The Practice of Law

[Ifreann]

I'm a workaholic.

I never take time off.

Less so in my geographical area. At least, the billable hour requirements are considerably lower.


I've done that for other work. Never bothered me.

...is this not already the case in professional life?

Ooh, guess which type I am!

I like those documents, honestly.


Cant handle the heat, get out of the kitchen, right?


My favorite parts of practice are the research and writing.

And taking other's money.


Hearings and trials are a rush for me, but, again, I thrive on conflict. Hostility is fun for me. Even over procedural matters. I spent much of my high school and undergraduate extracurricular work doing performance, musical and theatrical. I have no stage fright issues anymore.

Frankly, people who lack this temperament confuse me. You're dooming yourself to second best if you're not constantly striving to push your limits.

well, more power to you if it works for you (and I hope it keeps working)

however, it did not end well for me and I hope that at least one person participating in this thread reconsiders their life and comes out better for it

I'd say unless you're a super aggressive workaholic Type A, don't go for law at all because it has all the worst characteristics of the office work environment combined

Did you say you never take time off? How do you manage?

Cocaine, obviously.

[Big Jim P]

In principle, simple, easy to understand law is a great idea. It will never fly though as it would put politicians and lawyers out of work.

[Kernen]

I'm a workaholic.

I never take time off.

Less so in my geographical area. At least, the billable hour requirements are considerably lower.


I've done that for other work. Never bothered me.

...is this not already the case in professional life?

Ooh, guess which type I am!

I like those documents, honestly.


Cant handle the heat, get out of the kitchen, right?


My favorite parts of practice are the research and writing.

And taking other's money.


Hearings and trials are a rush for me, but, again, I thrive on conflict. Hostility is fun for me. Even over procedural matters. I spent much of my high school and undergraduate extracurricular work doing performance, musical and theatrical. I have no stage fright issues anymore.

Frankly, people who lack this temperament confuse me. You're dooming yourself to second best if you're not constantly striving to push your limits.

well, more power to you if it works for you (and I hope it keeps working)

however, it did not end well for me and I hope that at least one person participating in this thread reconsiders their life and comes out better for it

I'd say unless you're a super aggressive workaholic Type A, don't go for law at all because it has all the worst characteristics of the office work environment combined

Did you say you never take time off? How do you manage?

I operate best at a higher level of stress than that which most people want to routinely operate. Honestly, if I have more than a long weekend without work, I self destruct. Like, I start spinning into malaise and boredom and eventually outright depression. Work, especially legal work, keeps my brain sharp and keeps me driven.
Even something active but relaxing like a travel vacation has a pretty hard limit of enjoyment.

Conflict and stress are my drug, and I can't go long without a hit, I guess.

[Ifreann]

In principle, simple, easy to understand law is a great idea. It will never fly though as it would put politicians and lawyers out of work.

And it would be grossly inadequate for modern society, as has been illustrated.

[Attempted Socialism]

In principle, simple, easy to understand law is a great idea. It will never fly though as it would put politicians and lawyers out of work.

Quite frankly it would put society out of work. Laws are there because our population became too large for inter-personal or familial bonds to regulate behaviour, and our societies thrived. Laws are part of the institutional complex that makes our current food production viable, for instance. Remove the laws and one of the institutional pillars on which we have built society will be gone.

[Ethel mermania]

In principle, simple, easy to understand law is a great idea. It will never fly though as it would put politicians and lawyers out of work.

Quite frankly it would put society out of work. Laws are there because our population became too large for inter-personal or familial bonds to regulate behaviour, and our societies thrived. Laws are part of the institutional complex that makes our current food production viable, for instance. Remove the laws and one of the institutional pillars on which we have built society will be gone.

Jim isnt saying get rid of the law, he is saying that it sh0uld be understandable to most people.

[Infected Mushroom]

well, more power to you if it works for you (and I hope it keeps working)

however, it did not end well for me and I hope that at least one person participating in this thread reconsiders their life and comes out better for it

I'd say unless you're a super aggressive workaholic Type A, don't go for law at all because it has all the worst characteristics of the office work environment combined

Did you say you never take time off? How do you manage?

I operate best at a higher level of stress than that which most people want to routinely operate. Honestly, if I have more than a long weekend without work, I self destruct. Like, I start spinning into malaise and boredom and eventually outright depression. Work, especially legal work, keeps my brain sharp and keeps me driven.
Even something active but relaxing like a travel vacation has a pretty hard limit of enjoyment.

Conflict and stress are my drug, and I can't go long without a hit, I guess.

Are you telling me that you actually get a POSITIVE CHARGE from conflict with hostile clients and hostile counsel 24/7?

You enjoy passive aggressiveness?

[Ifreann]

Quite frankly it would put society out of work. Laws are there because our population became too large for inter-personal or familial bonds to regulate behaviour, and our societies thrived. Laws are part of the institutional complex that makes our current food production viable, for instance. Remove the laws and one of the institutional pillars on which we have built society will be gone.

Jim isnt saying get rid of the law, he is saying that it sh0uld be understandable to most people.

It is understandable to most people, if they'd learn how to understand it.

[Chan Island]

For full disclosure (since this is apparently important to IM but I didn't mention this), while I am not currently looking into becoming a lawyer myself, I have been undergoing the process of volunteering as a magistrate (welcome to Britain) in a court near me. So I better not be overtly hostile to lawyers or I don't think I'll be asked very often to rule on cases.

[Infected Mushroom]

For full disclosure (since this is apparently important to IM but I didn't mention this), while I am not currently looking into becoming a lawyer myself, I have been undergoing the process of volunteering as a magistrate (welcome to Britain) in a court near me. So I better not be overtly hostile to lawyers or I don't think I'll be asked very often to rule on cases.

you can volunteer as a judge in Britain????

[The New California Republic]

For full disclosure (since this is apparently important to IM but I didn't mention this), while I am not currently looking into becoming a lawyer myself, I have been undergoing the process of volunteering as a magistrate (welcome to Britain) in a court near me. So I better not be overtly hostile to lawyers or I don't think I'll be asked very often to rule on cases.

you can volunteer as a judge in Britain????

Who can be a magistrate
You need to give up some of your spare time and not everyone can serve as a magistrate.

Qualifications
You don’t need formal qualifications or legal training to become a magistrate.

You will get full training for the role, and a legal adviser in court will help you with questions about the law.

Age
You have to be over 18 and under 65.

Magistrates must retire at 70 and are normally expected to serve for at least 5 years.

Health
You need to be able to hear clearly, with or without a hearing aid, to listen to a case.

You also need to be able to sit and concentrate for long periods of time.

Personal qualities
You need to show you’ve got the right personal qualities, for example that you are:

aware of social issues
mature, understand people and have a sense of fairness
reliable and committed to serving the community
You also need to be able to:

understand documents, follow evidence and communicate effectively
think logically, weigh up arguments and reach a fair decision
Good character
It’s unlikely you’ll be taken on if you have been:

found guilty of a serious crime
found guilty of a number of minor offences
banned from driving in the past 5 to 10 years
declared bankrupt
Conflicts of interest
You can’t be a magistrate if you work in one of a small number of jobs where there could be a conflict of interest - for instance if you are a police officer.
https://www.gov.uk/become-magistrate/ca ... magistrate

[Chan Island]

For full disclosure (since this is apparently important to IM but I didn't mention this), while I am not currently looking into becoming a lawyer myself, I have been undergoing the process of volunteering as a magistrate (welcome to Britain) in a court near me. So I better not be overtly hostile to lawyers or I don't think I'll be asked very often to rule on cases.

you can volunteer as a judge in Britain????

Not a judge, but a magistrate, which is a little bit different.

But in the spirit of Purplia, yes.

[Ethel mermania]

Jim isnt saying get rid of the law, he is saying that it sh0uld be understandable to most people.

It is understandable to most people, if they'd learn how to understand it.

Not in this country.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

It is understandable to most people, if they'd learn how to understand it.

Not in this country.

It’s an advantage civil law countries have over common law ones. Statute law is generally easier understood than jurisprudence.

[Ifreann]

It is understandable to most people, if they'd learn how to understand it.

Not in this country.

And yet you have a thriving legal industry. Clearly understanding the law is not beyond the capabilities of the Common American Human.

[Ethel mermania]

Not in this country.

And yet you have a thriving legal industry. Clearly understanding the law is not beyond the capabilities of the Common American Human.

Lawyers have 3 years of specialty training, plus a year of study to pass a state and federal bar exam.

They also work as jr. Attorneys under the guidance of their seniors for their first few years of practice.

[Ifreann]

And yet you have a thriving legal industry. Clearly understanding the law is not beyond the capabilities of the Common American Human.

Lawyers have 3 years of specialty training, plus a year of study to pass a state and federal bar exam.

They also work as jr. Attorneys under the guidance of their seniors for their first few years of practice.

And I have every confidence that anyone inclined to do so, if they had access to the necessary resources, could learn all the same things that lawyers learn.

[Novus America]

Lawyers have 3 years of specialty training, plus a year of study to pass a state and federal bar exam.

They also work as jr. Attorneys under the guidance of their seniors for their first few years of practice.

And I have every confidence that anyone inclined to do so, if they had access to the necessary resources, could learn all the same things that lawyers learn.

Well you are assuming everyone has the motivation and comprehension.
But yes, we could also in theory train everyone to be a nuclear engineer too.

Specialization and division of labor is a thing though.

[Ifreann]

And I have every confidence that anyone inclined to do so, if they had access to the necessary resources, could learn all the same things that lawyers learn.

Well you are assuming everyone has the motivation and comprehension.

No, I'm not. I explicitly said "anyone inclined to do so". Obviously lots of people are not inclined to study law, and therefore don't. But "don't" isn't the same as "can't".

But yes, we could also in theory train everyone to be a nuclear engineer too.

Yes, we could.

Specialization and division of labor is a thing though.

I'm aware. My point is that people can understand the law, if they learn how. I wasn't suggesting that everyone study law or anything like that.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

And yet you have a thriving legal industry. Clearly understanding the law is not beyond the capabilities of the Common American Human.

Lawyers have 3 years of specialty training, plus a year of study to pass a state and federal bar exam.

They also work as jr. Attorneys under the guidance of their seniors for their first few years of practice.

While it takes that long to become a lawyer, learning discreet areas of law is easier.

I work for a legal clinic which provides free legal advice to people who need it. We can explain most legal issues in under twenty minutes, including having the person tell their problem. Of course, you miss many of the nuances, but for most issues those nuances don’t really matter.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

In principle, simple, easy to understand law is a great idea. It will never fly though as it would put politicians and lawyers out of work.

If lawyers could have a system where they had to spend less time per client so they could take on more clients, they would opt for that system.

[Novus America]

Well you are assuming everyone has the motivation and comprehension.

No, I'm not. I explicitly said "anyone inclined to do so". Obviously lots of people are not inclined to study law, and therefore don't. But "don't" isn't the same as "can't".

But yes, we could also in theory train everyone to be a nuclear engineer too.

Yes, we could.

Specialization and division of labor is a thing though.

I'm aware. My point is that people can understand the law, if they learn how. I wasn't suggesting that everyone study law or anything like that.

Some people with the motivation might lack the mental aptitude.
In an extreme example someone who has the intellectual capability of a two year old due to a development disorder.

But yes, must people with high enough level of reading comprehension, analytic thought and problem solving abilities could.

[Novus America]

In principle, simple, easy to understand law is a great idea. It will never fly though as it would put politicians and lawyers out of work.

If lawyers could have a system where they had to spend less time per client so they could take on more clients, they would opt for that system.

They have. 98% of cases are settled out of court. You know those lawyers you see on TV? The run settlement mills.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

If lawyers could have a system where they had to spend less time per client so they could take on more clients, they would opt for that system.

They have. 98% of cases are settled out of court. You know those lawyers you see on TV? The run settlement mills.

You think settlements are less work than court cases? Sure, you get a better outcome, but I don’t think a detailed settlement will be less work than your average court case.

[West Leas Oros 2]

In a lot of my own personal life, I owe quite a bit to lawyers for defending me and being there when I needed help. It's because of lawyers that the innocent are protected. That is what convinced me to pursue law.