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Nike pulls Betsy Ross flag shoes for 4th of July

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The Niben
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Nike pulls Betsy Ross flag shoes for 4th of July

Postby The Niben » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:26 pm

Full title: Nike pulls Betsy Ross flag shoes for 4th of July after Kaepernick complains, social media battle ensues, Nike loses deal with the state of Arizona, Twitter lights itself on fire, etc, etc, yadda yadda yadda.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48840608

The BBC wrote: Nike has pulled a range of trainers in a row over racist symbolism that means the US sportswear giant could lose financial aid for a new factory.

The trainers featuring an early version of the US flag drew complaints, including reportedly from Nike-sponsored sportsman Colin Kaepernick.

The footwear, now selling on the StockX trainer website for $1,500, features a flag embraced by white nationalists.

But Nike's withdrawal was condemned by some Americans as unpatriotic.

The special edition Air Max 1 Quick Strike Fourth of July trainers feature the The Betsy Ross flag. With a circle of 13 stars, the flag was created during the American Revolution but was later adopted for use by the American Nazi party.

Mr Kaepernick, a former NFL star, reportedly told Nike that he found the flag offensive because of its connection to the era of slavery.

Last year, he became the face of Nike's advertisement marking the 30th anniversary of the company's "Just Do It" slogan.

The former American football quarterback had previously sparked a furore by kneeling during games to protest against police violence against African-Americans.

"Nike has chosen not to release the Air Max 1 Quick Strike Fourth of July as it featured the old version of the American flag," a Nike spokesperson said. The firm has asked retailers to return the shoes.

But the decision has sparked fury.

Doug Ducey, the Republican governor of Arizona, said on Twitter that he had ordered financial incentives for Nike to invest in a multi-million dollar factory in Goodyear City to be stopped. The factory was expected to generate about 500 jobs.

"Words cannot express my disappointment at this terrible decision. I am embarrassed for Nike," Mr Ducey said in a series of tweets.

"Instead of celebrating American history the week of our nation's independence, Nike has apparently decided that Betsy Ross is unworthy, and has bowed to the current onslaught of political correctness and historical revisionism," he said.

Texas Senator Ted Cruz dismissed Nike's move as unpatriotic, writing on Twitter that the shoe giant "only wants to sell sneakers to people who hate the American flag".

Other Twitter users called for a boycott of Nike products over the move.

However, some Twitter users pointed out that the flag had been used by white nationalists.

Matt Powell, senior industry adviser at the research and consultancy group NPD, said said Nike would probably find support among its core consumers.

"I think it's important to understand who Nike's core demographic is here. They're really focused on teens and looking at the commentary on Twitter and so forth, I don't see a lot of teens coming out with a negative attitude here," he said.


TL;DR: So here's the scoop. Nike was going to release some shoes for Independence Day with the 13-star colonial American flag, yknow, the Betsy Ross one. Apparently (and I didn't know this until today), this flag is also used by white nationalists? So Colin Kaepernick complained. Nike pulled the shoe in response, which made a lot of people angry- I'm going to guess mostly conservatives- and a lot of people happy- mostly liberals. Ted Cruz is boycotting Nike. So is the Governor of Arizona. In other news, Vans salesmen are reported to be rubbing their hands together with glee.

What do you think? Personally, it's kind of just... sad. I'm not angry, but then again, I wear nothing but Converse anyway. While I usually agree with Kaepernick vis a vis the flag protests and his social activism, I have to go with some of the conservatives on this one. It's getting to the point where historical revisionism is trumping common sensibilities. Whether or not the Betsy Ross story is true (just like Washington and the Cherry Tree), the thirteen star flag is something very special to a country that looks to its past for inspiration. When activists start to say that the use of the flag is unacceptable because of its association with a time when slavery existed, it begins to set a precedent of writing off the first ninety years of the country's history. And that's what I'm seeing now. I always try to give due consideration to these issues- is my perspective different because I'm white? Sure. And I've found myself initially disagreeing with a lot of progressive backlashes and later coming around to see the point. But the more this goes on, the more I start to feel like society is just giving up on preserving things that radical minorities have tried to appropriate. The Betsy Ross flag has immense symbolism in it that represents the American fight for freedom against the tyranny of the British crown. And we should be taking in everything from that- the goods and the bads, the democracy and the disenfranchisement. I'm not a fan of slippery slope arguments, but this one seems to be fulfilling itself.

Anyway, discuss.
Last edited by The Niben on Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Rojava Free State » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:29 pm

Nothing screams that you're a snowflake more than when the flag of the 13 colonies is literally racist as hell in your mind

Well, acrually, there are some things such as for example "pepe is racist, milk is a symbol of white supremacism, criticizing Israel is antisemitic." Those tropes are more ridiculous but still, seriously cap?
Last edited by Rojava Free State on Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Grinning Dragon » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:31 pm

Dumb!
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Postby Nuclear Wastelands » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:32 pm

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Postby Greater Cesnica » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:33 pm

Imagine thinking the Betsy Ross is racist omegalul
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Postby USS Monitor » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:34 pm

It's kind of sad that people think that is racist, given that the original use of the flag was totally unrelated to race issues and it is still in widespread use as a general patriotic symbol. That flag is very common in New England as a way to celebrate Revolutionary War history, totally unrelated to any use by white nationalists. I don't think it has any stronger racial connotations than the modern US flag does.

That said, Nike is a private company and they have the right to decide what they want their product line to look like.
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Postby Vassenor » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:34 pm

Remember, slavery isn't racist. :roll:
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Postby The Niben » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:38 pm

I think the bigger tragedy is that the reactions are going down party lines and only contributing to the nasty partisan divide of America. Suddenly every Democrat must toe the line and agree that "this is racist now!", and every Republican must agree that this represents an existential threat to American identity, and the only solution is to boycott Nike.

... again.

There's no middle ground. I hate to knock Kaep, because he's done a great job of raising awareness for very important things, but this is really the least important thing he could have brought up at a time like this.

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Postby Grinning Dragon » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:38 pm

Vassenor wrote:Remember, slavery isn't racist. :roll:

And? No one ever said only racists are slavers
White privilege is the belief that white people are responsible for the acts of their ancestors by people who accept no responsibility for the acts of their children.
Gun control advocates suffer from psychological projection -“defending themselves against their own unpleasant impulses by denying their existence while attributing them to others." ; “State Law cannot authorize the violation of Federal Rights”-Justice Alito
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:38 pm

Vassenor wrote:Remember, slavery isn't racist. :roll:


The Betsy Ross flag is not racist. That's like saying the Libyan flag promotes slavery. Does it? Does the fact that there is a literal slave trade taking place in Libya have any correlation with the flag of Libya? No. Was the Betsy Ross flag used by racists/slave-owners? Absolutely. Does the inherent meaning of the Betsy Ross flag construe slavery? Hell no.

USS Monitor wrote:It's kind of sad that people think that is racist, given that the original use of the flag was totally unrelated to race issues and it is still in widespread use as a general patriotic symbol. That flag is very common in New England as a way to celebrate Revolutionary War history, totally unrelated to any use by white nationalists. I don't think it has any stronger racial connotations than the modern US flag does.

That said, Nike is a private company and they have the right to decide what they want their product line to look like.


True, but there is still the negative backlash they'll receive from this move.
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Postby Gormwood » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:41 pm

In a country where people claim to prize free speech, the message is "Kaepernick must STFU".
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Postby Estanglia » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:41 pm

It's up to Nike to decide what they want to do in regards to the shoes. If they want to pull them, that's up to them.

Though I find the controversy around it dumb.

Vassenor wrote:Remember, slavery isn't racist. :roll:


Because the flag totally, entirely and exclusively represents slavery. Right. No alternate uses at all. None. No possible way for the flag to not represent slavery.
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Postby Cetacea » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:41 pm

so who is Betsy Ross?

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Postby USS Monitor » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:42 pm

Vassenor wrote:Remember, slavery isn't racist. :roll:


That flag isn't about slavery. Abolishing slavery at the state level was one of the first things New England states did after the Revolution, but we still use that flag as a symbol of regional pride because of our role in the Revolution.
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Postby Grinning Dragon » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:42 pm

Gormwood wrote:In a country where people claim to prize free speech, the message is "Kaepernick must STFU".

He got his free speech and those who are telling kap to shut up are also free to do so.
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Gun control advocates suffer from psychological projection -“defending themselves against their own unpleasant impulses by denying their existence while attributing them to others." ; “State Law cannot authorize the violation of Federal Rights”-Justice Alito
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Postby Bear Stearns » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:43 pm

Gormwood wrote:In a country where people claim to prize free speech, the message is "Kaepernick must STFU".


Are people not allowed to exercise their freedom of speech by telling him to shut up? Keapernick is a multimillionaire celebrity who appears to have a Fortune 500 company's ear. He seems like he's pretty powerful.

How is Middle America telling him to be quiet threatening his freedom of speech?
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Postby USS Monitor » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:43 pm

The Niben wrote:I think the bigger tragedy is that the reactions are going down party lines and only contributing to the nasty partisan divide of America. Suddenly every Democrat must toe the line and agree that "this is racist now!", and every Republican must agree that this represents an existential threat to American identity, and the only solution is to boycott Nike.

... again.

There's no middle ground. I hate to knock Kaep, because he's done a great job of raising awareness for very important things, but this is really the least important thing he could have brought up at a time like this.


Yeah, I didn't mind his kneeling thing, but this is just oversensitive.
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Postby Bear Stearns » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:43 pm

Gotta say, I'm surprised he even knows who Betsy Ross is.
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Postby Bear Stearns » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:44 pm

Vassenor wrote:Remember, slavery isn't racist. :roll:


What is the relation to slavery?
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:46 pm

USS Monitor wrote:
The Niben wrote:I think the bigger tragedy is that the reactions are going down party lines and only contributing to the nasty partisan divide of America. Suddenly every Democrat must toe the line and agree that "this is racist now!", and every Republican must agree that this represents an existential threat to American identity, and the only solution is to boycott Nike.

... again.

There's no middle ground. I hate to knock Kaep, because he's done a great job of raising awareness for very important things, but this is really the least important thing he could have brought up at a time like this.


Yeah, I didn't mind his kneeling thing, but this is just oversensitive.

I just find it extremely ironic that Kaep is going after the Betsy Ross but he isn't doing anything about the staggering rates of poverty and crime in Detroit, Chicago, and Cleveland among other cities among the African-American youth. Especially since with his worth of $20 million in 2018 he could have easily donated huge sums of that to charitable causes for Black Youth or even opened up his own organization.
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Postby The South Falls » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:46 pm

The alt-right can't appropriate everything. We must take it back from them.
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Postby The Black Forrest » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:47 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
Gormwood wrote:In a country where people claim to prize free speech, the message is "Kaepernick must STFU".


Are people not allowed to exercise their freedom of speech by telling him to shut up? Keapernick is a multimillionaire celebrity who appears to have a Fortune 500 company's ear. He seems like he's pretty powerful.

How is Middle America telling him to be quiet threatening his freedom of speech?


STFU Bear Sterns. We know what you did in the crisis! :p

I have to read on this more as I have only just heard about it.

The kneeling protest was appropriate. This seems oversensitive for him and even Nike.
Last edited by The Black Forrest on Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:47 pm

The South Falls wrote:The alt-right can't appropriate everything. We must take it back from them.

The Betsy Ross is not an alt-right symbol lmao
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Postby The Black Forrest » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:49 pm

Greater Cesnica wrote:
The South Falls wrote:The alt-right can't appropriate everything. We must take it back from them.

The Betsy Ross is not an alt-right symbol lmao


Shhhh! They might hear you!
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:50 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Greater Cesnica wrote:The Betsy Ross is not an alt-right symbol lmao


Shhhh! They might hear you!

Oh right, they might actually think I'm using reverse psychology.
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