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Canadian Politics

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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When do you think the next Federal Election will be?

Before the end of 2020
1
1%
Winter 2021
4
6%
Spring 2021
18
25%
Summer 2021
12
17%
Fall 2021
12
17%
In 2022
7
10%
Full 4 year term for a minority government
18
25%
 
Total votes : 72

User avatar
Shrillland
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15540
Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:23 pm

Nilokeras wrote:


The more I read about this case the more it seems like a pretty remarkable failure of vetting on the Liberals' part - in both her other previous jobs she was apparently given golden parachutes after the emergence of allegations of abuse. Which is not exactly surprising considering the Liberals' governing principle since 2015 has been sloppiness in all they do.


Yeah, the story also goes into how she's been hiring cronies for important posts at Rideau even though they're less than qualified.
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Arisyan
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 167
Founded: Apr 05, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Arisyan » Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:32 pm

The Marlborough wrote:We really need our own nuclear weapons program.


No, we don't. No country needs nukes in fact.

Shrillland wrote:The Governor-General has resigned: https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/marie-heneins-firm-hired-by-top-bureaucrat-as-tensions-rise-over-julie-payettes-alleged-toxic-workplace

This came about after a report showed Rideau Hall to be a particularly toxic workplace.


Now this was unexpected from my part. Completely unexpected. Good luck finding a new one.

Also, I really am confused at why Derek Sloan isn't crossing the floor to join the People's Party. They'd welcome him with open arms im pretty sure. Might be competitive in Hastings-Lennox-Addington, which gives them 2 seats they could maybe win! He might as well cut his losses at this point.
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Nilokeras
Diplomat
 
Posts: 850
Founded: Jul 14, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Nilokeras » Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:34 pm

Shrillland wrote:
Nilokeras wrote:
The more I read about this case the more it seems like a pretty remarkable failure of vetting on the Liberals' part - in both her other previous jobs she was apparently given golden parachutes after the emergence of allegations of abuse. Which is not exactly surprising considering the Liberals' governing principle since 2015 has been sloppiness in all they do.


Yeah, the story also goes into how she's been hiring cronies for important posts at Rideau even though they're less than qualified.


One would hope that at some point we as a country would be ready to have a conversation about the grifter class of public-adjacent figures like Payette and the ways our government is set up to cultivate them and their throngs of remoras through networks of patronage and cushy jobs like the G-G, but probably not anytime soon.

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Dresderstan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5668
Founded: Jan 18, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dresderstan » Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:09 pm

I think both O'Toole and Bloc MP Rhéal Forti made a good point about the going forwards after this resignation in regards to the G-G.

A statement from Conservative leader Erin O’Toole noted Payette is the “Commander in Chief of our Armed Forces and has an important constitutional role.”

“Considering the problems with his last appointment and the minority Parliament, the Prime Minister should consult opposition parties and re-establish the Vice-Regal Appointments Committee,” O’Toole said.

Bloc Quebecois MP Rhéal Fortin said that Payette’s resignation “further demonstrates that the government must immediately release the report on working conditions at Rideau Hall.” He also said the now-vacant post is “a great opportunity to question the usefulness of an outdated function that has no place in a democracy.”
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User avatar
Shrillland
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15540
Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:15 pm

Dresderstan wrote:I think both O'Toole and Bloc MP Rhéal Forti made a good point about the going forwards after this resignation in regards to the G-G.

A statement from Conservative leader Erin O’Toole noted Payette is the “Commander in Chief of our Armed Forces and has an important constitutional role.”

“Considering the problems with his last appointment and the minority Parliament, the Prime Minister should consult opposition parties and re-establish the Vice-Regal Appointments Committee,” O’Toole said.

Bloc Quebecois MP Rhéal Fortin said that Payette’s resignation “further demonstrates that the government must immediately release the report on working conditions at Rideau Hall.” He also said the now-vacant post is “a great opportunity to question the usefulness of an outdated function that has no place in a democracy.”


Well, we'll see what Trudeau does in the next few days. Expanding the committee to be an all-major party affair with the language requirements wouldn't go amiss, but it needs to go into the constitution as a binding requirement.
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The Marlborough
Minister
 
Posts: 2573
Founded: May 27, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Marlborough » Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:33 pm

Nilokeras wrote:
The Marlborough wrote:I know a lot of Canadians further to the left are really desperate for Canada to have its own Trump, but simply put that isn't likely because the dynamics of Canadian politics (ie it's parliamentarian FPTP system) and history are not the same as they are in the United States. This may come as a shocker but we aren't America Jr and will not inherently follow their political trajectory lock and step much like Mexico doesn't do the same despite being culturally more similar to the Southern half much like we're culturally more similar to the Northern half.

There is a reason most of our blow hard alt-right types tend to have to move to the States or only become popular and relevant in American politics and not Canadian politics.


The worry about a Trump-like figure comes from a material analysis of the Canadian political and economic situation, not cultural.

Which is a mistake to make. It's not just those factors that shape political developments.
Dresderstan wrote:I think both O'Toole and Bloc MP Rhéal Forti made a good point about the going forwards after this resignation in regards to the G-G.

A statement from Conservative leader Erin O’Toole noted Payette is the “Commander in Chief of our Armed Forces and has an important constitutional role.”

“Considering the problems with his last appointment and the minority Parliament, the Prime Minister should consult opposition parties and re-establish the Vice-Regal Appointments Committee,” O’Toole said.

Bloc Quebecois MP Rhéal Fortin said that Payette’s resignation “further demonstrates that the government must immediately release the report on working conditions at Rideau Hall.” He also said the now-vacant post is “a great opportunity to question the usefulness of an outdated function that has no place in a democracy.”
O'Toole is correct and you can always trust a Bloc member to take any opportunity to revisit the can of worms that is the Canadian constitution.
Last edited by The Marlborough on Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Monarchist. Communitarian-Distributist. Eastern Orthodox Christian. Unironic Vlad III (aka Vlad Dracula or Vlad the Impaler) fan and apologist. My posting style is inspired by old school shitposting and MEMRI TV. Anti-free speech. Harambe had it coming.
Somewhat of a Slavophile, Hispanophile, Persophile, Romanianophile and Indophile. Pro-Canadian nuclear weapons program.
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Penguinya
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 170
Founded: Jan 25, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Penguinya » Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:15 pm

Please let me delete my post.
Last edited by Penguinya on Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I use NS stats because the Pacific has a guidebook.
I’m Penguinya, a nation which is themed off of penguins, but we have humans too and aims to build a big military. It's just hard to answer issues correctly sometimes...

Kathol Rift wrote:No, it shouldn’t be renamed. George Washington was the first President, and without his leadership, this country probably wouldn’t exist today. I’m not saying he was all sunshine and rainbows, but we can’t just ignore history in favor of political correctness.

Penguinya mostly doesn’t represent my RL views.

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Bienenhalde
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5737
Founded: Mar 11, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Bienenhalde » Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:19 pm

Shrillland wrote:The Governor-General has resigned: https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/marie-heneins-firm-hired-by-top-bureaucrat-as-tensions-rise-over-julie-payettes-alleged-toxic-workplace

This came about after a report showed Rideau Hall to be a particularly toxic workplace.


I can't say I am totally surprised that this happened. I remember a few years back when she made dismissive remarks concerning people believing in "divine intervention". I thought that what she said was completely inappropriate and a big red flag.
Bienenhalde (mostly) represents my real political views.
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Nevertopia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1811
Founded: May 27, 2020
New York Times Democracy

Postby Nevertopia » Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:23 pm

Canada having nukes is a bad thing the same way any other country gaining nukes is a bad thing. The only tool we have against nuclear armageddon is a bunch of UN nuclear treaties signed during the cold war to stop nuclear proliferation and to defang the US and Russia's stockpiles. Until we can create Sci-fi tech that can render a nuclear reaction inert on detonation on demand more nukes around the world increases the chance that somebody somewhere presses the big red self destruct button.

Anyways, whats the noise with O'Toole about? Ive been so distracted watching the season finale for the US I havent been keeping up with the local news.
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Shrillland
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15540
Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:28 pm

Nevertopia wrote:Canada having nukes is a bad thing the same way any other country gaining nukes is a bad thing. The only tool we have against nuclear armageddon is a bunch of UN nuclear treaties signed during the cold war to stop nuclear proliferation and to defang the US and Russia's stockpiles. Until we can create Sci-fi tech that can render a nuclear reaction inert on detonation on demand more nukes around the world increases the chance that somebody somewhere presses the big red self destruct button.

Anyways, whats the noise with O'Toole about? Ive been so distracted watching the season finale for the US I havent been keeping up with the local news.


Just O'Toole made a statement calling for the return of the Vice-Regency Advisory Council.
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Nevertopia
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Posts: 1811
Founded: May 27, 2020
New York Times Democracy

Postby Nevertopia » Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:29 pm

Shrillland wrote:
Nevertopia wrote:Canada having nukes is a bad thing the same way any other country gaining nukes is a bad thing. The only tool we have against nuclear armageddon is a bunch of UN nuclear treaties signed during the cold war to stop nuclear proliferation and to defang the US and Russia's stockpiles. Until we can create Sci-fi tech that can render a nuclear reaction inert on detonation on demand more nukes around the world increases the chance that somebody somewhere presses the big red self destruct button.

Anyways, whats the noise with O'Toole about? Ive been so distracted watching the season finale for the US I havent been keeping up with the local news.


Just O'Toole made a statement calling for the return of the Vice-Regency Advisory Council.


no idea what that even is. Could you give me an eli5?
Down with the CCP
Communism has failed every time its been tried.
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Penguinya
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 170
Founded: Jan 25, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Penguinya » Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:35 pm

I meant that like this:
Good: nobody attacks you, deterrent
Bad: MAD, nuclear waste etc.
I use NS stats because the Pacific has a guidebook.
I’m Penguinya, a nation which is themed off of penguins, but we have humans too and aims to build a big military. It's just hard to answer issues correctly sometimes...

Kathol Rift wrote:No, it shouldn’t be renamed. George Washington was the first President, and without his leadership, this country probably wouldn’t exist today. I’m not saying he was all sunshine and rainbows, but we can’t just ignore history in favor of political correctness.

Penguinya mostly doesn’t represent my RL views.

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Shrillland
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15540
Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:46 pm

Nevertopia wrote:
Shrillland wrote:
Just O'Toole made a statement calling for the return of the Vice-Regency Advisory Council.


no idea what that even is. Could you give me an eli5?


Back in Harper's day, the Council was an advisory body made up of people to determine who the G-G should be instead the PM deciding by themselves. Trudeau scrapped it when he came in.
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Nevertopia
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Founded: May 27, 2020
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Postby Nevertopia » Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:49 pm

Penguinya wrote:I meant that like this:
Good: nobody attacks you, deterrent
Bad: MAD, nuclear waste etc.


yes having nuclear weapons is a great deterrent but only if gets up to open war which everyone is actively avoiding. As Russia has shown us in the last 4 years, nukes dont render a nations economy or political culture immune from misinformation and radicalization. At which point the nuclear weapon becomes a proverbial gun pointed at the nation's head that possesses it. I think thats going to be the gameplan from now on in a post-trump era. Get the enemy to turn on each other and let them nuke themselves. The next battlefield is cyberspace and information. On the flipside, after Ukraine disarmed their nuclear arsenal they got invaded by Russia.

So yes nukes are "good" as a "deterrent", but are becoming less of a factor on how modern day international conflicts are solved.
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Arisyan
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 167
Founded: Apr 05, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Arisyan » Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:49 pm

Shrillland wrote:
Nevertopia wrote:
no idea what that even is. Could you give me an eli5?


Back in Harper's day, the Council was an advisory body made up of people to determine who the G-G should be instead the PM deciding by themselves. Trudeau scrapped it when he came in.


ah yes, the Harper Years. *sigh*. An era of so much lost hope and pain. Whenever I look at the 2011 election I think what could have been.....

Anyways it was a good idea however it can be easily manipulated, however there should be some way that all parties have a way of approving the G-G.
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Nevertopia
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Founded: May 27, 2020
New York Times Democracy

Postby Nevertopia » Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:01 pm

Arisyan wrote:
Shrillland wrote:
Back in Harper's day, the Council was an advisory body made up of people to determine who the G-G should be instead the PM deciding by themselves. Trudeau scrapped it when he came in.


ah yes, the Harper Years. *sigh*. An era of so much lost hope and pain. Whenever I look at the 2011 election I think what could have been.....

Anyways it was a good idea however it can be easily manipulated, however there should be some way that all parties have a way of approving the G-G.


i really have no strong opinion on this matter either way. Should I be shocked? outraged? cautious? I dont know anymore, the bar for bs have been pushed so high these last few years I cant tell whats questionable if it wasn't telling me to drink bleach while banging an adult actress.
Down with the CCP
Communism has failed every time its been tried.
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Farnhamia
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Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Farnhamia » Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:13 pm

How come this thread was started almost exactly two years ago and we went through 20 MAGAThreads in four years?
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Nevertopia
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Founded: May 27, 2020
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Postby Nevertopia » Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:14 pm

Farnhamia wrote:How come this thread was started almost exactly two years ago and we went through 20 MAGAThreads in four years?


having 5 different main political parties helps.
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The Marlborough
Minister
 
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Founded: May 27, 2020
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Postby The Marlborough » Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:16 pm

Nevertopia wrote:Canada having nukes is a bad thing the same way any other country gaining nukes is a bad thing. The only tool we have against nuclear armageddon is a bunch of UN nuclear treaties signed during the cold war to stop nuclear proliferation and to defang the US and Russia's stockpiles. Until we can create Sci-fi tech that can render a nuclear reaction inert on detonation on demand more nukes around the world increases the chance that somebody somewhere presses the big red self destruct button.

I disagree. As American power wanes, we have to be willing to plug the gap more ourselves. Further, with the ravages that climate change is going to bring, our fresh water reserves are going to be a prime target for exploiting by many country's - including the US. Further as the NWP opens up, it'll be another point of contention between ourselves, Russia, and the United States. Nuclear weapons are the only way to guarantee we aren't outright invaded and that our sovereignty is respected. Libya and Ukraine are prime examples as to why it's stupid to give up a WMD program while North Korea and Israel are prime examples as to why it's a good idea to have even a small stockpile of nuclear weapons.
Monarchist. Communitarian-Distributist. Eastern Orthodox Christian. Unironic Vlad III (aka Vlad Dracula or Vlad the Impaler) fan and apologist. My posting style is inspired by old school shitposting and MEMRI TV. Anti-free speech. Harambe had it coming.
Somewhat of a Slavophile, Hispanophile, Persophile, Romanianophile and Indophile. Pro-Canadian nuclear weapons program.
Everything for the people, nothing by the people - Emperor Joseph II
If I could wish immortality on earth, it would only be for the power of relieving the distressed - Maria Theresa
Support the Lil Red Dress Project to bring awareness to MMIWG.
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The Marlborough
Minister
 
Posts: 2573
Founded: May 27, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Marlborough » Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:18 pm

Farnhamia wrote:How come this thread was started almost exactly two years ago and we went through 20 MAGAThreads in four years?

Lack of Canadians compared to Americans on NSG, non-Canadians generally not being interested in Canadian politics, and being less unstable and dysfunctional as a country.
Monarchist. Communitarian-Distributist. Eastern Orthodox Christian. Unironic Vlad III (aka Vlad Dracula or Vlad the Impaler) fan and apologist. My posting style is inspired by old school shitposting and MEMRI TV. Anti-free speech. Harambe had it coming.
Somewhat of a Slavophile, Hispanophile, Persophile, Romanianophile and Indophile. Pro-Canadian nuclear weapons program.
Everything for the people, nothing by the people - Emperor Joseph II
If I could wish immortality on earth, it would only be for the power of relieving the distressed - Maria Theresa
Support the Lil Red Dress Project to bring awareness to MMIWG.
Bless our neon cyberpunk future.

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Shrillland
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15540
Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:19 pm

Farnhamia wrote:How come this thread was started almost exactly two years ago and we went through 20 MAGAThreads in four years?


Canada's fairly quiet compared to the US. Also, a lot of their news from the last year is more suited for the Covid thread than this one. And Canada doesn't have as many people interested in it since Canada's supposed to be a place where people just get along, even though that's pretty far from the truth in many cases.
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Nevertopia
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Founded: May 27, 2020
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Postby Nevertopia » Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:24 pm

The Marlborough wrote:
Nevertopia wrote:Canada having nukes is a bad thing the same way any other country gaining nukes is a bad thing. The only tool we have against nuclear armageddon is a bunch of UN nuclear treaties signed during the cold war to stop nuclear proliferation and to defang the US and Russia's stockpiles. Until we can create Sci-fi tech that can render a nuclear reaction inert on detonation on demand more nukes around the world increases the chance that somebody somewhere presses the big red self destruct button.

I disagree. As American power wanes, we have to be willing to plug the gap more ourselves. Further, with the ravages that climate change is going to bring, our fresh water reserves are going to be a prime target for exploiting by many country's - including the US. Further as the NWP opens up, it'll be another point of contention between ourselves, Russia, and the United States. Nuclear weapons are the only way to guarantee we aren't outright invaded and that our sovereignty is respected. Libya and Ukraine are prime examples as to why it's stupid to give up a WMD program while North Korea and Israel are prime examples as to why it's a good idea to have even a small stockpile of nuclear weapons.


you got a point, but wouldnt a global coalition and economic sanctions be just as affective? If we cripple our enemy's economic and political stability the best case result would be political upheaval and a regime being removed from power as a result without us committing to a war.
Down with the CCP
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The Marlborough
Minister
 
Posts: 2573
Founded: May 27, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Marlborough » Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:42 pm

Nevertopia wrote:
The Marlborough wrote:I disagree. As American power wanes, we have to be willing to plug the gap more ourselves. Further, with the ravages that climate change is going to bring, our fresh water reserves are going to be a prime target for exploiting by many country's - including the US. Further as the NWP opens up, it'll be another point of contention between ourselves, Russia, and the United States. Nuclear weapons are the only way to guarantee we aren't outright invaded and that our sovereignty is respected. Libya and Ukraine are prime examples as to why it's stupid to give up a WMD program while North Korea and Israel are prime examples as to why it's a good idea to have even a small stockpile of nuclear weapons.


you got a point, but wouldnt a global coalition and economic sanctions be just as affective? If we cripple our enemy's economic and political stability the best case result would be political upheaval and a regime being removed from power as a result without us committing to a war.

That very rarely works and wouldn't work on global powers like the US or Russia. Countries far less powerful and economically dominant survive sanctions from global coalitions. If it were America, doubly so. A lot of the resources they need are ones they could obtain at home or from countries that wouldn't care whether we were under their boot or not. We're sandwiched between two nuclear powers with a more tumultuous and chaotic era on the horizon - the only way to secure ourselves imo is to develop our own nuclear arsenal. Further, the era of going against nuclear proliferation is probably going to end soon. A number of countries are seeking to, at the very least, modernize if not increase their stockpiles or obtain their own weapons. Notably today, Japan refused to sign a treaty banning nuclear weapons ostensibly because of North Korea's own stockpile. Who knows, perhaps one day the Japanese will want to develop their own? Unlikely but then again it's hard to say how a country can change in fifty let alone one hundred years. It's a sad state of affairs, I agree, but so long as it exists I'd rather have a greater guarantee at securing ourselves than not.

Perhaps if the rest of us started building our own, the great powers would actually take nuclear weapons abolition seriously. One of the problems was that they had a "Do as I say, not as I do" approach to the issue.
Monarchist. Communitarian-Distributist. Eastern Orthodox Christian. Unironic Vlad III (aka Vlad Dracula or Vlad the Impaler) fan and apologist. My posting style is inspired by old school shitposting and MEMRI TV. Anti-free speech. Harambe had it coming.
Somewhat of a Slavophile, Hispanophile, Persophile, Romanianophile and Indophile. Pro-Canadian nuclear weapons program.
Everything for the people, nothing by the people - Emperor Joseph II
If I could wish immortality on earth, it would only be for the power of relieving the distressed - Maria Theresa
Support the Lil Red Dress Project to bring awareness to MMIWG.
Bless our neon cyberpunk future.

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The Marlborough
Minister
 
Posts: 2573
Founded: May 27, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Marlborough » Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:47 pm

I am also 100% on board with calling any future Canadian nuclear weapons Canukes and further we should try to develop a way for their nuclear hellfire to have the scent of maple syrup.
Monarchist. Communitarian-Distributist. Eastern Orthodox Christian. Unironic Vlad III (aka Vlad Dracula or Vlad the Impaler) fan and apologist. My posting style is inspired by old school shitposting and MEMRI TV. Anti-free speech. Harambe had it coming.
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Nevertopia
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Founded: May 27, 2020
New York Times Democracy

Postby Nevertopia » Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:48 pm

The Marlborough wrote:
Nevertopia wrote:
you got a point, but wouldnt a global coalition and economic sanctions be just as affective? If we cripple our enemy's economic and political stability the best case result would be political upheaval and a regime being removed from power as a result without us committing to a war.

That very rarely works and wouldn't work on global powers like the US or Russia. Countries far less powerful and economically dominant survive sanctions from global coalitions. If it were America, doubly so. A lot of the resources they need are ones they could obtain at home or from countries that wouldn't care whether we were under their boot or not. We're sandwiched between two nuclear powers with a more tumultuous and chaotic era on the horizon - the only way to secure ourselves imo is to develop our own nuclear arsenal. Further, the era of going against nuclear proliferation is probably going to end soon. A number of countries are seeking to, at the very least, modernize if not increase their stockpiles or obtain their own weapons. Notably today, Japan refused to sign a treaty banning nuclear weapons ostensibly because of North Korea's own stockpile. Who knows, perhaps one day the Japanese will want to develop their own? Unlikely but then again it's hard to say how a country can change in fifty let alone one hundred years. It's a sad state of affairs, I agree, but so long as it exists I'd rather have a greater guarantee at securing ourselves than not.

Perhaps if the rest of us started building our own, the great powers would actually take nuclear weapons abolition seriously. One of the problems was that they had a "Do as I say, not as I do" approach to the issue.


On the other hand having a law say nobody else can have nukes means less countries could potentially use nuclear weapons at us and theres less risk of a nation going rogue and launching one. I still think global coalition of economic sanctions is the way to go, that and the help of the US and their nuclear deterrent to cancel out that option from an aggressor, frustratingly enough. Its like, you need nukes to stop nukes but more nukes leads to more chances to use them.
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