Should Slavery/Indentured Servitude be brought back?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

>"We"
Lol you say that like people all have these hairbrained thoughts you do

We don't care if everyone else wants to kill us.

No one wants to

We will just make sure that it is so costly that nobody dares to try.

Stop saying "we", your ideas are not that mainstream to warrant a "we".

[EastKekistan]

We don't care if everyone else wants to kill us. We will just make sure that it is so costly that nobody dares to try.

Nobody wants to kill you.

Nah. Most people in Indonesia, Vietnam and Samoa do. Just look at what they do.

[Heloin]

>"We"
Lol you say that like people all have these hairbrained thoughts you do

We don't care if everyone else wants to kill us. We will just make sure that it is so costly that nobody dares to try.

We are Borg. Resistance is futile.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Nobody wants to kill you.

Nah. Most people in Indonesia, Vietnam and Samoa do.

Prove it

[Farnhamia]

Nobody wants to kill you.

Nah. Most people in Indonesia, Vietnam and Samoa do. Just look at what they do.

*** Warned for thread-jacking. *** Not every thread is about NE Asians. Stop trying to make them about that topic.

As for the rest of you, try to control your delight in the sound of your own posts, okay? When someone is obviously hijacking the thread, report them, don't go arguing with them. There are no trophies to be won doing so.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Who here other than the OP actually supports slavery?

[Nea Byzantia]

Who here other than the OP actually supports slavery?

Who will come forward...

[Page]

Who here other than the OP actually supports slavery?

Perhaps someone whose religion says slavery is totally okay?

[Saiwania]

Who here other than the OP actually supports slavery?

I don't support slavery strictly speaking, but I am open minded and curious about its utility or lack thereof as a means of production or economics. If its been tried before and keeps being tried, isn't it the case that somehow- it is still useful to some extent or capacity?

[Purpelia]

Slavery is one of those system that is great just as long as you can make absolutely positively 100% sure that you can't ever be on the loosing side. Which you can't. Not really. Not unless we like find some new species to enslave or build AI for the purpose or chose to only enslave criminals or something. And even than it's somewhat dicey because what goes around comes around. So yea... as fun as it would be to live out the fantasy of holding people as pets I guess I have to pass.

[Waji]

Who here other than the OP actually supports slavery?

I don't support slavery strictly speaking, but I am open minded and curious about its utility or lack thereof as a means of production or economics.

Perhaps you could try it yourself and see how it is like. There's quite a number of countries that would be more than willing to give you a taste of what indentured servitude is like. Or... Uh, just read up on modern day slavery... I'm not sure where you get your ideas from exactly, but slavery sucks man. Makes any minimum wage job at a fast food chain or superstore look like a utopia in comparison.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Who here other than the OP actually supports slavery?

Perhaps someone whose religion says slavery is totally okay?

Christian Reconstructionists perhaps, and other religious fundamentalists like Islamists.

Who here other than the OP actually supports slavery?

Who will come forward...

I hope they do.

Who here other than the OP actually supports slavery?

I don't support slavery strictly speaking, but I am open minded and curious about its utility or lack thereof as a means of production or economics. If its been tried before and keeps being tried, isn't it the case that somehow- it is still useful to some extent or capacity?

Knowing your political views, I think you are trying to find an economic excuse to support it.

[Page]

Slavery is one of those system that is great just as long as you can make absolutely positively 100% sure that you can't ever be on the loosing side. Which you can't. Not really. Not unless we like find some new species to enslave or build AI for the purpose or chose to only enslave criminals or something. And even than it's somewhat dicey because what goes around comes around. So yea... as fun as it would be to live out the fantasy of holding people as pets I guess I have to pass.

Indeed, even one whose conscience is not troubled by the prospect of owning a human being has to consider that a Nat Turner will come for them one day.

[Rea]

I know that this proposal seems monstrous and a huge step backwards in terms of the progression of history, but just hear me out?

Indentured Servitude was a process where someone provided free labor to one or more specific employers for a finite period of time, as determined by a formal contract that was agreed to. It was used for example, as an alternative means by which someone could pay off their debts if they were in debt. This seems like a good deal to me on the face of it. If someone is involuntarily employed, they could maybe make the best of it and come out better by the end of it, if they picked up any skills from the work that was assigned to them. The main downside is that people in that situation weren't paid, but perhaps got free room and board or other accomodations.

Slavery on the other hand, was the buying and selling of humans as property. The owner of a person could do whatever they wished, but usually the point was to exploit free labor from people. One key reason for Slavery going away that is often given, was because it became unprofitable. The cost of ownership for a person, is the need to provide food, water, and shelter for them at minimum. Hence, the cost of having slaves- is like the cost of raising a child or dependent in that respect. Back in 1850, a slave in the American South cost the equivalent of $40,000 in today's money- because it was difficult to capture and transport an African slave across the Atlantic by sail, but today- a slave is rumored to cost only $90 on average globally speaking, despite it now being illegal worldwide.

If we want to try to extract even more productivity for the economy, it isn't enough to have near full employment like is the case for the US economy during Donald Trump's presidency. We need to perhaps try to utilize the under 5% of the population that isn't employed for whatever reason, and the people who aren't employed but aren't looking- except for the truly disabled or retired people. On paper, there are more jobs than there are qualified people to fill those jobs. To get some wealth extracted from an untapped resource such as the normally un-employable people, one way to do this would be yes- unfree labor. Even if people don't like the concept for moral reasons.

One controversial opinion some people have about slavery historically speaking is: "What are Blacks complaining about? They got free room and board in exchange for some free labor." And this is a sentiment I can partially understand, even though it is brash and insensitive. If slavery were more regulated, I think that perhaps it would be the case that certain abuses and excesses could be prevented ahead of time, while still facilitating the use of unpaid labor to bring about cheaper prices for certain products and more work in general getting done.

The homeless as one example, I see as a ripe candidate for possibly benefiting from slavery, in that as slaves- they'd be taken off of the streets but would get free room and board, but in exchange- they provide whatever unpaid labor that is needed. Lots of people could make lots of money if a slave trade was active again. There are huge pools of labor out there that're idle that could in theory be made active if one or more forms of unfree labor were allowed.

If unfree labor in general, good or bad for the economy and society overall? Why or why not?

I've walked around my family's backyard and know that they can't afford to pay a professional landscaper an actual salary, but they can afford to host one or more individuals; and yard help is clearly needed. I do get tempted to think, that with one or more slaves, the unpaid labor they could provide would be a solution my family would clearly benefit from, if it were the case that slavery were legal. Once no more work is needed, slaves can always be sold to someone else who has work that needs doing, or can be formally set free.

If I were desperate enough to have something paid off as a last resort, I'd seriously consider signing away my liberty to get more decent living conditions as someone's slave, as an alternative to living in squalor on the streets. There is always the risk that an owner can be abusive or unreasonable, but if you do the work satisfactorily, it arguably isn't likely. The abuse of slaves might be limited if it were treated akin to how animal cruelty is handled.

I think it is the case that to some extent, slavery has never truly gone away. That it still happens to this day, because in at least some contexts- it does manage to still be profitable. Such as what is alleged to have recently happened within the UK: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/05/worl ... avery.html

As you pointed out, slavery still exists, it's just gone underground.

Conventional ownership of slaves still occurs in parts of North and West Africa, namely Mauritania but also Niger. It also appears to be making a comeback in Libya and I've heard second-hand accounts of this happening even in a moderately developed nation like Morocco with comprehensive anti-slavery laws and a good law enforcement system. The covert ownership of slaves goes on in the Gulf states and is routinely ignored by the governments of those states.

Human trafficking and slavery by any other name - usually of prostitutes forced to work for their trade or sweat shop laborers - is outright prolific in Eastern Europe, Latin America, and Southeast Asia, and is not even that uncommon in parts of Western Europe and the United States.

It'll never go away. People will always trade and sell other people from now until the end of time. Even the Bible says so in Revelations.

[San Lumen]

Who here other than the OP actually supports slavery?

I don't support slavery strictly speaking, but I am open minded and curious about its utility or lack thereof as a means of production or economics. If its been tried before and keeps being tried, isn't it the case that somehow- it is still useful to some extent or capacity?

Your therefore against the 13th, 14th and 15th amendment ?

[Bear Stearns]

If you look at parts of the world where slavery openly exists, you can get a sense of what this would be like.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

I don't support slavery strictly speaking, but I am open minded and curious about its utility or lack thereof as a means of production or economics. If its been tried before and keeps being tried, isn't it the case that somehow- it is still useful to some extent or capacity?

Your therefore against the 13th, 14th and 15th amendment ?

Nazism is against the whole constitution.

[Bear Stearns]

I don't support slavery strictly speaking, but I am open minded and curious about its utility or lack thereof as a means of production or economics. If its been tried before and keeps being tried, isn't it the case that somehow- it is still useful to some extent or capacity?

Your therefore against the 13th, 14th and 15th amendment ?

It's not on the topic of slavery, but the 14th Amendment should have been written to explicitly only be about former slaves, not applied to the children of foreigners born here.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Perhaps someone whose religion says slavery is totally okay?

Christian Reconstructionists perhaps, and other religious fundamentalists like Islamists.

That's not fundamentalism. There's nothing in the Holy Qur'an nor Sunnah that says slavery in itself is Haraam.

[Page]

Christian Reconstructionists perhaps, and other religious fundamentalists like Islamists.

That's not fundamentalism. There's nothing in the Holy Qur'an nor Sunnah that says slavery in itself is Haraam.

Thank you for proving my point.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

That's not fundamentalism. There's nothing in the Holy Qur'an nor Sunnah that says slavery in itself is Haraam.

Thank you for proving my point.

You're welcome

[Make America Grayte Again]

Cheezus, is this even a question? Indentured servitude is bad -- unless you're indentured to me.

I'm a very stable genius, after all.

[Nea Byzantia]

Cheezus, is this even a question? Indentured servitude is bad -- unless you're indentured to me.

I'm a very stable genius, after all.

Cut this out...you're really cheesing me off...

[Xmara]

No. Is this really even a question?

Cheezus, is this even a question? Indentured servitude is bad -- unless you're indentured to me.

I'm a very stable genius, after all.

Cut this out...you're really cheesing me off...

Gouda one...

[Bear Stearns]

On this discussion, it would have been interesting if Southern planters had converted to Islam.