Canadian Politics

[Nilokeras]

Huh.

Canada is still part of the British Empire. I think its know a commonwealth. They largely govern their own affairs now though.

The Canadian constitution was patriated in 1982 - we're a fully sovereign country whose head of state is Elizabeth II in her role as Queen of Canada.

[Shrillland]

Oh, they can exist, it's just that nobody wants them.

Yeah, but they are literally never formed. I am always baffled why they don't, because it would be the perfect solution to the current government. But alas, no, it seems like we're in a perpetual state of minority and majority governments. Probably another reason people don't want PR, because then it would for party leaders to (oh my god) co-operate! Oh dear, we mustn't allow that!

It's all because of the scaremongering the Tories launched in 2008 after they prorogued Parliament to stop the Grand Coalition of the Left from forming.

[Nilokeras]

Yeah, but they are literally never formed. I am always baffled why they don't, because it would be the perfect solution to the current government. But alas, no, it seems like we're in a perpetual state of minority and majority governments. Probably another reason people don't want PR, because then it would for party leaders to (oh my god) co-operate! Oh dear, we mustn't allow that!

It's all because of the scaremongering the Tories launched in 2008 after they prorogued Parliament to stop the Grand Coalition of the Left from forming.

I disagree largely because I think the degree to which most people actually pay attention to politics and remember an arcane political crisis in 2008 is a bit inflated when compared to us nerds. If I was to put my finger on anything I think it's the degree to which Canadians absorb American political news and view their own politics from an Americanized lens where coalition governance is beyond the pale.

[Shrillland]

It's all because of the scaremongering the Tories launched in 2008 after they prorogued Parliament to stop the Grand Coalition of the Left from forming.

I disagree largely because I think the degree to which most people actually pay attention to politics and remember an arcane political crisis in 2008 is a bit inflated when compared to us nerds. If I was to put my finger on anything I think it's the degree to which Canadians absorb American political news and view their own politics from an Americanized lens where coalition governance is beyond the pale.

That's a real shame, to be honest. You'd think most Canadians would see our political news and understand that it throws the virtues of civil discourse and cooperation into sharp relief.

[Kubra]

It's all because of the scaremongering the Tories launched in 2008 after they prorogued Parliament to stop the Grand Coalition of the Left from forming.

I disagree largely because I think the degree to which most people actually pay attention to politics and remember an arcane political crisis in 2008 is a bit inflated when compared to us nerds. If I was to put my finger on anything I think it's the degree to which Canadians absorb American political news and view their own politics from an Americanized lens where coalition governance is beyond the pale.

*americanised. Please return your passport to the nearest representative of the crown and be prepared to receive her majesties justice.

[Nilokeras]

I disagree largely because I think the degree to which most people actually pay attention to politics and remember an arcane political crisis in 2008 is a bit inflated when compared to us nerds. If I was to put my finger on anything I think it's the degree to which Canadians absorb American political news and view their own politics from an Americanized lens where coalition governance is beyond the pale.

*americanised. Please return your passport to the nearest representative of the crown and be prepared to receive her majesties justice.

But I was doing meta-humour on the way Canada has been slowly absorbed into the great southern blob! Noooooo *is dragged away by Mounties*

[Kubra]

*americanised. Please return your passport to the nearest representative of the crown and be prepared to receive her majesties justice.

But I was doing meta-humour on the way Canada has been slowly absorbed into the great southern blob! Noooooo *is dragged away by Mounties*

You will soon be put into a dark room and beaten until you can say what the proper size of a pint is and how to file a measurement-related complaint with Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada, ou Innovation, Sciences et Développement économique Canada.

[Nilokeras]

I disagree largely because I think the degree to which most people actually pay attention to politics and remember an arcane political crisis in 2008 is a bit inflated when compared to us nerds. If I was to put my finger on anything I think it's the degree to which Canadians absorb American political news and view their own politics from an Americanized lens where coalition governance is beyond the pale.

That's a real shame, to be honest. You'd think most Canadians would see our political news and understand that it throws the virtues of civil discourse and cooperation into sharp relief.

That's the rub there though - I really don't think many people do see our political news. You can see this fact manifesting all over Canadian politics, from the way in which the Tories cast every scandal the Liberals stumble into as a genuine earth shattering crisis to the way the Liberals can win victories without doing very much: a calculation on behalf of everyone that very little of politics will make a lasting dent in the popular consciousness.

[Anatoliyanskiy]

That's a real shame, to be honest. You'd think most Canadians would see our political news and understand that it throws the virtues of civil discourse and cooperation into sharp relief.

That's the rub there though - I really don't think many people do see our political news. You can see this fact manifesting all over Canadian politics, from the way in which the Tories cast every scandal the Liberals stumble into as a genuine earth shattering crisis to the way the Liberals can win victories without doing very much: a calculation on behalf of everyone that very little of politics will make a lasting dent in the popular consciousness.

This made me realize that we need a new Jack Layton.

[Kubra]

That's a real shame, to be honest. You'd think most Canadians would see our political news and understand that it throws the virtues of civil discourse and cooperation into sharp relief.

That's the rub there though - I really don't think many people do see our political news. You can see this fact manifesting all over Canadian politics, from the way in which the Tories cast every scandal the Liberals stumble into as a genuine earth shattering crisis to the way the Liberals can win victories without doing very much: a calculation on behalf of everyone that very little of politics will make a lasting dent in the popular consciousness.

liberals winning victories without doing very much? Weeeeeeell I really can't think of many things more Canadian than that.

[Shrillland]

That's a real shame, to be honest. You'd think most Canadians would see our political news and understand that it throws the virtues of civil discourse and cooperation into sharp relief.

That's the rub there though - I really don't think many people do see our political news. You can see this fact manifesting all over Canadian politics, from the way in which the Tories cast every scandal the Liberals stumble into as a genuine earth shattering crisis to the way the Liberals can win victories without doing very much: a calculation on behalf of everyone that very little of politics will make a lasting dent in the popular consciousness.

When I say "our", I mean the US, I'm from next door myself. I meant you guys would look at us and see that we're a nation of ignorant agitated savages compared to you guys even with your problems with First Nations relations.

[Shrillland]

That's the rub there though - I really don't think many people do see our political news. You can see this fact manifesting all over Canadian politics, from the way in which the Tories cast every scandal the Liberals stumble into as a genuine earth shattering crisis to the way the Liberals can win victories without doing very much: a calculation on behalf of everyone that very little of politics will make a lasting dent in the popular consciousness.

This made me realize that we need a new Jack Layton.

Those only come along once in a very great while. Canada was absolutely shafted when he died before he could become PM, and I sincerely believe he would've beaten Trudeau in '15 to at least a minority government.

[San Lumen]

This made me realize that we need a new Jack Layton.

Those only come along once in a very great while. Canada was absolutely shafted when he died before he could become PM, and I sincerely believe he would've beaten Trudeau in '15 to at least a minority government.

Why does cancer always have to take such amazing people?

[Anatoliyanskiy]

This made me realize that we need a new Jack Layton.

Those only come along once in a very great while. Canada was absolutely shafted when he died before he could become PM, and I sincerely believe he would've beaten Trudeau in '15 to at least a minority government.

It's such a shame. And then we get centrist Mulcair who runs the party into the ground. Seriously, it had to take him right when he was Leader of Opposition. He would've been the death of the liberals, that's for sure. I think the main reason the NDP has had trouble gaining traction is because they can't find someone else like him. I mean Singh's great and all, I personally like him and I find it pretty sad that it's because mainly of his religion the party hasn't benefited.

[Kubra]

Those only come along once in a very great while. Canada was absolutely shafted when he died before he could become PM, and I sincerely believe he would've beaten Trudeau in '15 to at least a minority government.

It's such a shame. And then we get centrist Mulcair who runs the party into the ground. Seriously, it had to take him right when he was Leader of Opposition. He would've been the death of the liberals, that's for sure. I think the main reason the NDP has had trouble gaining traction is because they can't find someone else like him. I mean Singh's great and all, I personally like him and I find it pretty sad that it's because mainly of his religion the party hasn't benefited.

Singh got made leader precisely on centrism and sleek marketing, tho.

[Anatoliyanskiy]

It's such a shame. And then we get centrist Mulcair who runs the party into the ground. Seriously, it had to take him right when he was Leader of Opposition. He would've been the death of the liberals, that's for sure. I think the main reason the NDP has had trouble gaining traction is because they can't find someone else like him. I mean Singh's great and all, I personally like him and I find it pretty sad that it's because mainly of his religion the party hasn't benefited.

Singh got made leader precisely on centrism and sleek marketing, tho.

No, take a look at his policies and then come back.

[Nilokeras]

That's the rub there though - I really don't think many people do see our political news. You can see this fact manifesting all over Canadian politics, from the way in which the Tories cast every scandal the Liberals stumble into as a genuine earth shattering crisis to the way the Liberals can win victories without doing very much: a calculation on behalf of everyone that very little of politics will make a lasting dent in the popular consciousness.

When I say "our", I mean the US, I'm from next door myself. I meant you guys would look at us and see that we're a nation of ignorant agitated savages compared to you guys even with your problems with First Nations relations.

Oh we definitely do that. People watch the circus that is American politics and think 'wow, isn't it great that our politics is so boring and competent', then switch the channel when the Canadian politics segment comes on.

It's such a shame. And then we get centrist Mulcair who runs the party into the ground. Seriously, it had to take him right when he was Leader of Opposition. He would've been the death of the liberals, that's for sure. I think the main reason the NDP has had trouble gaining traction is because they can't find someone else like him. I mean Singh's great and all, I personally like him and I find it pretty sad that it's because mainly of his religion the party hasn't benefited.

Singh got made leader precisely on centrism and sleek marketing, tho.

And to that end he's Jack Layton's perfect successor - Layton himself, it should be remembered in light of his postmortem deification, was not a part of the NDP's leftist contingent.

[Kubra]

Singh got made leader precisely on centrism and sleek marketing, tho.

No, take a look at his policies and then come back.

Looked at politics, am unclear over instructions

[Transjlwanja]

Oh, they can exist, it's just that nobody wants them.

Yeah, but they are literally never formed. I am always baffled why they don't, because it would be the perfect solution to the current government. But alas, no, it seems like we're in a perpetual state of minority and majority governments. Probably another reason people don't want PR, because then it would for party leaders to (oh my god) co-operate! Oh dear, we mustn't allow that!

PR empowers the fringe right as much as the fringe left. Do you want a Conservative/PP coalition?

[Anatoliyanskiy]

Yeah, but they are literally never formed. I am always baffled why they don't, because it would be the perfect solution to the current government. But alas, no, it seems like we're in a perpetual state of minority and majority governments. Probably another reason people don't want PR, because then it would for party leaders to (oh my god) co-operate! Oh dear, we mustn't allow that!

PR empowers the fringe right as much as the fringe left. Do you want a Conservative/PP coalition?

No, but it's not likely that would happen anyhow because they aren't necessarily on good terms with each other. A good thing with PR is that with Canada at least, the Conservatives would have to get 50% of the vote to get government.

[Shrillland]

PR empowers the fringe right as much as the fringe left. Do you want a Conservative/PP coalition?

No, but it's not likely that would happen anyhow because they aren't necessarily on good terms with each other. A good thing with PR is that with Canada at least, the Conservatives would have to get 50% of the vote to get government.

35-40%, more like, considering an ideal federal PR system would have provincial multi-member constituencies.

[Nilokeras]

Yeah, but they are literally never formed. I am always baffled why they don't, because it would be the perfect solution to the current government. But alas, no, it seems like we're in a perpetual state of minority and majority governments. Probably another reason people don't want PR, because then it would for party leaders to (oh my god) co-operate! Oh dear, we mustn't allow that!

PR empowers the fringe right as much as the fringe left. Do you want a Conservative/PP coalition?

They're already in coalition. It's called the Conservative Party. What is Derek Sloan if not a PP'er operating under the Tory banner?

[Anatoliyanskiy]

No, but it's not likely that would happen anyhow because they aren't necessarily on good terms with each other. A good thing with PR is that with Canada at least, the Conservatives would have to get 50% of the vote to get government.

35-40%, more like, considering an ideal federal PR system would have provincial multi-member constituencies.

Ah yes, that brings me back to a project that I did a little bit ago. What would the seatings be like if PR was used in Provincial constituencies? if this is done, there would be 11 total constituencies (because the territories are combined to be 1 with 3 members). So, here's what the seatings would be like, by constituency:

British Columbia: Conservatives, 15 seats. NDP, 11 seats. Liberals, 11 seats. Greens, 5 seats.
Alberta: Conservatives, 25 seats. Liberals, 5 seats. NDP, 4 seats.
Saskatchewan: Conservatives, 11 seats. NDP, 3 seats. Liberals, 1 seat.
Manitoba: Conservatives, 7 seats. Liberals, 4 seats. NDP, 3 seats.
Territories: Liberals, 1 seat. Conservatives, 1 seat. NDP, 1 seat.
Ontario: Liberals, 56 seats. Conservatives, 46 seats. NDP, 23 seats.
Quebec: Liberals: 33 seats. Bloc Quebecois, 32 seats (no change oddly enough). NDP, 12 seats. Conservatives, 2 seats.
New Brunswick: Liberals, 4 seats. Conservatives, 3 seats. Greens, 2 seats. NDP, 1 seat.
Nova Scotia: Liberals, 5 seats. Conservatives, 2 seats. NDP, 2 seats. Greens, 1 seat.
Prince Edward Island: Liberals, 2 seats. Conservatives, 1 seat. Greens, 1 seat.
Newfoundland and Labrador: Liberals, 3 seats. Conservatives, 2 seats. NDP, 2 seats.

And there you have it. Just take it into account that I didn't include the People's Party because I had to add the votes each party got in each riding in each province, and they were just too obsolete to try and do. And I didn't include the Greens in Ontario, but they would probably win a seat there. So this is a rough estimate. But, in the end, the Liberals would have around 125 seats, the Conservatives would have around 115 seats, the NDP would have around 62 seats and the Greens would have around 9 seats, but this would probably be like 12 if we were to factor in Ontario. And the People's Party would also probably get some seats too.

[Transjlwanja]

35-40%, more like, considering an ideal federal PR system would have provincial multi-member constituencies.

Ah yes, that brings me back to a project that I did a little bit ago. What would the seatings be like if PR was used in Provincial constituencies? if this is done, there would be 11 total constituencies (because the territories are combined to be 1 with 3 members). So, here's what the seatings would be like, by constituency:

British Columbia: Conservatives, 15 seats. NDP, 11 seats. Liberals, 11 seats. Greens, 5 seats.
Alberta: Conservatives, 25 seats. Liberals, 5 seats. NDP, 4 seats.
Saskatchewan: Conservatives, 11 seats. NDP, 3 seats. Liberals, 1 seat.
Manitoba: Conservatives, 7 seats. Liberals, 4 seats. NDP, 3 seats.
Territories: Liberals, 1 seat. Conservatives, 1 seat. NDP, 1 seat.
Ontario: Liberals, 56 seats. Conservatives, 46 seats. NDP, 23 seats.
Quebec: Liberals: 33 seats. Bloc Quebecois, 32 seats (no change oddly enough). NDP, 12 seats. Conservatives, 2 seats.
New Brunswick: Liberals, 4 seats. Conservatives, 3 seats. Greens, 2 seats. NDP, 1 seat.
Nova Scotia: Liberals, 5 seats. Conservatives, 2 seats. NDP, 2 seats. Greens, 1 seat.
Prince Edward Island: Liberals, 2 seats. Conservatives, 1 seat. Greens, 1 seat.
Newfoundland and Labrador: Liberals, 3 seats. Conservatives, 2 seats. NDP, 2 seats.

And there you have it. Just take it into account that I didn't include the People's Party because I had to add the votes each party got in each riding in each province, and they were just too obsolete to try and do. And I didn't include the Greens in Ontario, but they would probably win a seat there. So this is a rough estimate. But, in the end, the Liberals would have around 125 seats, the Conservatives would have around 115 seats, the NDP would have around 62 seats and the Greens would have around 9 seats, but this would probably be like 12 if we were to factor in Ontario. And the People's Party would also probably get some seats too.

Where it has existed for long enough, PR has tended to produce & strengthen more small, radical parties. Here it would likely cause the Libs to lose seats to the NDP & Greens, & the Cons to lose some to the PP (& probably at least one other hard right party that would form). Many legislatures w/ PR have 10 or more parties, w/ frequent or even constant coalition gov.

[Shrillland]

Ah yes, that brings me back to a project that I did a little bit ago. What would the seatings be like if PR was used in Provincial constituencies? if this is done, there would be 11 total constituencies (because the territories are combined to be 1 with 3 members). So, here's what the seatings would be like, by constituency:

British Columbia: Conservatives, 15 seats. NDP, 11 seats. Liberals, 11 seats. Greens, 5 seats.
Alberta: Conservatives, 25 seats. Liberals, 5 seats. NDP, 4 seats.
Saskatchewan: Conservatives, 11 seats. NDP, 3 seats. Liberals, 1 seat.
Manitoba: Conservatives, 7 seats. Liberals, 4 seats. NDP, 3 seats.
Territories: Liberals, 1 seat. Conservatives, 1 seat. NDP, 1 seat.
Ontario: Liberals, 56 seats. Conservatives, 46 seats. NDP, 23 seats.
Quebec: Liberals: 33 seats. Bloc Quebecois, 32 seats (no change oddly enough). NDP, 12 seats. Conservatives, 2 seats.
New Brunswick: Liberals, 4 seats. Conservatives, 3 seats. Greens, 2 seats. NDP, 1 seat.
Nova Scotia: Liberals, 5 seats. Conservatives, 2 seats. NDP, 2 seats. Greens, 1 seat.
Prince Edward Island: Liberals, 2 seats. Conservatives, 1 seat. Greens, 1 seat.
Newfoundland and Labrador: Liberals, 3 seats. Conservatives, 2 seats. NDP, 2 seats.

And there you have it. Just take it into account that I didn't include the People's Party because I had to add the votes each party got in each riding in each province, and they were just too obsolete to try and do. And I didn't include the Greens in Ontario, but they would probably win a seat there. So this is a rough estimate. But, in the end, the Liberals would have around 125 seats, the Conservatives would have around 115 seats, the NDP would have around 62 seats and the Greens would have around 9 seats, but this would probably be like 12 if we were to factor in Ontario. And the People's Party would also probably get some seats too.

Where it has existed for long enough, PR has tended to produce & strengthen more small, radical parties. Here it would likely cause the Libs to lose seats to the NDP & Greens, & the Cons to lose some to the PP (& probably at least one other hard right party that would form). Many legislatures w/ PR have 10 or more parties, w/ frequent or even constant coalition gov.

That's fine. It means people will work together instead of lord power over everyone else. And where would you rather have the radicals anyway, in their own little corners or in one of the big parties trying to hijack it?