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by Jedi Council » Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:26 pm
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Jedi Council is in fact, the big gay... The lord of all gays.
by Outer Sparta » Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:31 pm
Jedi Council wrote:Surprise Surprise; Erin O'Toole removes platform pledge to end fossil fuel subsidies one day after publishing.
And people say that only Quebec gets pandered to.
by Kazakah » Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:48 pm
Jedi Council wrote:Outer Sparta wrote:I haven't been keeping up with Canadian politics much, so I wouldn't really know the front runners and stuff. What would MacKay offer to the table?
MacKay is the last leader of the Progressive Conservative (PC) Party. The PC's used to be the main right wing Party in Canada until they imploded in 93' whereby the Reform Party replaced them. MacKay ended up merging the PC's with the Canadian Alliance, which was Reform in disguise, and then served as a senior cabinet Minister (Foreign Affairs, Defence, Justice) in the Harper government.
Because of his ties to the old PC's, MacKay is generally viewed as a moderate, as the PC's were largely centre to centre right on most issues. Some have even gone so far as to call him a Red Tory, which I would argue is too far. His pitch for the leadership generally rests on his experience, the fact he is relatively telegenic (He won sexiest MP several years in a row) and his reputation as a centrist. I have not heard much in the way of actual policy, but his political instincts appear to be a little rusty after four years on the sidelines; his campaign has been less than stellar so far.
by Major-Tom » Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:49 pm
Kazakah wrote:Jedi Council wrote:MacKay is the last leader of the Progressive Conservative (PC) Party. The PC's used to be the main right wing Party in Canada until they imploded in 93' whereby the Reform Party replaced them. MacKay ended up merging the PC's with the Canadian Alliance, which was Reform in disguise, and then served as a senior cabinet Minister (Foreign Affairs, Defence, Justice) in the Harper government.
Because of his ties to the old PC's, MacKay is generally viewed as a moderate, as the PC's were largely centre to centre right on most issues. Some have even gone so far as to call him a Red Tory, which I would argue is too far. His pitch for the leadership generally rests on his experience, the fact he is relatively telegenic (He won sexiest MP several years in a row) and his reputation as a centrist. I have not heard much in the way of actual policy, but his political instincts appear to be a little rusty after four years on the sidelines; his campaign has been less than stellar so far.
MacKay's definitely going to win. He's the classic Canadian politician.
- Son of a father who was in politics
- Mildly handome (at least in their youth)
- Long career in politics
- Not too far to one side of the spectrum
- Tiny controversies that don't compare to American ones
- English background
Surprisingly he isn't from Ontario or Quebec
by Jedi Council » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:38 pm
Major-Tom wrote:Kazakah wrote:
MacKay's definitely going to win. He's the classic Canadian politician.
- Son of a father who was in politics
- Mildly handome (at least in their youth)
- Long career in politics
- Not too far to one side of the spectrum
- Tiny controversies that don't compare to American ones
- English background
Surprisingly he isn't from Ontario or Quebec
He might win a leadership contest, though everything about him thus far indicates he might have an uphill battle winning a federal election.
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Jedi Council is in fact, the big gay... The lord of all gays.
by Outer Sparta » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:28 pm
by Jedi Council » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:28 pm
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Jedi Council is in fact, the big gay... The lord of all gays.
by Major-Tom » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:29 pm
by Jedi Council » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:32 pm
Major-Tom wrote:Outer Sparta wrote:They got second place in the 2011 election after the Liberals got squashed.
Sure, but lest the NDP can find another Jack Layton, they're going to struggle to really have another breakout moment. 2011's NDP surge can really be attributed to Quebec, a province I don't see swinging so wildly in the NDP's favor again.
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Jedi Council is in fact, the big gay... The lord of all gays.
by Outer Sparta » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:33 pm
Major-Tom wrote:Outer Sparta wrote:They got second place in the 2011 election after the Liberals got squashed.
Sure, but lest the NDP can find another Jack Layton, they're going to struggle to really have another breakout moment. 2011's NDP surge can really be attributed to Quebec, a province I don't see swinging so wildly in the NDP's favor again.
by Major-Tom » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:36 pm
Jedi Council wrote:Major-Tom wrote:
Sure, but lest the NDP can find another Jack Layton, they're going to struggle to really have another breakout moment. 2011's NDP surge can really be attributed to Quebec, a province I don't see swinging so wildly in the NDP's favor again.
The NDP is going to struggle in Quebec as long as Singh is leader; that province in particular has had a long running debate around religious symbols.
by Luziyca » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:58 pm
Outer Sparta wrote:Jedi Council wrote:Surprise Surprise; Erin O'Toole removes platform pledge to end fossil fuel subsidies one day after publishing.
And people say that only Quebec gets pandered to.
Oh geez pandering to Alberta hmm?
by Kazakah » Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:01 am
Major-Tom wrote:Outer Sparta wrote:They got second place in the 2011 election after the Liberals got squashed.
Sure, but lest the NDP can find another Jack Layton, they're going to struggle to really have another breakout moment. 2011's NDP surge can really be attributed to Quebec, a province I don't see swinging so wildly in the NDP's favor again.
by Dresderstan » Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:17 am
Kazakah wrote:Major-Tom wrote:
Sure, but lest the NDP can find another Jack Layton, they're going to struggle to really have another breakout moment. 2011's NDP surge can really be attributed to Quebec, a province I don't see swinging so wildly in the NDP's favor again.
I'd say that Quebec is the reason they lost in 2019. But, you're right they'll need a Jack Layton type if the want to win federally.
If I'm being honest though all the opposition parties are gonna need to get their act together if they want to win against the Liberals.
by San Lumen » Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:18 am
Dresderstan wrote:Kazakah wrote:I'd say that Quebec is the reason they lost in 2019. But, you're right they'll need a Jack Layton type if the want to win federally.
If I'm being honest though all the opposition parties are gonna need to get their act together if they want to win against the Liberals.
That's why I have this sneaking suspicion that either later this year or early next year Trudeau might call a snap election. He knows he can't risk one now due to the pandemic, but if and when this is over he would be inclined to do so because he sees a divided opposition and an increased Liberal support due to his handling of the crisis. It all depends on A) the economy B) the new Tory leader C) how weak the NDP is with/without Singh, and D) the Bloc/Quebec.
by Jedi Council » Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:38 am
Kazakah wrote:Major-Tom wrote:
Sure, but lest the NDP can find another Jack Layton, they're going to struggle to really have another breakout moment. 2011's NDP surge can really be attributed to Quebec, a province I don't see swinging so wildly in the NDP's favor again.
I'd say that Quebec is the reason they lost in 2019. But, you're right they'll need a Jack Layton type if the want to win federally.
If I'm being honest though all the opposition parties are gonna need to get their act together if they want to win against the Liberals.
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Jedi Council is in fact, the big gay... The lord of all gays.
by Shrillland » Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:38 am
Dresderstan wrote:Kazakah wrote:I'd say that Quebec is the reason they lost in 2019. But, you're right they'll need a Jack Layton type if the want to win federally.
If I'm being honest though all the opposition parties are gonna need to get their act together if they want to win against the Liberals.
That's why I have this sneaking suspicion that either later this year or early next year Trudeau might call a snap election. He knows he can't risk one now due to the pandemic, but if and when this is over he would be inclined to do so because he sees a divided opposition and an increased Liberal support due to his handling of the crisis. It all depends on A) the economy B) the new Tory leader C) how weak the NDP is with/without Singh, and D) the Bloc/Quebec.
by Jedi Council » Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:09 am
Shrillland wrote:Dresderstan wrote:That's why I have this sneaking suspicion that either later this year or early next year Trudeau might call a snap election. He knows he can't risk one now due to the pandemic, but if and when this is over he would be inclined to do so because he sees a divided opposition and an increased Liberal support due to his handling of the crisis. It all depends on A) the economy B) the new Tory leader C) how weak the NDP is with/without Singh, and D) the Bloc/Quebec.
If he isn't careful, he may get his election handed to him before he's ready: https://nationalpost.com/news/singh-says-ndp-wont-support-liberal-bill-that-would-jail-fine-cerb-fraudsters
CERB's the emergency response money that's been going out to people in the pandemic. Since this is a government bill, Trudeau may be compelled to call a no confidence vote if it goes down.
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Jedi Council is in fact, the big gay... The lord of all gays.
by Outer Sparta » Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:10 am
Jedi Council wrote:Kazakah wrote:I'd say that Quebec is the reason they lost in 2019. But, you're right they'll need a Jack Layton type if the want to win federally.
If I'm being honest though all the opposition parties are gonna need to get their act together if they want to win against the Liberals.
Per Jacck Layton, they arguably need a leader who is even more dynamic and charismatic than he was.
His success in 2011 was predicated on two things
-Winning big in Quebec
-An incompetent Liberal leader.
Layton only truly won as big as he did in 2011 because he was able to appeal to Quebec. Of the 103 seats the NDP held that year, 59 of them were from la belle province. Outside of Quebec, the NDP still struggled heavily among suburban voters in places like the GTA, and Vancouver, which are two areas that are integral to every majority government.
This reflects on a key weakness for the NDP; in various provinces, they are bearing the burden of horrible provincial governments. This is especially true in Ontario, which, if we are being honest, is the most important province electorally. The fact that Singh only won 6 seats in Ontario, out of 121 just shows how much of a mountain the NDP has to climb. Even in 2011, under Layton, they only won 22 seats in Ontario.
by Shrillland » Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:14 am
Outer Sparta wrote:Jedi Council wrote:Per Jacck Layton, they arguably need a leader who is even more dynamic and charismatic than he was.
His success in 2011 was predicated on two things
-Winning big in Quebec
-An incompetent Liberal leader.
Layton only truly won as big as he did in 2011 because he was able to appeal to Quebec. Of the 103 seats the NDP held that year, 59 of them were from la belle province. Outside of Quebec, the NDP still struggled heavily among suburban voters in places like the GTA, and Vancouver, which are two areas that are integral to every majority government.
This reflects on a key weakness for the NDP; in various provinces, they are bearing the burden of horrible provincial governments. This is especially true in Ontario, which, if we are being honest, is the most important province electorally. The fact that Singh only won 6 seats in Ontario, out of 121 just shows how much of a mountain the NDP has to climb. Even in 2011, under Layton, they only won 22 seats in Ontario.
How did the NDP went down from Layton to Mulcair to Singh?
by Outer Sparta » Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:18 am
Shrillland wrote:Outer Sparta wrote:How did the NDP went down from Layton to Mulcair to Singh?
Because Layton was one of those leaders you only see once in a generation per nation. He was charismatic, understanding of others, and able to convince sceptics to get involved in the process. Also, because of his Quebecois ties, he was able to persuade federalist Bloc voters to choose them. Not since Tommy Douglas did the NDP have such a standard bearer. It wasn't a decline in party standards, it was just that no one could replicate his style.
by Jedi Council » Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:19 am
Outer Sparta wrote:Jedi Council wrote:Per Jacck Layton, they arguably need a leader who is even more dynamic and charismatic than he was.
His success in 2011 was predicated on two things
-Winning big in Quebec
-An incompetent Liberal leader.
Layton only truly won as big as he did in 2011 because he was able to appeal to Quebec. Of the 103 seats the NDP held that year, 59 of them were from la belle province. Outside of Quebec, the NDP still struggled heavily among suburban voters in places like the GTA, and Vancouver, which are two areas that are integral to every majority government.
This reflects on a key weakness for the NDP; in various provinces, they are bearing the burden of horrible provincial governments. This is especially true in Ontario, which, if we are being honest, is the most important province electorally. The fact that Singh only won 6 seats in Ontario, out of 121 just shows how much of a mountain the NDP has to climb. Even in 2011, under Layton, they only won 22 seats in Ontario.
How did the NDP went down from Layton to Mulcair to Singh?
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Jedi Council is in fact, the big gay... The lord of all gays.
by Kazakah » Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:31 am
Shrillland wrote:Outer Sparta wrote:How did the NDP went down from Layton to Mulcair to Singh?
Because Layton was one of those leaders you only see once in a generation per nation. He was charismatic, understanding of others, and able to convince sceptics to get involved in the process. Also, because of his Quebecois ties, he was able to persuade federalist Bloc voters to choose them. Not since Tommy Douglas did the NDP have such a standard bearer. It wasn't a decline in party standards, it was just that no one could replicate his style.
by Dresderstan » Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:31 am
Shrillland wrote:Dresderstan wrote:That's why I have this sneaking suspicion that either later this year or early next year Trudeau might call a snap election. He knows he can't risk one now due to the pandemic, but if and when this is over he would be inclined to do so because he sees a divided opposition and an increased Liberal support due to his handling of the crisis. It all depends on A) the economy B) the new Tory leader C) how weak the NDP is with/without Singh, and D) the Bloc/Quebec.
If he isn't careful, he may get his election handed to him before he's ready: https://nationalpost.com/news/singh-says-ndp-wont-support-liberal-bill-that-would-jail-fine-cerb-fraudsters
CERB's the emergency response money that's been going out to people in the pandemic. Since this is a government bill, Trudeau may be compelled to call a no confidence vote if it goes down.
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