California Offers Healthcare Benefits To Illegal Immigrants

[Ifreann]

It should, but it's politically impossible at the moment because the Republican president and senate are completely insane when it comes to healthcare policy.

You say that like the USA doesn't have better healthcare than the rest of the developed world.

Which it does.

I'm sure you have plenty of very good doctors and advanced facilities and fentanyl being handed out on every street corner, but that's obviously not what FAE was getting at.

[Chan Island]

OK.

Maybe not something that the state should be doing, but I can see the rationale for it and bear no ill will against it.

[Novus America]

The size and complexity of a place is absolutely relevant to administration.

In that doing things on a large scale is generally more efficient, not less.

And nobody in the EU is seriously proposing one centralized EU healthcare system.

We don't need to: we don't have members routinely violating people's right to healthcare for profit.

Except that doesn't work, at all. See, for example, the utter and complete fucking disaster that is the US primary/secondary education system.

Not really.

Not always. Also remember you can be efficient yet also ineffective.
One sized fits all is not always efficient and more rarely effective.

The US primary education needs improvement in places. But is not an utter and complete disaster. In many places it is quite good.
And would you say Medicaid is an utter and complete disaster?

Many EU countries have for for profit healthcare. Also healthcare in the US also is a mixed system, consisting of for profit, non profits AND government administrated and supplied care.
So your knowledge of both the EU and US also needs work.

Germany has a mixed system that is large decentralized in many aspects, states administer aspects of it. It works. In Canada healthcare is primarily administered at the Provincial level.

And if you think rural Alaska and NYC have identical healthcare needs and concerns I am not sure what to say. You apparently do not understand the US at all.

[First American Empire]

It should, but it's politically impossible at the moment because the Republican president and senate are completely insane when it comes to healthcare policy.

You say that like the USA doesn't have better healthcare than the rest of the developed world.

Which it does.

I live in the USA. I know from personal experience that the USA's healthcare is much, much worse. If the USA had better healthcare, it would have to not have a single uninsured person and not have vastly more expensive medical costs per capita, which is obviously not the case.

[The Emerald Legion]

You say that like the USA doesn't have better healthcare than the rest of the developed world.

Which it does.

I live in the USA. I know from personal experience that the USA's healthcare is much, much worse. If the USA had better healthcare, it would have to not have a single uninsured person and vastly more expensive medical costs per capita, which is obviously not the case.

You're confusing quality of care with availability. The latter isn't as important as the former.

[Ifreann]

I live in the USA. I know from personal experience that the USA's healthcare is much, much worse. If the USA had better healthcare, it would have to not have a single uninsured person and vastly more expensive medical costs per capita, which is obviously not the case.

You're confusing quality of care with availability. The latter isn't as important as the former.

You're confusing quality of care with healthcare policy. Deliberately, I suspect.

[Novus America]

You're confusing quality of care with availability. The latter isn't as important as the former.

You're confusing quality of care with healthcare policy. Deliberately, I suspect.

It really comes down to what measures of quality you are using and how you weight them.
The US does quite well by many measures of quality.

But still has severe problems in two main areas, (areas not always covered by quality measures) cost (ours is high). And nobody should say it is expensive because it is not “free”, literally no country has free healthcare. Cost of the system per person and out of pocket costs to the direct user on a use basis are not necessarily the same.

The other area is availability. While it is available to most (contrary to popular belief public government administered and funded healthcare DOES exist in the US), there is a segment of society that is not necessarily covered. Each government program has eligibility standards, and you are generally not automatically enrolled. It is possible you are eligible for none of the programs, or you are eligible and never signed up because you did not know you were eligible.

[The Emerald Legion]

You're confusing quality of care with availability. The latter isn't as important as the former.

You're confusing quality of care with healthcare policy. Deliberately, I suspect.

Not particularly. When you decide that you must completely throw out the current system in order to focus on cost cutting and availability boosting measures. It's reasonable to assume that the practices that make American Healthcare more expensive but more effective than other nations will be lost.

[Page]

It should, but it's politically impossible at the moment because the Republican president and senate are completely insane when it comes to healthcare policy.

You say that like the USA doesn't have better healthcare than the rest of the developed world.

Which it does.

The quality of American health care is meaningless to the people who can't afford to get it.

[Nakena]

You say that like the USA doesn't have better healthcare than the rest of the developed world.

Which it does.

The quality of American health care is meaningless to the people who can't afford to get it.

Point in case. It's a pity.

[The Emerald Legion]

You say that like the USA doesn't have better healthcare than the rest of the developed world.

Which it does.

The quality of American health care is meaningless to the people who can't afford to get it.

And those people's opinions are irrelevant as they don't participate.

[Page]

The quality of American health care is meaningless to the people who can't afford to get it.

And those people's opinions are irrelevant as they don't participate.

I will give you a chance to clarify what you said so I don't unfairly twist your words.

The opinions of people who can't afford health care they need to live don't matter?

[The Emerald Legion]

And those people's opinions are irrelevant as they don't participate.

I will give you a chance to clarify what you said so I don't unfairly twist your words.

The opinions of people who can't afford health care they need to live don't matter?

In short, yes. People die because there is a lack of resources. In order to obtain resources, Hospitals require money. In order to entice skilled doctors, doctoring must be something people want to do and can make a living out of.

Pretending you can treat everyone just means everyone gets shit care and people die anyway. You've simply changed who dies.

[Tornado Queendom]

This will be a slippery slope, which will lead to the slow death of California. Today, they're giving free healthcare to illegal aliens. Tomorrow, they're gonna deport legal citizens (especially whites and the indigenous population).

[Liriena]

This will be a slippery slope, which will lead to the slow death of California. Today, they're giving free healthcare to illegal aliens. Tomorrow, they're gonna deport legal citizens (especially whites and the indigenous population).

That's hot.

[Vassenor]

This will be a slippery slope, which will lead to the slow death of California. Today, they're giving free healthcare to illegal aliens. Tomorrow, they're gonna deport legal citizens (especially whites and the indigenous population).

Well that escalated quickly.

[Aeritai]

This will be a slippery slope, which will lead to the slow death of California. Today, they're giving free healthcare to illegal aliens. Tomorrow, they're gonna deport legal citizens (especially whites and the indigenous population).

That is very unlikely...

[Salandriagado]

It should, but it's politically impossible at the moment because the Republican president and senate are completely insane when it comes to healthcare policy.

You say that like the USA doesn't have better healthcare than the rest of the developed world.

Which it does.

No, it doesn't. A small percentage of the US does.

[Salandriagado]

In that doing things on a large scale is generally more efficient, not less.



We don't need to: we don't have members routinely violating people's right to healthcare for profit.



Not really.

Not always. Also remember you can be efficient yet also ineffective.
One sized fits all is not always efficient and more rarely effective.

Why are you still pretending that "universal healthcare" means "one size fits all"?

The US primary education needs improvement in places. But is not an utter and complete disaster. In many places it is quite good.

Yes, it is.

And would you say Medicaid is an utter and complete disaster?

I don't know enough about it to comment.

Many EU countries have for for profit healthcare.

But also government-funded systems that work.

Also healthcare in the US also is a mixed system, consisting of for profit, non profits AND government administrated and supplied care.
So your knowledge of both the EU and US also needs work.

No, your ability to respond to what I actually said does.

Germany has a mixed system that is large decentralized in many aspects, states administer aspects of it. It works. In Canada healthcare is primarily administered at the Provincial level.

And this has precisely nothing to do with anything that I said.

And if you think rural Alaska and NYC have identical healthcare needs and concerns I am not sure what to say. You apparently do not understand the US at all.

Name a significant difference.

[Salandriagado]

I live in the USA. I know from personal experience that the USA's healthcare is much, much worse. If the USA had better healthcare, it would have to not have a single uninsured person and vastly more expensive medical costs per capita, which is obviously not the case.

You're confusing quality of care with availability. The latter isn't as important as the former.

Yeah, no. Giving amazing care to a relatively small percentage of the population is not better than giving very good care to the entire population.

[Salandriagado]

You're confusing quality of care with healthcare policy. Deliberately, I suspect.

Not particularly. When you decide that you must completely throw out the current system in order to focus on cost cutting and availability boosting measures. It's reasonable to assume that the practices that make American Healthcare more expensive but more effective than other nations will be lost.

Except that it isn't more effective, and there's absolutely no reason to assume that at all.

[Salandriagado]

I will give you a chance to clarify what you said so I don't unfairly twist your words.

The opinions of people who can't afford health care they need to live don't matter?

In short, yes. People die because there is a lack of resources. In order to obtain resources, Hospitals require money. In order to entice skilled doctors, doctoring must be something people want to do and can make a living out of.

Pretending you can treat everyone just means everyone gets shit care and people die anyway. You've simply changed who dies.

Stop fucking lying.

[Great Minarchistan]

Good call using taxpayer money to attend illegals instead of using it to fix stuff like california's terrible infrastructure...

Why aren't you laughing?

[The Emerald Legion]

In short, yes. People die because there is a lack of resources. In order to obtain resources, Hospitals require money. In order to entice skilled doctors, doctoring must be something people want to do and can make a living out of.

Pretending you can treat everyone just means everyone gets shit care and people die anyway. You've simply changed who dies.

Stop fucking lying.

I'm not lying. I'm telling the 100% fucking truth.

The standard of care is higher in the US, we use better, stronger, medicines, we use experimental treatments, we do more to keep you healthy if you pay.

Like, at all. Not even paying a lot. If you can pay the minimum amount? You are still getting better care than in other countries. You are 45% more likely to die in a hospital in the UK than in the US.

You want it to be cheaper, great. Too bad. I'd rather not die because you insist we can only have shitty doctors, so that everyone can afford to go to the doctor.

If you want people to have medical care when poor? Pay their way yourself. If it really bothers you that much. Get together with a bunch of people who also care about the subject, and start a charity. People can crowdfund millions of dollars for boardgames and potato salad. Y'think you won't get a few takers for someones healthcare?

[Salandriagado]

Stop fucking lying.

I'm not lying. I'm telling the 100% fucking truth.

No you aren't.

The standard of care is higher in the US, we use better, stronger, medicines, we use experimental treatments, we do more to keep you healthy if you pay.

Not true at all. You use precisely the same medicines as everybody else, and use experimental treatments rather less than countries with less of a concern about being sued.

Like, at all. Not even paying a lot. If you can pay the minimum amount? You are still getting better care than in other countries.

No you aren't. Not at all.

[quote You are 45% more likely to die in a hospital in the UK than in the US.[/quote]

Because people who have fatal illnesses go to fucking hospital where they get treated, rather than staying at home and dying at home.

You want it to be cheaper, great. Too bad. I'd rather not die because you insist we can only have shitty doctors, so that everyone can afford to go to the doctor.

You're lying again.

If you want people to have medical care when poor? Pay their way yourself. If it really bothers you that much. Get together with a bunch of people who also care about the subject, and start a charity. People can crowdfund millions of dollars for boardgames and potato salad. Y'think you won't get a few takers for someones healthcare?

We have. It's called "the NHS". It works excellently.