More attention to the OTHER members of the lgbtq+

[Neutraligon]

The abysmal level of understanding demonstrated by this post does nothing but make me think that education on the topic is sorely needed.

[Edit, not to mention that 61% of the poll is currently not in favour. Is their understanding Abysmal too?]

The abysmal level of effort put into your post makes me think more education on forum posting is sorely needed.

That's the effort you're putting in? - Your post proves you're an idiot. Therefore my side of the debate is correct. We should completely restructure the entire education of our school system on the basis that my understanding of the subject is apparently incorrect?

I think not.

*** Warned for flaming ***

[The Halseyist Faction]

Who knows? You've made no attempt to correct any of my theoretical misunderstandings. You've just told me I'm wrong, considered that enough, and moved on.

I've explained the most bsic aspects of LGBT identity to ignorant, uninterested cishets about a million times and I don't particularly care to waste my effort on deaf ears yet again. Call me crazy. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And you'll see why my tolerence for you is at less than zero.

But judging from the poll attached to this thread, the burden of convincing the majority that you're right falls not on myself, but yourself as your views are held in the minority. So by all means, be my guest and rest on your laurels.

Case closed then. Clearly if I fundementally disagree with you, I am wrong, you are right, and we should educate everyone else to agree with you.
I've glad we've wrapped up this topic.

I don't like how you completely transformed my words and ideas to make me sound "bad", "close minded" and selfish. All I'm saying is that, since some people don't seem to understand sexuality, sexuality being quite a big thing in our society today, maybe more people should have at least the opportunity to learn about it. At my school, for instance, there is a whole club dedicated to it. You can choose whether or not to join it, of course. Same here. If you don't want to know, good for you. You don't have to. No need to be so passive aggressive about this. You wrote these posts knowing that people were going to disagree with you. Maybe look at it from our perspective, which is what I try to do. Besides, as I am now mentioning for the 100th time, this does not only apply to sexuality. If we keep learning the same things over and over again, how do you expect to evolve as a society? It's all about understanding, but not necessarily agreeing with, different perspectives. In the future, try to keep in mind that the other person has their own perspective on things. It's not about making someone change perspectives, but more finding a common ground. Try to differentiate fact from opinion. They are different things.

Hope you have a good rest of your day,

L. A. S.

I was annoyed, and my ire is directed at another poster and not yourself, so accept my apologies on that.

However the basic tenants of sexuality are quite well covered by the education in my experience. Now, granted, I'm British. You could be somewhere else, with a completely different educational system. For example if you live in the middle east, I'd wager that yes, I'd entirely agree the education system is somewhat lacking in that regard.

I've also no objection to school clubs. If kids want to form a club for any reason, that's great. I've no objection to the schools lending them a safe space to meet either. I do disagree on the school funding it, regardless of what club it is, though.

I do disagree to the premsis of this thread though, and that is an education to the depth that you suggest. I don't want pansexuality, and demi sexuality, and aromantism, and any number of sub sub catagories to form part of the core education system. It's not required. It's not terribly practical. There are simply, far, far more pressing subjects for children to be studying. [The climate, for one.] I've no objection to other peoples sexuality. I've no objections to support groups. I've no objections to a knowledgeable school counsellor kids with gender or sexuality crisis can seek out and speak to. I flatly draw the line at it being taught as part of the education syllabus in anything more than the most generalist sense.

Gender and sexuality is not a subject for government policy, and thus education. Do not place into the hands of the government to tell your children what gender and sex is.

[Cekoviu]

I've explained the most bsic aspects of LGBT identity to ignorant, uninterested cishets about a million times and I don't particularly care to waste my effort on deaf ears yet again. Call me crazy. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And you'll see why my tolerence for you is at less than zero.

But judging from the poll attached to this thread, the burden of convincing the majority that you're right falls not on myself, but yourself as your views are held in the minority. So by all means, be my guest and rest on your laurels.

...that's not how the burden of proof works, wtf.

[The Halseyist Faction]

The abysmal level of understanding demonstrated by this post does nothing but make me think that education on the topic is sorely needed.

[Edit, not to mention that 61% of the poll is currently not in favour. Is their understanding Abysmal too?]

The abysmal level of effort put into your post makes me think more education on forum posting is sorely needed.

That's the effort you're putting in? - Your post proves you're an idiot. Therefore my side of the debate is correct. We should completely restructure the entire education of our school system on the basis that my understanding of the subject is apparently incorrect?

I think not.

*** Warned for flaming ***

If that wasn't clear, I was paraphrasing their post which called my understanding of the subject abysmal without any attempt to explain why, as opposed to calling the other poster an idiot. I have no means by which to judge their intelligence, although I find them extremely aggravating in terms of their refusal to conduct any form of debate other than 'You're wrong, I'm right, and I don't have to make any effort to explain why.'

I apologise for any miscommunication or any belief I have conducted a personal attack on another poster, only their arguements [or lack thereof.]

[Eastern Denmark]

*** Warned for flaming ***

If that wasn't clear, I was paraphrasing their post which called my understanding of the subject abysmal without any attempt to explain why, as opposed to calling the other poster an idiot. I have no means by which to judge their intelligence, although I find them extremely aggravating in terms of their refusal to conduct any form of debate other than 'You're wrong, I'm right, and I don't have to make any effort to explain why.'

I apologise for any miscommunication or any belief I have conducted a personal attack on another poster, only their arguements [or lack thereof.]

"your post proves you're an idiot"
pretty sure that is a personal attack

[The Halseyist Faction]

If that wasn't clear, I was paraphrasing their post which called my understanding of the subject abysmal without any attempt to explain why, as opposed to calling the other poster an idiot. I have no means by which to judge their intelligence, although I find them extremely aggravating in terms of their refusal to conduct any form of debate other than 'You're wrong, I'm right, and I don't have to make any effort to explain why.'

I apologise for any miscommunication or any belief I have conducted a personal attack on another poster, only their arguements [or lack thereof.]

"your post proves you're an idiot"
pretty sure that is a personal attack

If that wasn't clear, I was paraphrasing their post which called my understanding of the subject abysmal without any attempt to explain why, as opposed to calling the other poster an idiot.

[Necroghastia]

You want an explananation? Fine. You can ask for that without calling other posters idiots, however.

No.

The current mad desire to not only catagorise people by what gender they identify with, as opposed to what gender they biologically are, is mad enough but vaguely understandable without then also feeling the need to define what everyone's sexual attraction is, and then subdivide that a few more times just to be sure.

Gender is not sex. "Biological gender" is essentially a non-sequitur. You call it "mad" without even attempting to understand what you're talking about. What problem is there with wanting to define yourself?

You don't want to have sex with people? Great. That's strictly a problem between you and your current romantic partner, and only a problem if your romantic partner wants sex. I have no idea why you'd want to 'come out' to anyone, particularly your mother. It is fairly typical in my experience, not to spend considerable amount of time discussing not you prefered gender of attraction, but specifically how much/not much you want to have sex with your own mother or even your friends. Unless you're trying to have asexual relationship with them, it doesn't seem particularly relevent to them either.

Lmao at reduce asexuality to just "you just don't want to have sex with your partner." Somehow you jump from the experience of coming out to family, i.e. telling people close to you about something that is a major factor in your life, to incest? What?

Futhermore, it's not a complex subject worthy of attention in school. It's literally the concept of wanting to engage in a romantic relationship without wanting or feeling the desire to engage in any sexual activity.

No. No and a thousand times no to schools being turned over to studying this and passing exams on what gender or sexuality the minority of the minority wishes to be this year.

Again, your abysmal level of understanding of LGBTQIA issues says otherwise.

[Estanglia]

Hello,
I am the leader of a relatively new nation, Nrutasica (yes, Saturn backwards + "ica". Hence the flag) and part of a lesser known part of the LGBT+ community: Asexuality. Since it is pride month, I wanted to discuss the lesser talked about members such as Aromatics, Asexuals, gender queers, pansexuals and such. There are many misconceptions regarding these specific terms. When I came out to a friend, for example, she told me that no, I haven't tried it yet so I wouldn't know. Asexuality is an attraction, not an an action. Another told me that's impossible since I have had crushes. Well, asexual and aromantic are different things. I, for instance, am a biromantic asexual. Also, I have friends who are pansexual. They have told me that people thought that pansexuals could fall in love with objects, which is not the case. And I, for example, don't understand gender queer. I just know it exists. The fact that this is happening in 2019 is quite troubling. Therefore, I believe that these aspects of the LGBT+ should be discussed more in schools, for instance, rather than bullying or smoking. I'm interested in seeing who agrees and disagrees and why. Let the debate begin

I'd be fine with them being taught in lessons/courses/subjects etc. that involve LGBT+ issues/discussion about them etc., but creating entirely new courses/subjects etc. I'd probably be against, especially if they take away from issues like bullying and smoking, which can cause serious harm to users/victims.

[Nrutasica]

Hello,
I am the leader of a relatively new nation, Nrutasica (yes, Saturn backwards + "ica". Hence the flag) and part of a lesser known part of the LGBT+ community: Asexuality. Since it is pride month, I wanted to discuss the lesser talked about members such as Aromatics, Asexuals, gender queers, pansexuals and such. There are many misconceptions regarding these specific terms. When I came out to a friend, for example, she told me that no, I haven't tried it yet so I wouldn't know. Asexuality is an attraction, not an an action. Another told me that's impossible since I have had crushes. Well, asexual and aromantic are different things. I, for instance, am a biromantic asexual. Also, I have friends who are pansexual. They have told me that people thought that pansexuals could fall in love with objects, which is not the case. And I, for example, don't understand gender queer. I just know it exists. The fact that this is happening in 2019 is quite troubling. Therefore, I believe that these aspects of the LGBT+ should be discussed more in schools, for instance, rather than bullying or smoking. I'm interested in seeing who agrees and disagrees and why. Let the debate begin

I'd be fine with them being taught in lessons/courses/subjects etc. that involve LGBT+ issues/discussion about them etc., but creating entirely new courses/subjects etc. I'd probably be against, especially if they take away from issues like bullying and smoking, which can cause serious harm to users/victims.

That's fair.

[Nrutasica]

Check out my "meme awards" thread on General, lol.

[Farnhamia]

Check out my "meme awards" thread on General, lol.

Which got moved to F7 because it is totally frivolous, dude. You need to spend some times with the rules (check the top of this forum). I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm but you need to think before you post.

[The Halseyist Faction]

You want an explananation? Fine. You can ask for that without calling other posters idiots, however.

No.

The current mad desire to not only catagorise people by what gender they identify with, as opposed to what gender they biologically are, is mad enough but vaguely understandable without then also feeling the need to define what everyone's sexual attraction is, and then subdivide that a few more times just to be sure.

Gender is not sex. "Biological gender" is essentially a non-sequitur. You call it "mad" without even attempting to understand what you're talking about. What problem is there with wanting to define yourself?

You don't want to have sex with people? Great. That's strictly a problem between you and your current romantic partner, and only a problem if your romantic partner wants sex. I have no idea why you'd want to 'come out' to anyone, particularly your mother. It is fairly typical in my experience, not to spend considerable amount of time discussing not you prefered gender of attraction, but specifically how much/not much you want to have sex with your own mother or even your friends. Unless you're trying to have asexual relationship with them, it doesn't seem particularly relevent to them either.

Lmao at reduce asexuality to just "you just don't want to have sex with your partner." Somehow you jump from the experience of coming out to family, i.e. telling people close to you about something that is a major factor in your life, to incest? What?

Futhermore, it's not a complex subject worthy of attention in school. It's literally the concept of wanting to engage in a romantic relationship without wanting or feeling the desire to engage in any sexual activity.

No. No and a thousand times no to schools being turned over to studying this and passing exams on what gender or sexuality the minority of the minority wishes to be this year.

Again, your abysmal level of understanding of LGBTQIA issues says otherwise.

1) I have no problem with you defining yourself. That's great. I'm not sure how we get from there to teaching classes in schools about how you define yourself to other people. What you define yourself as is exactly that. Nothing more, nothing less. Expecting the whole of society to go along with that is extreme. We can not cater to the needs of every minority. It isn't pratical. Law of diminishing returns, etc.

2) Asexuality, is, as I understand it. The lack of any interest in sexual intercourse. You still feel romantic feelings, are indeed, exactly the same as every "Normal" person, only you don't have a sex drive full stop. You don't need it, you don't want it, to a lesser or greater extent, you don't get why other people want it. You probably don't "Get off" either, masturbation feels like some sort of a weird chore and pornography is a weird art form.
In terms of the impact of that into the wider society, ie - How that impacts everyone else in the whole world... You don't want to have sex with your partner. None of your friends, your family, the taxpayer, are in any way affected by your lack of desire to engage in sexy times. Only the individuals who specifically want to engage in sexytimes, [ie your partner] are affected by it.

And no, not incest. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but the sentence is relating to discussing your sex life with your mother, not how much you want to have sex with your mother. Most people [perhaps just me?] have never felt a burning desire to discuss their sex life with their family, and I doubt very much mine have ever wanted to discuss it with me. Therefore any asexuality anyone might have is unlikely to intrude on that conversation.

3) Ah. We're back to the orginal point. "I've decided you don't get it, therefore you're wrong, I'm right and the debate is over." Forgive me, but I don't find that remotely compelling.

[Nrutasica]

You want an explananation? Fine. You can ask for that without calling other posters idiots, however.



Gender is not sex. "Biological gender" is essentially a non-sequitur. You call it "mad" without even attempting to understand what you're talking about. What problem is there with wanting to define yourself?



Lmao at reduce asexuality to just "you just don't want to have sex with your partner." Somehow you jump from the experience of coming out to family, i.e. telling people close to you about something that is a major factor in your life, to incest? What?



Again, your abysmal level of understanding of LGBTQIA issues says otherwise.

1) I have no problem with you defining yourself. That's great. I'm not sure how we get from there to teaching classes in schools about how you define yourself to other people. What you define yourself as is exactly that. Nothing more, nothing less. Expecting the whole of society to go along with that is extreme. We can not cater to the needs of every minority. It isn't pratical. Law of diminishing returns, etc.

2) Asexuality, is, as I understand it. The lack of any interest in sexual intercourse. You still feel romantic feelings, are indeed, exactly the same as every "Normal" person, only you don't have a sex drive full stop. You don't need it, you don't want it, to a lesser or greater extent, you don't get why other people want it. You probably don't "Get off" either, masturbation feels like some sort of a weird chore and pornography is a weird art form.
In terms of the impact of that into the wider society, ie - How that impacts everyone else in the whole world... You don't want to have sex with your partner. None of your friends, your family, the taxpayer, are in any way affected by your lack of desire to engage in sexy times. Only the individuals who specifically want to engage in sexytimes, [ie your partner] are affected by it.

And no, not incest. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but the sentence is relating to discussing your sex life with your mother, not how much you want to have sex with your mother. Most people [perhaps just me?] have never felt a burning desire to discuss their sex life with their family, and I doubt very much mine have ever wanted to discuss it with me. Therefore any asexuality anyone might have is unlikely to intrude on that conversation.

3) Ah. We're back to the orginal point. "I've decided you don't get it, therefore you're wrong, I'm right and the debate is over." Forgive me, but I don't find that remotely compelling.

Honestly, guys, give them a break. They're using the forum as intended. Maybe the way they word their perspective can seem a little "extreme" but that's the limitation of writing. You don't hear the tone in the person's voice or see their facial expressions. Even just words have their limitations. I understand you cannot read each other's minds but They are trying to make their point as clear as possible, answering back to all of your "misunderstandings" with their arguments. No offense, but I find it kind if pointless that we're arguing when having found what seems to me a common ground. People should have the option to learn about it and discuss it but it shouldn't be mandatory anywhere. This is probably the 10th time I've said this, but the aim is to find a common ground. A solution both sides are happy with. I believe we have found it. Any suggestions on how we can give people the chance (again, chance. No one is forced to) learn about or discuss this?

[Necroghastia]

1) I have no problem with you defining yourself. That's great. I'm not sure how we get from there to teaching classes in schools about how you define yourself to other people. What you define yourself as is exactly that. Nothing more, nothing less. Expecting the whole of society to go along with that is extreme. We can not cater to the needs of every minority. It isn't pratical. Law of diminishing returns, etc.

Because it's such a huge burden to society to expect people to not be dicks and be open to learning. What special catering is being asked for? I would also like to point out that your original post did not mention teaching classes until the very end, seeming to be just a rant about how it's getting too confusing for you so people should stop it already. I can't see what else saying we have "mad desires" just for being trans could mean. That being said, I don't see why asexuality shouldn't be covered in, say, a sex-ed class, as something that's perfectly normal and doesn't mean one has any sort of mental disorder (seeing as the reverse has historically been the case, much like LGBT people).

2) Asexuality, is, as I understand it. The lack of any interest in sexual intercourse. You still feel romantic feelings, are indeed, exactly the same as every "Normal" person, only you don't have a sex drive full stop. You don't need it, you don't want it, to a lesser or greater extent, you don't get why other people want it. You probably don't "Get off" either, masturbation feels like some sort of a weird chore and pornography is a weird art form.
In terms of the impact of that into the wider society, ie - How that impacts everyone else in the whole world... You don't want to have sex with your partner. None of your friends, your family, the taxpayer, are in any way affected by your lack of desire to engage in sexy times. Only the individuals who specifically want to engage in sexytimes, [ie your partner] are affected by it.

And no, not incest. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but the sentence is relating to discussing your sex life with your mother, not how much you want to have sex with your mother. Most people [perhaps just me?] have never felt a burning desire to discuss their sex life with their family, and I doubt very much mine have ever wanted to discuss it with me. Therefore any asexuality anyone might have is unlikely to intrude on that conversation.

And there's the thing. As you understand it. Asexuality can be and often is more complex than that. Some ace people have a sex drive and masturbate, but actually doing the do with other people is a turnoff. There's also things like demisexuality, which adds even more nuance to the topic.

Do you have the same objections to "coming out" as gay/bi/trans? Because I'm not seeing much of a meaningful difference between that and coming out as ace.

And, for much the same reasons as other LGBT people, aces may take pride in their identity as something that is often marginalized by society.

3) Ah. We're back to the orginal point. "I've decided you don't get it, therefore you're wrong, I'm right and the debate is over." Forgive me, but I don't find that remotely compelling.

Watch your arm while you're cramming those words in my mouth. I bite~~

[Nrutasica]

Should I get rid of this topic or does anyone have anything more to say?