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For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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When do you think the next Federal Election will be?

Before the end of 2020
1
1%
Winter 2021
4
5%
Spring 2021
18
25%
Summer 2021
12
16%
Fall 2021
12
16%
In 2022
7
10%
Full 4 year term for a minority government
19
26%
 
Total votes : 73

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Shrillland
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Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:46 pm

It's official. Newfoundland and Labrador goes to the polls on Saturday, February 13: https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/newfoundland-and-labrador-voters-head-to-polls-on-feb-13/ar-BB1cNa6r?li=AAggNb9

Currently, the polls show a massive majority in store for the Liberals with the Tories and NDP struggling to get out of single digits seatwise.
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Kazakah
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Postby Kazakah » Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:26 am

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/ ... upremacist

The Conservatives will vote on the removal of MP Derek Sloan from the party for accepting a donation from a known white supremacist during his leadership campaign.
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Kazakah
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Postby Kazakah » Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:30 am

I think it's very possible Sloan didn't know who the donator was as he received thousands of donations over the course of his campaign. However, Sloan has been walking a very thin line lately and this seems like an smart political move by O'Toole.

https://mobile.twitter.com/erinotoole/s ... frame.html

Here is O'Toole's statement on the removal of Sloan.
✸ THE IMPERIAL DOMINION OF KAZAKAH ✸
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National Overview | Our Emperor | Armed Forces


- Imperial Gazette - Government enters negotiations with Langenia and Romextly, creation of the "Iron Pact" underway | Nura Khan crowned as Sultana of Insaanistan | Sharifistan War draws to a close, withdrawal of troops begins

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Arisyan
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 174
Founded: Apr 05, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Arisyan » Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:34 am

Shrillland wrote:It's official. Newfoundland and Labrador goes to the polls on Saturday, February 13: https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/newfoundland-and-labrador-voters-head-to-polls-on-feb-13/ar-BB1cNa6r?li=AAggNb9

Currently, the polls show a massive majority in store for the Liberals with the Tories and NDP struggling to get out of single digits seatwise.


So something I noticed is that the NDP are fielding 21 candidates, enough to get them a majority if they win every single seat they're fielding a candidate in. IN any case I have a feeling the NDP are probably gonna lose Labrador West (given how they only won it by 2 votes last time) but pick up a seat in St Johns, so it'll be a no net gain for them. Liberals are gonna go back to 2015 levels of support and win a landslide victory, PCs are gonna maybe keep like 10 seats, but probably less.

Kazakah wrote:https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/otoole-seeks-to-kick-mp-derek-sloan-from-conservative-caucus-after-campaign-donation-from-white-supremacist

The Conservatives will vote on the removal of MP Derek Sloan from the party for accepting a donation from a known white supremacist during his leadership campaign.


Honestly I say full steam ahead he can go join the People's Party and be their only seat for a while for all I care for.
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Shrillland
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Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:43 am

Kazakah wrote:I think it's very possible Sloan didn't know who the donator was as he received thousands of donations over the course of his campaign. However, Sloan has been walking a very thin line lately and this seems like an smart political move by O'Toole.

https://mobile.twitter.com/erinotoole/s ... frame.html

Here is O'Toole's statement on the removal of Sloan.


Maybe, but it still doesn't look good for the party as a whole even as it has to lurch rightward. Good on them to get rid of him.
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Kazakah
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Postby Kazakah » Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:42 am

Shrillland wrote:
Kazakah wrote:I think it's very possible Sloan didn't know who the donator was as he received thousands of donations over the course of his campaign. However, Sloan has been walking a very thin line lately and this seems like an smart political move by O'Toole.

https://mobile.twitter.com/erinotoole/s ... frame.html

Here is O'Toole's statement on the removal of Sloan.


Maybe, but it still doesn't look good for the party as a whole even as it has to lurch rightward. Good on them to get rid of him.


Very much so. It sends a message that O'Toole isnt gonna stand for stuff like that
✸ THE IMPERIAL DOMINION OF KAZAKAH ✸
An ancient nation with a warrior heritage: Might, Valour, and Legally Blonde
National Overview | Our Emperor | Armed Forces


- Imperial Gazette - Government enters negotiations with Langenia and Romextly, creation of the "Iron Pact" underway | Nura Khan crowned as Sultana of Insaanistan | Sharifistan War draws to a close, withdrawal of troops begins

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Nilokeras
Diplomat
 
Posts: 860
Founded: Jul 14, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Nilokeras » Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:58 am

Kazakah wrote:I think it's very possible Sloan didn't know who the donator was as he received thousands of donations over the course of his campaign. However, Sloan has been walking a very thin line lately and this seems like an smart political move by O'Toole.

https://mobile.twitter.com/erinotoole/s ... frame.html

Here is O'Toole's statement on the removal of Sloan.


It's a dangerous line to walk since Sloan is probably the closest Canadian politics has come to emulating the 'Trump formula' of loud brash mask-off reaction, as compared to the wet blankets of Leitch and Bernier. Keeping him in the party but otherwise censuring or reprimanding him might be the best way to disarm that impulse and keep him from forming the nucleus of a lumpen-Q-esque splinter party.

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Shrillland
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Posts: 15568
Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:01 pm

Nilokeras wrote:
Kazakah wrote:I think it's very possible Sloan didn't know who the donator was as he received thousands of donations over the course of his campaign. However, Sloan has been walking a very thin line lately and this seems like an smart political move by O'Toole.

https://mobile.twitter.com/erinotoole/s ... frame.html

Here is O'Toole's statement on the removal of Sloan.


It's a dangerous line to walk since Sloan is probably the closest Canadian politics has come to emulating the 'Trump formula' of loud brash mask-off reaction, as compared to the wet blankets of Leitch and Bernier. Keeping him in the party but otherwise censuring or reprimanding him might be the best way to disarm that impulse and keep him from forming the nucleus of a lumpen-Q-esque splinter party.


I'm not sure he could succeed in doing that as long as Lewis's star continues to rise, and it shall. She's the future for Canada's right, not Sloan or Bernier.
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Nilokeras
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Founded: Jul 14, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Nilokeras » Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:58 pm

Shrillland wrote:
Nilokeras wrote:
It's a dangerous line to walk since Sloan is probably the closest Canadian politics has come to emulating the 'Trump formula' of loud brash mask-off reaction, as compared to the wet blankets of Leitch and Bernier. Keeping him in the party but otherwise censuring or reprimanding him might be the best way to disarm that impulse and keep him from forming the nucleus of a lumpen-Q-esque splinter party.


I'm not sure he could succeed in doing that as long as Lewis's star continues to rise, and it shall. She's the future for Canada's right, not Sloan or Bernier.


She doesn't have quite the same energy or willingness to snub the party elite as Sloan though. I can see her being put forward as a rehabilitative candidate in the future - someone who attempts to appeal to the priorities of the reactionary right but within the establishment framework, particularly if the mainstream candidates in the party fail to gain purchase.

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The Marlborough
Minister
 
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Founded: May 27, 2020
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Postby The Marlborough » Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:11 pm

Nilokeras wrote:
Shrillland wrote:
I'm not sure he could succeed in doing that as long as Lewis's star continues to rise, and it shall. She's the future for Canada's right, not Sloan or Bernier.


She doesn't have quite the same energy or willingness to snub the party elite as Sloan though. I can see her being put forward as a rehabilitative candidate in the future - someone who attempts to appeal to the priorities of the reactionary right but within the establishment framework, particularly if the mainstream candidates in the party fail to gain purchase.

She does actually, she's just not bellicose about it. Further, Derek Sloan has very, very little appeal within the Conservative Party (speaking as someone who is actually a member of the party for the time being). His only major show of support were in a handful of areas in Ontario whereas a lot of people were expecting him to do really well in the Prairies - he didn't. Dr. Leslyn Lewis however punched far above what was expected especially given the lack of media attention she was given compared to the other candidates. He wasn't really competitive in any of the provinces, the closest he got was Manitoba which was really divided but even there he couldn't crack above 20% and was still 6 percentage points behind Lewis. Lewis actually flat out won Saskatchewan in the first round. Nor does she even appeal to the reactionary right, they were pretty dismissive of her.
Last edited by The Marlborough on Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Nilokeras
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Postby Nilokeras » Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:22 pm

The Marlborough wrote:
Nilokeras wrote:
She doesn't have quite the same energy or willingness to snub the party elite as Sloan though. I can see her being put forward as a rehabilitative candidate in the future - someone who attempts to appeal to the priorities of the reactionary right but within the establishment framework, particularly if the mainstream candidates in the party fail to gain purchase.

She does actually, she's just not bellicose about it. Further, Derek Sloan has very, very little appeal within the Conservative Party (speaking as someone who is actually a member of the party for the time being). His only major show of support were in a handful of areas in Ontario whereas a lot of people were expecting him to do really well in the Prairies - he didn't. Dr. Leslyn Lewis however punched far above what was expected especially given the lack of media attention she was given compared to the other candidates. He wasn't really competitive in any of the provinces, the closest he got was Manitoba which was really divided but even there he couldn't crack above 20% and was still 6 percentage points behind Lewis. Lewis actually flat out won Saskatchewan in the first round. Nor does she even appeal to the reactionary right, they were pretty dismissive of her.


To clarify when I say the 'Trump formula' I think it's less about his ability to get electoral success - which as you correctly point out he hasn't been able to get - but moreso the cattiness and ability to suck the oxygen out of a room for his own purposes, particularly on social media. Lewis like you said is much more mainstream and has the ability to work with the party apparatus despite holding many of the same views as Sloan. Keeping Sloan in the party subordinates him significantly and keeps him as a perennial 14% runner up candidate whose reactionary voters will inevitably get in line behind Lewis. Compare that to if he gets kicked out and starts his own party, where he can be the independent nucleus of a rightist opposition to the Tories. That nucleus may or may not be successful electorally, but it provides an articulation for the sort of reactionary views that the Tories have so far successfully suppressed and which Bernier was too ahead of the times for.
Last edited by Nilokeras on Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Marlborough
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Postby The Marlborough » Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:37 pm

Nilokeras wrote:To clarify when I say the 'Trump formula' I think it's less about his ability to get electoral success - which as you correctly point out he hasn't been able to get - but moreso the cattiness and ability to suck the oxygen out of a room for his own purposes, particularly on social media.
This is more Bernier's thing and it hasn't really been effective since his party is demolished each time it pops up in a local election and is currently hated by quite a number of Conservatives because they see them as vote splitters. Sloan doesn't have that kind of social media appeal, he actually has a pretty weak social media game even by Canadian politician standards. He just says stupid shit and then Liberals pounce on it.
Lewis like you said is much more mainstream and has the ability to work with the party apparatus despite holding many of the same views as Sloan.
I wouldn't call her mainstream at all, a lot of her economic views are contrary to what a lot of Blue Tories believe in especially in regards to agriculture. Further, her policies are also pretty far from Sloan who is more of a social conservative libertarian. She's closer to the Red Tory side of things out of them all (Purple Tory maybe? I dunno). The only thing you can say they are similar on is abortion and legalized euthanasia. Even their approach to immigration is vastly different and attracts different types of people.
Keeping Sloan in the party subordinates him significantly and keeps him as a perennial 14% runner up candidate whose reactionary voters will inevitably get in line behind Lewis.
Except they wont unless all they care about is abortion in which case they probably would do it anyway even if Sloan remained in the party because the pro-life movement is increasingly starting to come around to be against economic liberalism which Sloan still very much still adheres to.
Last edited by The Marlborough on Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Marlborough
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Postby The Marlborough » Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:47 pm

I know a lot of Canadians further to the left are really desperate for Canada to have its own Trump, but simply put that isn't likely because the dynamics of Canadian politics (ie it's parliamentarian FPTP system) and history are not the same as they are in the United States. This may come as a shocker but we aren't America Jr and will not inherently follow their political trajectory lock and step much like Mexico doesn't do the same despite being culturally more similar to the Southern half much like we're culturally more similar to the Northern half.

There is a reason most of our blow hard alt-right types tend to have to move to the States or only become popular and relevant in American politics and not Canadian politics.
Last edited by The Marlborough on Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Major-Tom
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Founded: Mar 09, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Major-Tom » Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:58 pm

Nilokeras wrote:
Kazakah wrote:I think it's very possible Sloan didn't know who the donator was as he received thousands of donations over the course of his campaign. However, Sloan has been walking a very thin line lately and this seems like an smart political move by O'Toole.

https://mobile.twitter.com/erinotoole/s ... frame.html

Here is O'Toole's statement on the removal of Sloan.


It's a dangerous line to walk since Sloan is probably the closest Canadian politics has come to emulating the 'Trump formula' of loud brash mask-off reaction, as compared to the wet blankets of Leitch and Bernier. Keeping him in the party but otherwise censuring or reprimanding him might be the best way to disarm that impulse and keep him from forming the nucleus of a lumpen-Q-esque splinter party.


The inverse of that is it sends a message that "The CPC is a big-tent, including people who are far-right reactionaries." That is one surefire way to get crushed in On/QC once again.
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Shrillland
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Postby Shrillland » Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:01 pm

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The Marlborough
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Postby The Marlborough » Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:04 pm

Major-Tom wrote:
Nilokeras wrote:
It's a dangerous line to walk since Sloan is probably the closest Canadian politics has come to emulating the 'Trump formula' of loud brash mask-off reaction, as compared to the wet blankets of Leitch and Bernier. Keeping him in the party but otherwise censuring or reprimanding him might be the best way to disarm that impulse and keep him from forming the nucleus of a lumpen-Q-esque splinter party.


The inverse of that is it sends a message that "The CPC is a big-tent, including people who are far-right reactionaries." That is one surefire way to get crushed in On/QC once again.
Perhaps so for Ontario, not really for Quebec considering how hilariously racist the province is. If anything it'd improve their odds in Quebec, though tanking it elsewhere.
Last edited by The Marlborough on Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Somewhat of a Slavophile, Hispanophile, Persophile, Romanianophile and Indophile. Pro-Canadian nuclear weapons program.
Everything for the people, nothing by the people - Emperor Joseph II
If I could wish immortality on earth, it would only be for the power of relieving the distressed - Maria Theresa
Support the Lil Red Dress Project to bring awareness to MMIWG.
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Major-Tom
Postmaster-General
 
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Founded: Mar 09, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Major-Tom » Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:07 pm

The Marlborough wrote:
Major-Tom wrote:
The inverse of that is it sends a message that "The CPC is a big-tent, including people who are far-right reactionaries." That is one surefire way to get crushed in On/QC once again.
Perhaps so for Ontario, not really for Quebec considering how hilariously racist the province is. If anything it'd improve their odds in Quebec, though tanking it elsewhere.


QC certainly has a racism problem, but I think people have an uncomfortable time admitting that most US States and most Canadian provinces have one as well. You can look at QC politics recently and see that they don't really stomach the full message of the far-right all too much, even if that province simultaneously is known for being hostile to immigrants in many respects.

The success of a far-right populist in certain regions goes well beyond whether that region is "hostile to X, Y and Z."
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The Marlborough
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Postby The Marlborough » Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:15 pm

Major-Tom wrote:
The Marlborough wrote:Perhaps so for Ontario, not really for Quebec considering how hilariously racist the province is. If anything it'd improve their odds in Quebec, though tanking it elsewhere.


QC certainly has a racism problem, but I think people have an uncomfortable time admitting that most US States and most Canadian provinces have one as well. You can look at QC politics recently and see that they don't really stomach the full message of the far-right all too much, even if that province simultaneously is known for being hostile to immigrants in many respects.

The success of a far-right populist in certain regions goes well beyond whether that region is "hostile to X, Y and Z."

*Looks to Quebec politics and the provincial and federal level*
I would say they are quite happy with embracing with far-right aspects given recent developments and their history in general.
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Postby Kowani » Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:22 pm

Image
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The Marlborough
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Postby The Marlborough » Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:58 pm

We really need our own nuclear weapons program.
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Somewhat of a Slavophile, Hispanophile, Persophile, Romanianophile and Indophile. Pro-Canadian nuclear weapons program.
Everything for the people, nothing by the people - Emperor Joseph II
If I could wish immortality on earth, it would only be for the power of relieving the distressed - Maria Theresa
Support the Lil Red Dress Project to bring awareness to MMIWG.
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Nilokeras
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Founded: Jul 14, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Nilokeras » Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:02 pm

The Marlborough wrote:This is more Bernier's thing and it hasn't really been effective since his party is demolished each time it pops up in a local election and is currently hated by quite a number of Conservatives because they see them as vote splitters. Sloan doesn't have that kind of social media appeal, he actually has a pretty weak social media game even by Canadian politician standards. He just says stupid shit and then Liberals pounce on it.


Bernier I'd argue was the wrong guy at the wrong time - a perennial dairy subsidies wonk who unsuccessfuly tried to make the pivot to populism without an issue or set of issues to coalesce around. And again, I'm not saying Sloan is Trump or is even remotely on the trajectory to becoming Trump. I'm saying he's the closest anyone in Canadian politics has come to emulating that formula, which as you rightly point out isn't very close. Best case scenario if he goes it alone is that he becomes part of the new class of perma-grifters, maybe as a sitting independent MP and maybe not. But if he does he risks becoming a point around which the movement could articulate itself.

The Marlborough wrote:I wouldn't call her mainstream at all, a lot of her economic views are contrary to what a lot of Blue Tories believe in especially in regards to agriculture. Further, her policies are also pretty far from Sloan who is more of a social conservative libertarian. She's closer to the Red Tory side of things out of them all (Purple Tory maybe? I dunno). The only thing you can say they are similar on is abortion and legalized euthanasia. Even their approach to immigration is vastly different and attracts different types of people.


The Marlborough wrote:Except they wont unless all they care about is abortion in which case they probably would do it anyway even if Sloan remained in the party because the pro-life movement is increasingly starting to come around to be against economic liberalism which Sloan still very much still adheres to.


To respond to both of these points - Lewis' capture of votes from Sloan's voters in the later rounds of the race (iirc) shows that despite the differences between them Sloan's voters have more affinity for her than they do with the quote-unquote 'mainstream' of the party, and Lewis can leverage that appeal. Which is what I was getting at as her being a rehabilitative candidate.

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Nilokeras
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Nilokeras » Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:06 pm

The Marlborough wrote:I know a lot of Canadians further to the left are really desperate for Canada to have its own Trump, but simply put that isn't likely because the dynamics of Canadian politics (ie it's parliamentarian FPTP system) and history are not the same as they are in the United States. This may come as a shocker but we aren't America Jr and will not inherently follow their political trajectory lock and step much like Mexico doesn't do the same despite being culturally more similar to the Southern half much like we're culturally more similar to the Northern half.

There is a reason most of our blow hard alt-right types tend to have to move to the States or only become popular and relevant in American politics and not Canadian politics.


The worry about a Trump-like figure comes from a material analysis of the Canadian political and economic situation, not cultural.

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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:23 am

Kowani wrote:(Image)


Why are they blameing the liberals for this? Biden doesn't want keystone. This is an exclusively Amereican decision.

Also fuck keystone. No permanent jobs, oil spills and bulding over first nations land are all shitty.


Yes we do need Canada back to work but we can do this without keystone.

The Marlborough wrote:We really need our own nuclear weapons program.


No we don't. The world needs less nukes not more.
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Shrillland
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:09 pm

The Governor-General has resigned: https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/marie-heneins-firm-hired-by-top-bureaucrat-as-tensions-rise-over-julie-payettes-alleged-toxic-workplace

This came about after a report showed Rideau Hall to be a particularly toxic workplace.
Last edited by Shrillland on Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nilokeras
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Postby Nilokeras » Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:15 pm



The more I read about this case the more it seems like a pretty remarkable failure of vetting on the Liberals' part - in both her other previous jobs she was apparently given golden parachutes after the emergence of allegations of abuse. Which is not exactly surprising considering the Liberals' governing principle since 2015 has been sloppiness in all they do.

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