a program for poor citizens.

So were blacks in antebellum America, we still consider what happened to them bad.

[Kowani]

You are the statistical minority.


…Yeah, it’s not going to have changed all that much.


There’s already a program for poor citizens.

So were blacks in antebellum America, we still consider what happened to them bad.

And yet more people benefited from healthcare reform than did not. Slavery does not have that advantage.

[Telconi]

So were blacks in antebellum America, we still consider what happened to them bad.

And yet more people benefited from healthcare reform than did not. Slavery does not have that advantage.

Debatable.

[Novus America]

No, it will not, I like most Americans have pretty good insurance. My out of pocket for my two most recent surgerical procedures was about 300 dollars.

Statistical minority.

Most Americans file for bankruptcy?
For that to be proven you would have to prove more Americans file for healthcare related bankruptcy than do not file for bankruptcy, something your source does not support.

Also this
“While the high cost of health care has historically been a trigger for bankruptcy filings, the research shows that the implementation of the Affordable Care Act has not improved things.”
refutes one of your earlier claims. And regardless people with good insurance will not be happy about get shitty insurance, something any healthcare reform has to take in to account.

[Brocialist]

This doesn't go far enough. We should give health care to everyone in the United States.

[Novus America]

They have a point though. Why aren’t we going to universal healthcare? We have millions of Americans suffering. Focusing on the undocumented immigrants is a non-Issue when we have millions of suffering American citizens

We can’t do universal healthcare in one state, ‘cause then you’d see everyone else try to flood it. You’d have to deal that on the National level.

So how come Europe can?
You would not see most people flood it because most Americans already have health care, and healthcare is just one of many factors that people consider.

Also encouraging people to come in to take advantage is clear not a concern for California here...

[Vassenor]

Jesus healed the sick without charging them copay. Communism at its worst.

Jesus did not advocate for the state to seize people's property and redistribute it. He advocated for those to work hard, and you realise everyone needs money too. We all keep forgetting that we have social programs to help the poor, but that doesn't seem to matter.

You seem to keep forgetting that too when you talk about how this is stealing healthcare from them.

[Fartsniffage]

This doesn't go far enough. We should give health care to everyone in the United States.

I mean, not even the UK does that. If you are illegal then the NHS will provide emergency care but that's it.

[New Lindale]

Statistical minority.

Most Americans file for bankruptcy?
For that to be proven you would have to prove more Americans file for healthcare related bankruptcy than do not file for bankruptcy, something your source does not support.

Also this
“While the high cost of health care has historically been a trigger for bankruptcy filings, the research shows that the implementation of the Affordable Care Act has not improved things.”
refutes one of your earlier claims. And regardless people with good insurance will not be happy about get shitty insurance, something any healthcare reform has to take in to account.

The answer to why healthcare in the US sucks today is because of PPACA. The law had increased already stringent regulations on health insurance, and competition had deteriorated and prices soared. Also, why do we keep advocating for Universal Health Care, when it is already apparent that the states already have a tax payer funded program? It is because the government wants to seize on control on the health industry, and the result will end up with poorer quality. But hey, atleast it's universal!

[Ethel mermania]

No, it will not, I like most Americans have pretty good insurance. My out of pocket for my two most recent surgerical procedures was about 300 dollars.

Statistical minority.

I dont think you understand statistics very well. A small minority of americans file for bankruptcy. Which has nothing to do with how many americans are covered

Now tbh, this is a thread Jack. Universal health care is not the topic of the thread. Extending benefits to illegal aliens is the topic.

[Novus America]

This doesn't go far enough. We should give health care to everyone in the United States.

I mean, not even the UK does that. If you are illegal then the NHS will provide emergency care but that's it.

I agree. While we should ensure all Americans have access to healthcare (but absolutely NOT via a one sized fits all system), for those who are not Americans it is their country’s responsibility, not ours.

[Kowani]

Statistical minority.

Most Americans file for bankruptcy?
For that to be proven you would have to prove more Americans file for healthcare related bankruptcy than do not file for bankruptcy, something your source does not support.

I never claimed that most Americans file for bankruptcy because of healthcare costs…
However, it is also true that the cost of healthcare is becoming long-term untenable, and that’s without including the actual coverage or quality.
“Unless you’re Jeff Bezos, people don’t have very good alternatives, because the insurance that is available and affordable to people, or that most people’s employers provide them, is not adequate protection if you’re sick”

Also this
“While the high cost of health care has historically been a trigger for bankruptcy filings, the research shows that the implementation of the Affordable Care Act has not improved things.”
refutes one of your earlier claims. I know. I’m not defending the ACA on a financial basis, but rather, an access to care one-Which it wins.
And regardless people with good insurance will not be happy about get shitty insurance, something any healthcare reform has to take in to account.

About That…

[Vassenor]

Most Americans file for bankruptcy?
For that to be proven you would have to prove more Americans file for healthcare related bankruptcy than do not file for bankruptcy, something your source does not support.

Also this
“While the high cost of health care has historically been a trigger for bankruptcy filings, the research shows that the implementation of the Affordable Care Act has not improved things.”
refutes one of your earlier claims. And regardless people with good insurance will not be happy about get shitty insurance, something any healthcare reform has to take in to account.

The answer to why healthcare in the US sucks today is because of PPACA. The law had increased already stringent regulations on health insurance, and competition had deteriorated and prices soared. Also, why do we keep advocating for Universal Health Care, when it is already apparent that the states already have a tax payer funded program? It is because the government wants to seize on control on the health industry, and the result will end up with poorer quality. But hey, atleast it's universal!

So let's see your evidence that universal state-funded healthcare will "will end up with poorer quality".