China Separating Kids from their Parents

[Mik Jer Amear]

While the two cases are be motivated by different things, but this sadly feels similar to what the US is doing with Mexican families. It's all heartbreaking and rooted in some form of bigotry.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Religion in general is a cancer, but Islam especially so. Any country where it has become popular has been ruined by it... Saudi Arabia is a cesspool of beheadings, Iraq is a cesspool of sectarian violence, Iran is a cesspool of unlawful seizures of foreign ships, etc.

What China's doing is a bit extreme, but we need to stop pretending all religions are equal.

[Gormwood]

Religion in general is a cancer, but Islam especially so. Any country where it has become popular has been ruined by it... Saudi Arabia is a cesspool of beheadings, Iraq is a cesspool of sectarian violence, Iran is a cesspool of unlawful seizures of foreign ships, etc.

What China's doing is a bit extreme, but we need to stop pretending all religions are equal.

Saudi Arabia is a cesspool of beheadings solely because of Islam and the royal House of Saud is totally pure and not corrupt, Iraq was always like that because of Islam and not because American invasion destroyed existing government and bungled the aftermath, and Iran was always like that because of Islam and not because Donnie pulled out of the nuclear deal like a porn star he was fucking then slapped crippling tariffs to say "Kiss my ass you Kenyan nigger" to the previous President who brokered it and gave the radicals in the Iranian government an excuse to ho apeshit.

...Sure.

What are the odds you wish the U.S. would take pages from China and Myanmar on what to do with American Muslims?

[Jolthig]

Religion in general is a cancer, but Islam especially so. Any country where it has become popular has been ruined by it... Saudi Arabia is a cesspool of beheadings, Iraq is a cesspool of sectarian violence, Iran is a cesspool of unlawful seizures of foreign ships, etc.

What China's doing is a bit extreme, but we need to stop pretending all religions are equal.

And yet, these countries you mention are an exaggeration of what Muhammad taught. Also, Islam preaches to love one's neighbor, being kind to ones parents, the poor, and kindred. And there is no compulsion in faith. All of what I mentioned is what I practice through Islam Ahmadiyya.

Islam is pretty moderate from my observations. To say it is extreme is a complete strawman of the faith.

[Bear Stearns]

Religion in general is a cancer, but Islam especially so. Any country where it has become popular has been ruined by it... Saudi Arabia is a cesspool of beheadings, Iraq is a cesspool of sectarian violence, Iran is a cesspool of unlawful seizures of foreign ships, etc.

What China's doing is a bit extreme, but we need to stop pretending all religions are equal.

Saudi Arabia is a cesspool of beheadings solely because of Islam and the royal House of Saud is totally pure and not corrupt, Iraq was always like that because of Islam and not because American invasion destroyed existing government and bungled the aftermath, and Iran was always like that because of Islam and not because Donnie pulled out of the nuclear deal like a porn star he was fucking then slapped crippling tariffs to say "Kiss my ass you Kenyan nigger" to the previous President who brokered it and gave the radicals in the Iranian government an excuse to ho apeshit.

...Sure.

What are the odds you wish the U.S. would take pages from China and Myanmar on what to do with American Muslims?

Do you really believe your own bullshit?

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Religion in general is a cancer, but Islam especially so. Any country where it has become popular has been ruined by it... Saudi Arabia is a cesspool of beheadings, Iraq is a cesspool of sectarian violence, Iran is a cesspool of unlawful seizures of foreign ships, etc.

What China's doing is a bit extreme, but we need to stop pretending all religions are equal.

And yet, these countries you mention are an exaggeration of what Muhammad taught. Also, Islam preaches to love one's neighbor, being kind to ones parents, the poor, and kindred. And there is no compulsion in faith. All of what I mentioned is what I practice through Islam Ahmadiyya.

Islam is pretty moderate from my observations. To say it is extreme is a complete strawman of the faith.

What Islam preaches cannot be defined in and of itself any more than what Christianity teaches, as the Qur'an, like the Bible, is a jumbled-up mess of contradiction.

Muslim countries may differ vastly from each other, but they're generally worse off than the first world, and they generally have Islam in common. In the absence of a Qur'an without contradictions, that's the only thing by which Islam can be judged.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Religion in general is a cancer, but Islam especially so. Any country where it has become popular has been ruined by it... Saudi Arabia is a cesspool of beheadings, Iraq is a cesspool of sectarian violence, Iran is a cesspool of unlawful seizures of foreign ships, etc.

What China's doing is a bit extreme, but we need to stop pretending all religions are equal.

Saudi Arabia is a cesspool of beheadings solely because of Islam and the royal House of Saud is totally pure and not corrupt, Iraq was always like that because of Islam and not because American invasion destroyed existing government and bungled the aftermath, and Iran was always like that because of Islam and not because Donnie pulled out of the nuclear deal like a porn star he was fucking then slapped crippling tariffs to say "Kiss my ass you Kenyan nigger" to the previous President who brokered it and gave the radicals in the Iranian government an excuse to ho apeshit.

And yet, all 3 countries have the factor of Islam in common. Funny how that works out.

[Jolthig]

And yet, these countries you mention are an exaggeration of what Muhammad taught. Also, Islam preaches to love one's neighbor, being kind to ones parents, the poor, and kindred. And there is no compulsion in faith. All of what I mentioned is what I practice through Islam Ahmadiyya.

Islam is pretty moderate from my observations. To say it is extreme is a complete strawman of the faith.

What Islam preaches cannot be defined in and of itself any more than what Christianity teaches, as the Qur'an, like the Bible, is a jumbled-up mess of contradiction.

Muslim countries may differ vastly from each other, but they're generally worse off than the first world, and they generally have Islam in common. In the absence of a Qur'an without contradictions, that's the only thing by which Islam can be judged.

Can you point out one cobtradiction in the Quran?

They may have Islam in common, but as with Christian nations in the past, they exaggerate and misrepresent the original teachings by fighting one another, being partisan about their views, and killing innocents. Those who seek to reform them are persecuted or killed like Ahmadis for example.

[Gormwood]

Saudi Arabia is a cesspool of beheadings solely because of Islam and the royal House of Saud is totally pure and not corrupt, Iraq was always like that because of Islam and not because American invasion destroyed existing government and bungled the aftermath, and Iran was always like that because of Islam and not because Donnie pulled out of the nuclear deal like a porn star he was fucking then slapped crippling tariffs to say "Kiss my ass you Kenyan nigger" to the previous President who brokered it and gave the radicals in the Iranian government an excuse to ho apeshit.

And yet, all 3 countries have the factor of Islam in common. Funny how that works out.

Your deductive reasoning is spectacular.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

What Islam preaches cannot be defined in and of itself any more than what Christianity teaches, as the Qur'an, like the Bible, is a jumbled-up mess of contradiction.

Muslim countries may differ vastly from each other, but they're generally worse off than the first world, and they generally have Islam in common. In the absence of a Qur'an without contradictions, that's the only thing by which Islam can be judged.

Can you point out one cobtradiction in the Quran?

They may have Islam in common, but as with Christian nations in the past, they exaggerate and misrepresent the original teachings by fighting one another, being partisan about their views, and killing innocents. Those who seek to reform them are persecuted or killed like Ahmadis for example.

I could point out more than one.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Qur%27anic_contradictions

The point is, Islam's ill effect on countries where it is popular has lasted centuries later than Christianity's, suggesting it is even more harmful than Christianity is. This is not to say that Christianity is the ideal alternative, (though if it came down to having to choose between the two I'd choose Christianity) just there for perspective on the level of harm done.

And yet, all 3 countries have the factor of Islam in common. Funny how that works out.

Your deductive reasoning is spectacular.

No rebuttal, huh?

[Jolthig]

Can you point out one cobtradiction in the Quran?

They may have Islam in common, but as with Christian nations in the past, they exaggerate and misrepresent the original teachings by fighting one another, being partisan about their views, and killing innocents. Those who seek to reform them are persecuted or killed like Ahmadis for example.

I could point out more than one.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Qur%27anic_contradictions

The point is, Islam's ill effect on countries where it is popular has lasted centuries later than Christianity's, suggesting it is even more harmful than Christianity is. This is not to say that Christianity is the ideal alternative, (though if it came down to having to choose between the two I'd choose Christianity) just there for perspective on the level of harm done.

Your deductive reasoning is spectacular.

No rebuttal, huh?

I'd prefer you provide your own. But nevertheless, I debunked another article back in April of last year that did a similar thing as Rational Wiki by Answering Islam. My first two rebuttals are in this fact book and you may review them and challenge me on them if you think I am wrong. I do not have time at this time to refute everything by rational wiki, however perhaps the allegations raised by Answering Islam may be similar to RationalWiki which my rebuttal should suffice:

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=jol ... id=1119209

See "Reaponse to Cuprum/answering islam" parts 1 and 2.

The rest of your response is simply repeating your premises stated earlier.

[Gormwood]

Your deductive reasoning is spectacular.

No rebuttal, huh?

A serious rebuttal for a farcical "bad countries are majority Muslim ergo Islam Is Bad" attempt to equate correlation with causation is undeserved.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

No rebuttal, huh?

A serious rebuttal for a farcical "bad countries are majority Muslim ergo Islam Is Bad" attempt to equate correlation with causation is undeserved.

Anyone can say that about anything.

"A serious rebuttal for the notion that bears shit in the woods is undeserved!"

Such a statement means nothing.

Jolthig had the relatively more meaningful response. I must admit that it's more out of laziness than anything else that I'm not inclined to read through the entirety of his link right now. (Even so, I'm considering doing so later on.) All I can say is, like with other religions, Islam has scriptures full of contradictions. Like with other religions, Islam has legions of avid apologists absolutely convinced that there's always an explanation for those contradictions, other than their religion being made up, not by God but by flawed human beings who couldn't even keep their own story straight. But if the general pattern is that this applies across religions, does that not suggest that a personal bias against admitting your own religion is inconsistent is more likely than said rationalizations?

[Jolthig]

A serious rebuttal for a farcical "bad countries are majority Muslim ergo Islam Is Bad" attempt to equate correlation with causation is undeserved.

Anyone can say that about anything.

"A serious rebuttal for the notion that bears shit in the woods is undeserved!"

Such a statement means nothing.

Jolthig had the relatively more meaningful response. I must admit that it's more out of laziness than anything else that I'm not inclined to read through the entirety of his link right now. (Even so, I'm considering doing so later on.) All I can say is, like with other religions, Islam has scriptures full of contradictions. Like with other religions, Islam has legions of avid apologists absolutely convinced that there's always an explanation for those contradictions, other than their religion being made up, not by God but by flawed human beings who couldn't even keep their own story straight. But if the general pattern is that this applies across religions, does that not suggest that a personal bias against admitting your own religion is inconsistent is more likely than said rationalizations?

Every single human being has a bias one way or another. It is impossible to escape from bias. However, that doesn't mean the points that a person brings up isn't relevant. What you say regarding Islam is completely inaccurate. It is a fact that the companions of Muhammad were very reliable narrators who had excellent memories and were known to be truthful. Given these narrations, once can easily cross reference them, to pinpoint that these events are accurate. They lend big support to the truthfulness and consistency of the Quran, and the events behind the verses.

[Othelos]

And this is news how? They have been doing so for a very long time.

As china gains power, its role in the world and actions are gaining more scrutiny.

[Qara-Tumen Khanate]

Xinjiang and Greater Turkistan, I have some familiarity with them through my university studies and friends living in China, both Uighur and Han.

All Uighur people do not look alike, some seem Turkic, but some look quite Han and are mistaken by state patrolmen in Urumqi for Han.

My thought, the New Silk Road project, currently being implemented across China, including Xinjiang but not limited to the far west, has disturbed the way of things in Xinjiang and lies close to the root of the problems. Of course, there are plenty if other factors, including Saudi money flowing into Xinjiang's Islamic communities, promoting Wahhabism.

Contrary to what is heard in America, the Chinese government is just as incompetent as the United States. Just as likely to screw things up, have bureaucrats problems, and deep functionalism.

We dont have the best idea of what is going on in Xinjiang, and what American media posts is often little more than what American intelligence agencies give them. Its unfortunately very common, for all our claims of an independent and unbiased press.

The restrictions in Xinjiang I have heard from friends are very strange, usually around the specifically language used in signs and public displays. I haven't spoken to anyone who knows someone who has been sent to a reeducation camp or had their children taken away. Then again, my Weibo buds are in Urumqi and not Khotan or Kashgar.

[Rojava Free State]

The CCP, guys who are supposedly communists even though they treat workers like shit and basically practice ethnic genocide, two things communism is supposed to be against

In other words, they repurposed an existing system to protect their desire for power at the expense of the many. They aren't even evil for allegedly being communists. They're just evil

[Rojava Free State]

Xinjiang and Greater Turkistan, I have some familiarity with them through my university studies and friends living in China, both Uighur and Han.

All Uighur people do not look alike, some seem Turkic, but some look quite Han and are mistaken by state patrolmen in Urumqi for Han.

My thought, the New Silk Road project, currently being implemented across China, including Xinjiang but not limited to the far west, has disturbed the way of things in Xinjiang and lies close to the root of the problems. Of course, there are plenty if other factors, including Saudi money flowing into Xinjiang's Islamic communities, promoting Wahhabism.

Contrary to what is heard in America, the Chinese government is just as incompetent as the United States. Just as likely to screw things up, have bureaucrats problems, and deep functionalism.

We dont have the best idea of what is going on in Xinjiang, and what American media posts is often little more than what American intelligence agencies give them. Its unfortunately very common, for all our claims of an independent and unbiased press.

The restrictions in Xinjiang I have heard from friends are very strange, usually around the specifically language used in signs and public displays. I haven't spoken to anyone who knows someone who has been sent to a reeducation camp or had their children taken away. Then again, my Weibo buds are in Urumqi and not Khotan or Kashgar.

No one told you about it because anyone who could possibly know is either in hiding or has been taken away too

[Rojava Free State]

Xinjiang and Greater Turkistan, I have some familiarity with them through my university studies and friends living in China, both Uighur and Han.

All Uighur people do not look alike, some seem Turkic, but some look quite Han and are mistaken by state patrolmen in Urumqi for Han.

My thought, the New Silk Road project, currently being implemented across China, including Xinjiang but not limited to the far west, has disturbed the way of things in Xinjiang and lies close to the root of the problems. Of course, there are plenty if other factors, including Saudi money flowing into Xinjiang's Islamic communities, promoting Wahhabism.

Contrary to what is heard in America, the Chinese government is just as incompetent as the United States. Just as likely to screw things up, have bureaucrats problems, and deep functionalism.

We dont have the best idea of what is going on in Xinjiang, and what American media posts is often little more than what American intelligence agencies give them. Its unfortunately very common, for all our claims of an independent and unbiased press.

The restrictions in Xinjiang I have heard from friends are very strange, usually around the specifically language used in signs and public displays. I haven't spoken to anyone who knows someone who has been sent to a reeducation camp or had their children taken away. Then again, my Weibo buds are in Urumqi and not Khotan or Kashgar.

No one told you about it because anyone who could possibly know is either in hiding or has been taken away too

[Rojava Free State]

Xinjiang and Greater Turkistan, I have some familiarity with them through my university studies and friends living in China, both Uighur and Han.

All Uighur people do not look alike, some seem Turkic, but some look quite Han and are mistaken by state patrolmen in Urumqi for Han.

My thought, the New Silk Road project, currently being implemented across China, including Xinjiang but not limited to the far west, has disturbed the way of things in Xinjiang and lies close to the root of the problems. Of course, there are plenty if other factors, including Saudi money flowing into Xinjiang's Islamic communities, promoting Wahhabism.

Contrary to what is heard in America, the Chinese government is just as incompetent as the United States. Just as likely to screw things up, have bureaucrats problems, and deep functionalism.

We dont have the best idea of what is going on in Xinjiang, and what American media posts is often little more than what American intelligence agencies give them. Its unfortunately very common, for all our claims of an independent and unbiased press.

The restrictions in Xinjiang I have heard from friends are very strange, usually around the specifically language used in signs and public displays. I haven't spoken to anyone who knows someone who has been sent to a reeducation camp or had their children taken away. Then again, my Weibo buds are in Urumqi and not Khotan or Kashgar.

No one told you about it because anyone who could possibly know is either in hiding or has been taken away too

[Qara-Tumen Khanate]

Possibly. It's something I have considered. I am not claiming to have all the answers, I simply dont trust American media to accurately report on the issue. I would hate to be wrong, these people I love and feel a deep passion for, but perhaps I have been blinded by mistrust. In Urumqi, people are regularly stopped and searched, jailed, yet how does that differ from the daily life of Black Americans? Its injustice in either case, gross injustice. If someone were in hiding, I would hope they had a VPN, not something difficult to get even if they are illegal.

[Rojava Free State]

Possibly. It's something I have considered. I am not claiming to have all the answers, I simply dont trust American media to accurately report on the issue. I would hate to be wrong, these people I love and feel a deep passion for, but perhaps I have been blinded by mistrust. In Urumqi, people are regularly stopped and searched, jailed, yet how does that differ from the daily life of Black Americans? Its injustice in either case, gross injustice. If someone were in hiding, I would hope they had a VPN, not something difficult to get even if they are illegal.

In the case of both the CCP and the US, the issue is that you have a group of elites who aren't interested in sharing power, and who have refused to let go of authoritarianism also because they've failed their people. The solution to both is to get rid of the government and replace it

[Antityranicals]

Possibly. It's something I have considered. I am not claiming to have all the answers, I simply dont trust American media to accurately report on the issue. I would hate to be wrong, these people I love and feel a deep passion for, but perhaps I have been blinded by mistrust. In Urumqi, people are regularly stopped and searched, jailed, yet how does that differ from the daily life of Black Americans? Its injustice in either case, gross injustice. If someone were in hiding, I would hope they had a VPN, not something difficult to get even if they are illegal.

In the case of both the CCP and the US, the issue is that you have a group of elites who aren't interested in sharing power, and who have refused to let go of authoritarianism also because they've failed their people. The solution to both is to get rid of the government and replace it

Why replace it? If you're going to go through all the trouble of getting rid of the government, why not just enjoy living without government coercion? The only reason I'm not totally an anarchist is because it's impractical. But once you've managed to do away with the government, just let the free market and private property do miracles...

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

In the case of both the CCP and the US, the issue is that you have a group of elites who aren't interested in sharing power, and who have refused to let go of authoritarianism also because they've failed their people. The solution to both is to get rid of the government and replace it

Why replace it? If you're going to go through all the trouble of getting rid of the government, why not just enjoy living without government coercion? The only reason I'm not totally an anarchist is because it's impractical. But once you've managed to do away with the government, just let the free market and private property do miracles...

Ten bitcoin says that the end result of anarchy here is going to be the same end result that anarchy has had everywhere else: autocracy if not outright totalitarianism.

[Rojava Free State]

In the case of both the CCP and the US, the issue is that you have a group of elites who aren't interested in sharing power, and who have refused to let go of authoritarianism also because they've failed their people. The solution to both is to get rid of the government and replace it

Why replace it? If you're going to go through all the trouble of getting rid of the government, why not just enjoy living without government coercion? The only reason I'm not totally an anarchist is because it's impractical. But once you've managed to do away with the government, just let the free market and private property do miracles...

We replace it with a small government that devolves power to local levels. Most decisions in our towns should be made on the part of the towns. They federal government should only provide defense of our nation and a few other necessary functions. Beyond that, it's time to bring federalism back and really become a more self reliant nation

Just like you, I'm a borderline anarchist who only hasn't called himself one because I'm debating whether or not we need a nation state and not just local communities.