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Who do you intend to vote for in the next Federal General Election?

Liberals
23
18%
Conservatives
34
26%
NDP
39
30%
Bloc Quebecois
8
6%
Greens
7
5%
PPC
7
5%
None of the above (please explain why in the thread)
13
10%
 
Total votes : 131

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Nilokeras
Minister
 
Posts: 3286
Founded: Jul 14, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Nilokeras » Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:49 am

Vikanias wrote:The one thing O’toole did wrong was trying to appeal to left wing voters. He should’ve focused more on stomping out on the PPC which had the highest chance of splitting the Tory vote (well since they are the only right wing party that can oppose the conservatives) and to mention the fact that left wingers have low chances of voting for you instead of conservatives who will vote for you, I admit that O’toole did win a lot of the right leaning Greens though,


I don't think there was any one universal pattern or process we can definitively point to for why O'Toole lost, because we don't have Canada-wide patterns anymore, if we really ever did. If anything this election seems to be heralding the birth of a new regional alignment of parties. The majority of the NDP caucus now, for example, is in British Columbia, where they're also in government and represent the only major anti-pipeline, pro-indigenous sovereignty party. The Tory party is really two separate parties: the PPC-lite Prairie wing west of Ontario and the suburban 'red' or 'purple Tories of Ontario and Atlantic Canada. The Liberals are the holdouts from the old system, spread out across urban centres and attracting votes from progressives and red Tories who dislike the new alignments or who are not sufficiently motivated to vote for change yet, preferring the stability of the old federalist status quo.

It's equally true that O'Toole both failed to appeal enough to moderate red/purple Tories (costing him seats in places like Vancouver) and to appeal to his 'base' (costing him margins in the Prairies and places like rural Ontario). That's because O'Toole is probably more than any party being torn between the new regional alignments. Singh has more or less squared that circle by, de facto, becoming the party of the BC left. The Greens were annihilated because like the Liberals they don't really stand for anything, but unlike the Liberals they don't have the benefit of incumbency or of being intimately tied with the idea of 'Canada' as a country and a federal idea that people can vote for as an aesthetic choice. In the face of other parties like the PPC or even the NDP that offered positions more in line with the political moment and reflecting new regional realites, for better or for worse, they have more or less evaporated. It turns out the Bloc wasn't just a fossil of a previous dead sovereigntism, kept limping along to keep the supply of treats and constitutional favours flowing to Quebec, but a harbinger of an atomizing pressure on previously-federal parties.

The big question of the next few years I think is how this process of regional alignment is going to evolve. Is the centrifugal force of the two Tory parties going to be enough to undo Harper's work? Is Trudeau going to be able to capture enough momentum and good vibes to rekindle the Liberal brand of soft federalism or will regional centrifugal forces continue to leach voters from them too?

There's probably more to say about how this is the lingering long death of Canadian federalism caused by our failure to generate a working constitutional order in the 80s and 90s too - what is this perma-minority and the total collapse of ambition if not the end result of a political class too traumatized by those failures to ever try to fix anything or justify the federal project's existence, after all - but I'm too tired to get into it right now
Last edited by Nilokeras on Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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The Huskar Social Union
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58268
Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:43 am

Well that was an incredibly milquetoast and wasteful election. Like barely anything changed.
Last edited by The Huskar Social Union on Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kubra
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Posts: 16368
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kubra » Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:21 am

Hey it only cost 600 mil to cancel Kerry diotte's incessant junk mail
Real bargain imo
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WayNeacTia
Senator
 
Posts: 4330
Founded: Aug 01, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby WayNeacTia » Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:15 am

Kubra wrote:Hey it only cost 600 mil to cancel Kerry diotte's incessant junk mail
Real bargain imo

I call that a win any day. Really tired of seeing his shit once a month give or take. It really is a shame he can't get into the mayoral race, as now we are going to be stuck with Mike Nickel and his Kenney loving ways. This Blake Desjarlais guy seems not tooo bad though. Had a chance to meet him a few days ago, and he seems genuine. All that aside, what exactly did Trudeau achieve? He was never going to get a majority, and all he did was give a voice to Bernier and those lunatics that think for some reason he is actually sane. It was also nice to see Derek Sloan get his ass handed to him as well.

In the end, all Trudeau did was prove people don't like Doug Ford, and showed Kenney that he is going to lose the next provincial election to Notley. None of this was really any news to anyone. Not really worth it if you ask me.

Dresderstan wrote:This was an election no one wanted and no one got what they wanted, Liberals did not get a majority, Tories did not form government, NDP did not play kingmakers, Bloc did not win Quebec, Greens lost support and the PPC did not win a seat.

The only way the Tories could have formed government is if they won a majority. The NDP will prop up the liberals, and thus Justin still gets the first kick at the can as he is still the PM. Nothing was going to change as O'Toole dragged the Cons too far centre and gave Bernier a real voice. Should be interesting in a couple of years to see what he can make of it. Do the Cons now need to concern themselves with potential vote splitting out west now?
Last edited by WayNeacTia on Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Greater Cesnica
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Greater Cesnica » Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:55 am

What a miserable outcome.
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Luziyca
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Posts: 38036
Founded: Nov 13, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Luziyca » Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:28 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:Well that was an incredibly milquetoast and wasteful election. Like barely anything changed.

Especially my riding which was declared for the Conservatives last night. Was hoping for change, too.
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Nilokeras
Minister
 
Posts: 3286
Founded: Jul 14, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Nilokeras » Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:47 am

Wayneactia wrote:All that aside, what exactly did Trudeau achieve? He was never going to get a majority, and all he did was give a voice to Bernier and those lunatics that think for some reason he is actually sane. It was also nice to see Derek Sloan get his ass handed to him as well.


Future self, meet extremely confident past self:

Wayneactia wrote:All of that is based off tracking polls and nothing more. Those number are heavily skewed. In the end most Canadians fall back on traditional Canadian values and will want a stable government. The Conservatives have made up some ground it isn’t enough. The Bloc have basically been useless for Quebecers and both the Liberals and NDP are going to make massive gains there. Trudeau will get his majority. It won’t be a huge one, but it will be a majority none the less.
Last edited by Nilokeras on Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Czervenika
Minister
 
Posts: 2391
Founded: Jul 06, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Czervenika » Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:24 am

Dakini wrote:Also, holy shit: the Liberal Party took a seat in Calgary!


They have in the past. Fairly recently too. Just not in my Calgary riding. Mine is firmly Con every time so voting yesterday felt quite pointless as I'm not voting right-wing.
(Ignore Factbook for now. It is being redone...eventually.)

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Dayganistan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1601
Founded: May 02, 2016
Father Knows Best State

Postby Dayganistan » Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:30 am

Dakini wrote:Also, holy shit: the Liberal Party took a seat in Calgary!

The seat they took in Calgary isn't surprising. Northwest Calgary is home to a lot of immigrants and racial minorities who might be coming to the realization the Conservatives aren't the best party to represent them. I've heard the Liberal candidate in that riding was very well liked in the community outside of politics too.

Conservatives won in my southern Alberta riding so I can once again complain about my vote being pointless. I live in the third largest city in Alberta with over 100,000 people and it's rapidly growing. We should not be lumped in with a rural riding that's going to shut out the voice of the city. Urban Alberta does not begin and end with Calgary and Edmonton. I'm tired of having the farmers and Mormon towns stifle my voice.
Last edited by Dayganistan on Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Czervenika
Minister
 
Posts: 2391
Founded: Jul 06, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Czervenika » Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:32 am

Dayganistan wrote:
Dakini wrote:Also, holy shit: the Liberal Party took a seat in Calgary!

The seat they took in Calgary isn't surprising. Northwest Calgary is home to a lot of immigrants and racial minorities who might be coming to the realization the Conservatives aren't the best party to represent them. I've heard the Liberal candidate in that riding was very well liked in the community outside of politics too.

Conservatives won in my southern Alberta riding so I can once again complain about my vote being pointless. I live in the third largest city in Alberta with over 100,000 people and it's rapidly growing. We should not be lumped in with a rural riding that's going to shut out the voice of the city. Urban Alberta does not begin and end with Calgary and Edmonton. I'm tired of having the farmers and Mormon towns stifle my voice.


Are you referring to Lethbridge? It honestly should be its own riding.
(Ignore Factbook for now. It is being redone...eventually.)

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Dayganistan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1601
Founded: May 02, 2016
Father Knows Best State

Postby Dayganistan » Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:40 am

Czervenika wrote:Are you referring to Lethbridge? It honestly should be its own riding.

Lethbridge is where I'm referring to yes. I can't say for certain it wouldn't be a blue riding if it split off but I think it would be competitive at the very least. A dedicated MP just for the city of Lethbridge would actually draw attention to issues facing the city like the massive drug crisis.

Our conservative MP does nothing of benefit to the region. According to Wikipedia:

Harder is currently a Member of the Canada-Europe Parliamentary Association, the Canada-Israel Interparliamentary Group, the Canada-United States Inter-Parliamentary Group and the Canadian Group of the Inter-Parliamentary Union. As a member of these groups, Rachael continues to advocate for Canadian interests on the world stage and works to create bi-lateral ties with her international counterparts.

She also chairs the Canada-Artsakh Parliamentary Friendship Group. This group seeks to raise awareness about the plight of the people of Artsakh and advocate for their sovereignty


How does forging ties with Israel help the opiod crisis in Alberta? How does chairing a group dedicated to raising awareness about Karabakh/Artsakh benefit a riding that doesn't even have an Armenian community?
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Czervenika
Minister
 
Posts: 2391
Founded: Jul 06, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Czervenika » Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:42 am

Dayganistan wrote:
Czervenika wrote:Are you referring to Lethbridge? It honestly should be its own riding.

Lethbridge is where I'm referring to yes. I can't say for certain it wouldn't be a blue riding if it split off but I think it would be competitive at the very least. A dedicated MP just for the city of Lethbridge would actually draw attention to issues facing the city like the massive drug crisis.

Our conservative MP does nothing of benefit to the region. According to Wikipedia:

Harder is currently a Member of the Canada-Europe Parliamentary Association, the Canada-Israel Interparliamentary Group, the Canada-United States Inter-Parliamentary Group and the Canadian Group of the Inter-Parliamentary Union. As a member of these groups, Rachael continues to advocate for Canadian interests on the world stage and works to create bi-lateral ties with her international counterparts.

She also chairs the Canada-Artsakh Parliamentary Friendship Group. This group seeks to raise awareness about the plight of the people of Artsakh and advocate for their sovereignty


How does forging ties with Israel help the opiod crisis in Alberta? How does chairing a group dedicated to raising awareness about Karabakh/Artsakh benefit a riding that doesn't even have an Armenian community?


This is Alberta so it's just fashionable to vote Conservative regardless of which sort of causes they're representing. I mean, I'm in Calgary as mentioned in my previous posts and do not vote Conservative. I can't even usually talk about that openly because people would probably think I'm crazy or something.
(Ignore Factbook for now. It is being redone...eventually.)

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Outer Sparta
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14639
Founded: Dec 26, 2014
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Outer Sparta » Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:53 am

Wayneactia wrote:
Kubra wrote:Hey it only cost 600 mil to cancel Kerry diotte's incessant junk mail
Real bargain imo

I call that a win any day. Really tired of seeing his shit once a month give or take. It really is a shame he can't get into the mayoral race, as now we are going to be stuck with Mike Nickel and his Kenney loving ways. This Blake Desjarlais guy seems not tooo bad though. Had a chance to meet him a few days ago, and he seems genuine. All that aside, what exactly did Trudeau achieve? He was never going to get a majority, and all he did was give a voice to Bernier and those lunatics that think for some reason he is actually sane. It was also nice to see Derek Sloan get his ass handed to him as well.

In the end, all Trudeau did was prove people don't like Doug Ford, and showed Kenney that he is going to lose the next provincial election to Notley. None of this was really any news to anyone. Not really worth it if you ask me.

Dresderstan wrote:This was an election no one wanted and no one got what they wanted, Liberals did not get a majority, Tories did not form government, NDP did not play kingmakers, Bloc did not win Quebec, Greens lost support and the PPC did not win a seat.

The only way the Tories could have formed government is if they won a majority. The NDP will prop up the liberals, and thus Justin still gets the first kick at the can as he is still the PM. Nothing was going to change as O'Toole dragged the Cons too far centre and gave Bernier a real voice. Should be interesting in a couple of years to see what he can make of it. Do the Cons now need to concern themselves with potential vote splitting out west now?

If O'Toole won the election I wonder if he would most likely base his pandemic handling like Jason Kenney. He did accept an endorsement from him and also cooked at a barbecue event.
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WayNeacTia
Senator
 
Posts: 4330
Founded: Aug 01, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby WayNeacTia » Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:38 am

Outer Sparta wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:I call that a win any day. Really tired of seeing his shit once a month give or take. It really is a shame he can't get into the mayoral race, as now we are going to be stuck with Mike Nickel and his Kenney loving ways. This Blake Desjarlais guy seems not tooo bad though. Had a chance to meet him a few days ago, and he seems genuine. All that aside, what exactly did Trudeau achieve? He was never going to get a majority, and all he did was give a voice to Bernier and those lunatics that think for some reason he is actually sane. It was also nice to see Derek Sloan get his ass handed to him as well.

In the end, all Trudeau did was prove people don't like Doug Ford, and showed Kenney that he is going to lose the next provincial election to Notley. None of this was really any news to anyone. Not really worth it if you ask me.


The only way the Tories could have formed government is if they won a majority. The NDP will prop up the liberals, and thus Justin still gets the first kick at the can as he is still the PM. Nothing was going to change as O'Toole dragged the Cons too far centre and gave Bernier a real voice. Should be interesting in a couple of years to see what he can make of it. Do the Cons now need to concern themselves with potential vote splitting out west now?

If O'Toole won the election I wonder if he would most likely base his pandemic handling like Jason Kenney. He did accept an endorsement from him and also cooked at a barbecue event.

Thank Christ he didn't win. With the way he dragged the Cons to the centre, I don't think he will even survive a leadership review.
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RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac

wait

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Luziyca
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38036
Founded: Nov 13, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Luziyca » Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:46 am

Outer Sparta wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:I call that a win any day. Really tired of seeing his shit once a month give or take. It really is a shame he can't get into the mayoral race, as now we are going to be stuck with Mike Nickel and his Kenney loving ways. This Blake Desjarlais guy seems not tooo bad though. Had a chance to meet him a few days ago, and he seems genuine. All that aside, what exactly did Trudeau achieve? He was never going to get a majority, and all he did was give a voice to Bernier and those lunatics that think for some reason he is actually sane. It was also nice to see Derek Sloan get his ass handed to him as well.

In the end, all Trudeau did was prove people don't like Doug Ford, and showed Kenney that he is going to lose the next provincial election to Notley. None of this was really any news to anyone. Not really worth it if you ask me.


The only way the Tories could have formed government is if they won a majority. The NDP will prop up the liberals, and thus Justin still gets the first kick at the can as he is still the PM. Nothing was going to change as O'Toole dragged the Cons too far centre and gave Bernier a real voice. Should be interesting in a couple of years to see what he can make of it. Do the Cons now need to concern themselves with potential vote splitting out west now?

If O'Toole won the election I wonder if he would most likely base his pandemic handling like Jason Kenney. He did accept an endorsement from him and also cooked at a barbecue event.

I think he'd, at best, take the Boris Johnson approach to COVID. While we did dodge a bullet, what with Trudeau being in charge throughout the pandemic instead of Scheer, having a minority government instead of a majority government was much better in ensuring that the people got what they needed.
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Dakini
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23085
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Dakini » Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:57 am

Czervenika wrote:
Dakini wrote:Also, holy shit: the Liberal Party took a seat in Calgary!


They have in the past. Fairly recently too. Just not in my Calgary riding. Mine is firmly Con every time so voting yesterday felt quite pointless as I'm not voting right-wing.

Ah, fair enough. I haven't looked at the seat allocations a lot recently and the last times I've checked (which is years ago), only Edmonton had a few non-Conservative ridings (and those went NDP, not Liberal). It's interesting to see the Liberals start to break through a bit.

Dayganistan wrote:
Dakini wrote:Also, holy shit: the Liberal Party took a seat in Calgary!

The seat they took in Calgary isn't surprising. Northwest Calgary is home to a lot of immigrants and racial minorities who might be coming to the realization the Conservatives aren't the best party to represent them. I've heard the Liberal candidate in that riding was very well liked in the community outside of politics too.

Conservatives won in my southern Alberta riding so I can once again complain about my vote being pointless. I live in the third largest city in Alberta with over 100,000 people and it's rapidly growing. We should not be lumped in with a rural riding that's going to shut out the voice of the city. Urban Alberta does not begin and end with Calgary and Edmonton. I'm tired of having the farmers and Mormon towns stifle my voice.

There was one election when I was living in Hamilton, but it was the part of Hamilton that is lumped in with Ancaster and Dundas and all of that so our riding went Conservative (my MP became a guy who believed that women should walk three steps behind women and who distributed Promisekeeper shit on his time off) so I know the feeling.

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Czervenika
Minister
 
Posts: 2391
Founded: Jul 06, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Czervenika » Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:34 pm

Dakini wrote:Ah, fair enough. I haven't looked at the seat allocations a lot recently and the last times I've checked (which is years ago), only Edmonton had a few non-Conservative ridings (and those went NDP, not Liberal). It's interesting to see the Liberals start to break through a bit.


During Trudeau's first term Kent Hehr was elected. He was in a Calgary riding. Calgary-Centre iirc.
(Ignore Factbook for now. It is being redone...eventually.)

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No Names Left Darn It
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 5
Founded: Sep 21, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby No Names Left Darn It » Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:53 pm

What a waste of time and money that was.

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WayNeacTia
Senator
 
Posts: 4330
Founded: Aug 01, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby WayNeacTia » Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:31 pm

Kenney just threw his health minister Tyler Shandro under the bus today. Something tells me he got a call from the conservative caucus on how his ineptitude cost the federal conservatives the election.

The liberals also grabbed a seat in Edmonton Centre. Good inroads.
Last edited by WayNeacTia on Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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wait

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GuessTheAltAccount
Minister
 
Posts: 2026
Founded: Apr 27, 2021
Democratic Socialists

Postby GuessTheAltAccount » Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:41 pm

2006: Liberals destroy their own credibility with the sponsorship scandal, and subsequent train wreck of a campaign.

2011: NDP moves ahead of the Liberals.

2015: "Eh, let's give the Grits another shot. Maybe Justin will be different!"

2019: "Well, shit."

2021: "We can't go back to the NDP now! What if the most centrist-sounding Tory we've seen in decades gets in instead of the corporatist who pretends not to be?"

When will people learn?
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Dresderstan
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Founded: Jan 18, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Dresderstan » Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:52 pm

Well at least we know one thing, despite those long lines at some polling stations turnout happened to be down compared to last time... much more down, less than 10% down from last time in 2019, and there are STILL some seats that are too close to call.

And now the premiers want unity yet more autonomy in the results of this "election"
Last edited by Dresderstan on Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The United Colonies of Earth
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9727
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby The United Colonies of Earth » Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:02 pm

GuessTheAltAccount wrote:2006: Liberals destroy their own credibility with the sponsorship scandal, and subsequent train wreck of a campaign.

2011: NDP moves ahead of the Liberals.

2015: "Eh, let's give the Grits another shot. Maybe Justin will be different!"

2019: "Well, shit."

2021: "We can't go back to the NDP now! What if the most centrist-sounding Tory we've seen in decades gets in instead of the corporatist who pretends not to be?"

When will people learn?

When they're dead.
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Nilokeras
Minister
 
Posts: 3286
Founded: Jul 14, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Nilokeras » Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:19 pm

Dresderstan wrote:Well at least we know one thing, despite those long lines at some polling stations turnout happened to be down compared to last time... much more down, less than 10% down from last time in 2019, and there are STILL some seats that are too close to call.

And now the premiers want unity yet more autonomy in the results of this "election"


As I argued above, we can see the erosion of the Canadian federal structure in action here - increasing irritation from all quarters of the political spectrum at a party hegemony whose vision of federalism is inaction and aesthetic posturing at a unifying Canadian nationalism rather than fixing the genuine problems facing provincial-federal relations. And which is steadily garnering less and less interest from the voting public, who rightly have diagnosed that their votes do not matter and have tuned out accordingly.
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Vikanias
Minister
 
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Founded: May 01, 2020
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Vikanias » Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:45 pm

The whole Canadian federal system is a sham really, Quebec gets 76 seats based off its whining and threats to leave while all of the Maritime, all the territories and Alberta all have LESS COMBINED SEATS than Quebec. Some say it’s a population thing, but Alberta gives lots of power to Canada , the maritimes give Canada lots of fish besides BC, and the Territories at least deserve something. Hell the Territories only have 3 seats, I wouldn’t be surprised if they had none.
“As he died to make man holy, let us die to make man free.”

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WayNeacTia
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Posts: 4330
Founded: Aug 01, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby WayNeacTia » Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:23 pm

Vikanias wrote:The whole Canadian federal system is a sham really, Quebec gets 76 seats based off its whining and threats to leave while all of the Maritime, all the territories and Alberta all have LESS COMBINED SEATS than Quebec. Some say it’s a population thing, but Alberta gives lots of power to Canada , the maritimes give Canada lots of fish besides BC, and the Territories at least deserve something. Hell the Territories only have 3 seats, I wouldn’t be surprised if they had none.

I live in Alberta and I can tell you at the moment we are contributing sweet fuck all other than whining and creating more and more divisiveness. Saskatchewan is no better, but at least they have a somewhat diversified economy that relies on more than black gold. The federal government needs to step the fuck up and tell the Premiers we are Canada and not 13 different countries that think they are united...... >:(
Sarcasm dispensed moderately.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac

wait

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