Should Slavery/Indentured Servitude be brought back?

[Kowani]

Islamic slavery comes from the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah. Idk what point you're making here besides what looks like you saying that the teachings of Islamic slavery are a lie.

[cough] they are

Damn, this thread is savage.

[Glaristant]

Really now? It seems like you've spent the majority of this debate being more interested in bashing/decrying so called "atheist propaganda" rather than actually providing them with something of worth to study. If you really want them to study, then might I suggest doing something other than just calling those who disagree with you uneducated or blind? Perhaps you could provide some resources that further elaborate/give the people here reason to support your viewpoint? I mean no disrespect, but it takes more than insults to convince someone to change their views on particular subject, especially one as sensitive/divisive as religion.

Frankly fair statement. I admit that as a flaw with my method caused.

It's less a flaw with your method rather than in how you approached this debate. In the future you need to approach debates such as this with an open mind/willingness to learn from your opponents have to say. Be true your beliefs, but never allow them to prevent you from taking an opportunity to learn/broaden your horizon. That's the only way you'll learn/be able to grow both intellectually and as a person.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Islamic slavery comes from the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah. Idk what point you're making here besides what looks like you saying that the teachings of Islamic slavery are a lie.

[cough] they are

How?

[Grenartia]

Your question has been answered.

Again, I'm not talking about Muslims. I'm asking about Al-Islam. Besides, slaves in Louisiana were heavily mistreated by their masters. This is contrary to the Islamic teachings of "no maltreatment whatsoever, and if you do, the slave can hit you back/you must free your slave".

Slavery itself is inherently maltreatment. Regardless if it's ""Islamic"" or not.

[Neanderthaland]

Your question has been answered.

Again, I'm not talking about Muslims. I'm asking about Al-Islam. Besides, slaves in Louisiana were heavily mistreated by their masters. This is contrary to the Islamic teachings of "no maltreatment whatsoever, and if you do, the slave can hit you back/you must free your slave".

How dare you judge Chattel Slavery by what Masters in Louisiana did? Instead you should only judge it by the propaganda they wrote about slavery!

[Cekoviu]

[cough] they are

How?

For starters, they constitute part of Islam, which is a lie.

[Grenartia]

Again, I'm not talking about Muslims. I'm asking about Al-Islam. Besides, slaves in Louisiana were heavily mistreated by their masters. This is contrary to the Islamic teachings of "no maltreatment whatsoever, and if you do, the slave can hit you back/you must free your slave".

How dare you judge Chattel Slavery by what Masters in Louisiana did? Instead you should only judge it by the propaganda they wrote about slavery!

This is unironically what you sound like, Amin.

[Diopolis]

So you're going to defend a purity standard of Islamic slavery?
I remember when this kind of debate was always over communism.
That's not how this works. The imams of the day seemed to think that the practice of slavery at the time was within the strictures of Islamic law, so you don't get to retroactively declare that it isn't "true Islamic slavery"... just like how leninists don't get to declare that the USSR under Stalin isn't true leninism. I'm not particularly interested in the latter day apologists who slap on additional rights of slaves that weren't recognized by the islamic clerical hierarchy of any actual muslim slave owning society.

Islamic slavery comes from the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah. Idk what point you're making here besides what looks like you saying that the teachings of Islamic slavery are a lie.

I'm saying that I'll trust the caliphs and imams of societies which practiced slavery over a random internet yahoo with a proclivity towards purity tests on what Islamic slavery actually looks and acts like.
I have the same issue with fellow Catholics who attempt the same maneuver to defend slavery.

[Genivaria]

Your question has been answered.

Again, I'm not talking about Muslims. I'm asking about Al-Islam. Besides, slaves in Louisiana were heavily mistreated by their masters. This is contrary to the Islamic teachings of "no maltreatment whatsoever, and if you do, the slave can hit you back/you must free your slave".

Yes we know you're desperate to divorce your special brand of Islam in theory to Islam in practice but ideologies don't work like that.

Besides, slaves in Louisiana were heavily mistreated by their masters

Just like in Islamic nations.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Again, I'm not talking about Muslims. I'm asking about Al-Islam. Besides, slaves in Louisiana were heavily mistreated by their masters. This is contrary to the Islamic teachings of "no maltreatment whatsoever, and if you do, the slave can hit you back/you must free your slave".

How dare you judge Chattel Slavery by what Masters in Louisiana did? Instead you should only judge it by the propaganda they wrote about slavery!

Well, what rules are they referring to about treating slaves?

[Kowani]

Frankly fair statement. I admit that as a flaw with my method caused.

It's less a flaw with your method rather than in how you approached this debate. In the future you need to approach debates such as this with an open mind/willingness to learn from your opponents have to say. Be true your beliefs, but never allow them to prevent you from taking an opportunity to learn/broaden your horizon. That's the only way you'll learn/be able to grow both intellectually and as a person.

I like you.

[Diopolis]

Your question has been answered.

Again, I'm not talking about Muslims. I'm asking about Al-Islam. Besides, slaves in Louisiana were heavily mistreated by their masters. This is contrary to the Islamic teachings of "no maltreatment whatsoever, and if you do, the slave can hit you back/you must free your slave".

And slaves owned by islamic masters were frequently mutilated, raped, beaten, and sold to the highest bidder.

[Grenartia]

How dare you judge Chattel Slavery by what Masters in Louisiana did? Instead you should only judge it by the propaganda they wrote about slavery!

Well, what rules are they referring to about treating slaves?

The argument was that slaves in the American South had a better standard of living and quality of life than they would have had if they lived in Africa.

[Genivaria]

This is ironic since the non-religious have a positive correlation with religious knowledge.
https://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/28/u-s ... ge-survey/

Incorrect.

Those surveys, are iffy.

While true to an extent atheists level of knowledge falls into a bad middle ground where some knowledge is worse than none, in this case, their level misleads them more than the less educated faithful. Think of it as a puzzle- It gets more confusing if you have more pieces than a certain amount and makes sense after a lot of study more than most atheists can get.

That said theories such as Pyramids being built after 2000BCE are ridiculous and scientifically inaccurate.

Because random internet person said so.

While true to an extent atheists level of knowledge falls into a bad middle ground where some knowledge is worse than none, in this case, their level misleads them more than the less educated faithful.

I think I just had a stroke trying to understand this nonsense.

Think of it as a puzzle- It gets more confusing if you have more pieces than a certain amount and makes sense after a lot of study more than most atheists can get.

This may be the closest I've ever come to seeing someone unironically defend "Ignorance is Strength."....and that disturbs me.

[Pacomia]

Again, I'm not talking about Muslims. I'm asking about Al-Islam. Besides, slaves in Louisiana were heavily mistreated by their masters. This is contrary to the Islamic teachings of "no maltreatment whatsoever, and if you do, the slave can hit you back/you must free your slave".

And slaves owned by islamic masters were frequently mutilated, raped, beaten, and sold to the highest bidder.

This is still clearly happening in Libya.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

How?

For starters, they constitute part of Islam, which is a lie.

Opinion aside, if you're gonna talk about a religious teaching then you use the religion's book(s). Islamic slavery has these teachings based on what the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah say. Whether you believe in them or not doesn't negate their teachings of what those books say.

Islamic slavery comes from the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah. Idk what point you're making here besides what looks like you saying that the teachings of Islamic slavery are a lie.

I'm saying that I'll trust the caliphs and imams of societies which practiced slavery over a random internet yahoo with a proclivity towards purity tests on what Islamic slavery actually looks and acts like.
I have the same issue with fellow Catholics who attempt the same maneuver to defend slavery.

See above.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Again, I'm not talking about Muslims. I'm asking about Al-Islam. Besides, slaves in Louisiana were heavily mistreated by their masters. This is contrary to the Islamic teachings of "no maltreatment whatsoever, and if you do, the slave can hit you back/you must free your slave".

And slaves owned by islamic masters were frequently mutilated, raped, beaten, and sold to the highest bidder.

Which is effed up and illegal.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Well, what rules are they referring to about treating slaves?

The argument was that slaves in the American South had a better standard of living and quality of life than they would have had if they lived in Africa.

And this has been verified false, no?

[Diopolis]

How dare you judge Chattel Slavery by what Masters in Louisiana did? Instead you should only judge it by the propaganda they wrote about slavery!

Well, what rules are they referring to about treating slaves?

Notably, I'm attempting to compare two sets of rules on slaves saving up money for manumission.
Louisiana slaves could set up trusts to save up money to free themselves with. Slaveowners could not retroactively change the amount, and trusts were protected by law from embezzlement(uncertain of the specifics). This is very similar to islamic rules on slaves saving up money to free themselves.
Now, the fact that Louisiana slaves were often not helped by that law is, by your standards, completely irrelevant.

[Genivaria]

Islamic slavery comes from the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah. Idk what point you're making here besides what looks like you saying that the teachings of Islamic slavery are a lie.

I'm saying that I'll trust the caliphs and imams of societies which practiced slavery over a random internet yahoo with a proclivity towards purity tests on what Islamic slavery actually looks and acts like.
I have the same issue with fellow Catholics who attempt the same maneuver to defend slavery.

Also the Soviets were obviously not REAL Communists because REAL CommunismTM is perfect!

[Grenartia]

And slaves owned by islamic masters were frequently mutilated, raped, beaten, and sold to the highest bidder.

Which is effed up and illegal.

But yet, nothing and no one stopped them.

And the same thing will happen again if you succeed in legalizing ""Islamic"" slavery.

[Genivaria]

The argument was that slaves in the American South had a better standard of living and quality of life than they would have had if they lived in Africa.

And this has been verified false, no?

Relevance? I see you trying to move that goal-post.

[Greater Cesnica]

And slaves owned by islamic masters were frequently mutilated, raped, beaten, and sold to the highest bidder.

Which is effed up and illegal.

What happens if a Muslim slave master kills a non-muslim slave? Both spiritually and physically I mean. Does the slave go to Jannah if they were a good person?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Well, what rules are they referring to about treating slaves?

Notably, I'm attempting to compare two sets of rules on slaves saving up money for manumission.
Louisiana slaves could set up trusts to save up money to free themselves with. Slaveowners could not retroactively change the amount, and trusts were protected by law from embezzlement(uncertain of the specifics). This is very similar to islamic rules on slaves saving up money to free themselves.
Now, the fact that Louisiana slaves were often not helped by that law is, by your standards, completely irrelevant.

Yeah, that's one - oooh I get what you're saying. In that aspect, yes, it is similar to Islamic slavery.

[Greater Cesnica]

I'm saying that I'll trust the caliphs and imams of societies which practiced slavery over a random internet yahoo with a proclivity towards purity tests on what Islamic slavery actually looks and acts like.
I have the same issue with fellow Catholics who attempt the same maneuver to defend slavery.

Also the Soviets were obviously not REAL Communists because REAL CommunismTM is perfect!

It's like these people have never heard of abuse of power.