Should Slavery/Indentured Servitude be brought back?

[Ngelmish]

I’m going to ignore the ad hominem,

It's not a personal attack, you objectively are on this matter.

It's a criticism of your/their situation in the matter not ad hominem.

No, your holy text is literally redacted page to page.

Pointing out that that requires motivated reasoning is neither uneducated nor ignorant.

[Pacomia]

Essentially, there is no logical counter-argument you can make against “a text from antiquity says so.” Two sides starting from a fundamentally different set of premises will never reach agreement.

Utilitarian considerations and the principles of liberal democracy, in this case, are both fundamentally different sets of premises than religious faith.

This is similar with old legal documents. Maybe this was okay in 500 AD, but not now.

[The Realm of Platinum]

Nobody expects the Islamic Inquisition
now crucify El-Amin (jk)

[Kowani]

Essentially, there is no logical counter-argument you can make against “a text from antiquity says so.” Two sides starting from a fundamentally different set of premises will never reach agreement.

Utilitarian considerations and the principles of liberal democracy, in this case, are both fundamentally different sets of premises than religious faith.

Sure you can, with two words. “Prove it.”

[Springfeal]

Raping female slaves is inherently a mistreatment.

This doesn't answer my question

Oh, so rape is okay as long as it's Islamic rape. Got it.

[Kowani]

Sponsored by way too many people since underage sex trafficking is one the main forms of slavery in the modern day

Side note: How the fuck does one get off on children? (Unless you're also underage)

Mental illness.

[Nova Cyberia]

This doesn't answer my question

Oh, so rape is okay as long as it's Islamic rape. Got it.

He thinks a lot of atrocities are okay as long as they're done in the name of Islam.

Honestly, I'm getting more and more convinced that freedom of religion was a mistake.

[Vallermoore]

Perhaps as punishment (after a fair trial) for certain crimes as an alternative to prison, with death for slaves who rebel, as they are too criminal to be free and too rebellious to be slaves. Even then though, the slaves should retain certain rights (no torture/murder, no using them as sex slaves or making them break the laws further.)

[Springfeal]

Oh, so rape is okay as long as it's Islamic rape. Got it.

He thinks a lot of atrocities are okay as long as they're done in the name of Islam.

Honestly, I'm getting more and more convinced that freedom of religion was a mistake.

Agreed. Some religions are just twisted.

[Plzen]

Sure you can, with two words. “Prove it.”

You can’t prove premises. They are, well, given premises. An a priori understanding of the world which we use to interpret everything we learn about the world.

I believe, for example, that ceteris paribus people getting what they want is good. If you ask me to prove this I’d be very hard-pressed to do so without devolving into philosophy and ethics, which are both minefields that minds far more intelligent than ours have debated for millennia without much success.

A faithfully religious person just doesn’t see the world in the same way I do, and no amount of logical reasoning will help either of us defeat each other’s basic premises.

[Cekoviu]

He thinks a lot of atrocities are okay as long as they're done in the name of Islam.

Honestly, I'm getting more and more convinced that freedom of religion was a mistake.

Agreed. Some religions are just twisted.

It's more that Amin in particular chooses to interpret it in a twisted manner.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Sure you can, with two words. “Prove it.”

You can’t prove premises. They are, well, given premises. An a priori understanding of the world which we use to interpret everything we learn about the world.

I believe, for example, that ceteris paribus people getting what they want is good. If you ask me to prove this I’d be very hard-pressed to do so without devolving into philosophy and ethics, which are minefields that minds far more intelligent than hours have debated for millennia without much success.

A faithfully religious person just doesn’t see the world in the same way I do, and no amount of logical reasoning will help either of us defeat each other’s basic premises.

Desire Satisfaction Theory of the good is flawed, namely in that some people want to do things that are bad for them.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Agreed. Some religions are just twisted.

It's more that Amin in particular chooses to interpret it in a twisted manner.

Tbh, he's right about Islam in a lot of ways. Islam does have slavery as an important part of it.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

This doesn't answer my question

Oh, so rape is okay as long as it's Islamic rape. Got it.

This still doesn't answer my question.

[Nakena]

It's more that Amin in particular chooses to interpret it in a twisted manner.

Tbh, he's right about Islam in a lot of ways. Islam does have slavery as an important part of it.

Yes, hes somewhat close to traditional and islamist interpretations. With some quite big differences, twists and akward oddities however. It's detached from certain actual traditions and cultural backgrounds.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Except, you don't get to say that. Not unless you want to argue that every islamic cleric before slavery went out of style, and the majority after slavery went out of style, were/are wrong.

What? What Muslim Islamic scholars advocated mistreatment of slaves based on the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah?

Owning slaves is mistreatment, and we're talking about forms of slavery that had castration.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Agreed. Some religions are just twisted.

It's more that Amin in particular chooses to interpret it in a twisted manner.

How so?

[Cekoviu]

It's more that Amin in particular chooses to interpret it in a twisted manner.

How so?

Are you really asking that question?
Why don't you try reading through your posts in this thread and then posing the question again if you feel it hasn't been answered?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

How so?

Are you really asking that question?
Why don't you try reading through your posts in this thread and then posing the question again if you feel it hasn't been answered?

Because it's the responsibility of the claimant to prove their claim.

[Nakena]

It's more that Amin in particular chooses to interpret it in a twisted manner.

How so?

Your posts come across as quite dodgy. And sometimes I can't help but getting the impression that you play intentionally the naive. Maybe I am wrong about this.

However it appears to be pretty clear by now that the stuff you try to sell isn't taken anymore as goodwill and benefit of doubt on our side have run out to play the game anymore.

[United Muscovite Nations]

How so?

Are you really asking that question?
Why don't you try reading through your posts in this thread and then posing the question again if you feel it hasn't been answered?

It's not an issue with Amin though, his opinion on that isn't controversial in Islamic scholarship. My own book on Sharia contains guidance in owning slaves and taking captives, and is by a well-respected Mufti in Malaysia.

[Vetalia]

This still doesn't answer my question.

Are you big on slaves, boss?

[Bombadil]

Back in 1850, a slave in the American South cost the equivalent of $40,000 in today's money.

Then just pay someone $40, 000, why bring slavery into it?

[Springfeal]

Are you really asking that question?
Why don't you try reading through your posts in this thread and then posing the question again if you feel it hasn't been answered?

Because it's the responsibility of the claimant to prove their claim.

You are the only one making claims around here. Very bizarre twisted ones at that.

[Saint Arsenio]

Because it's the responsibility of the claimant to prove their claim.

You are the only one making claims around here. Very bizarre twisted ones at that.

True.