Charlottesville attacker gets life sentence

[Agarntrop]

Oh but you see it's better he ends up costing thousands of dollars per year cuz killing is bad m'kay?

1. Capital punishment is actually more expensive than life imprisonment.
2. Capital punishment is, in fact, bad, even for Nazis.
3. The longer they're in, the more of a chance there is that they'll truly renounce their actions, and agree to help prevent others from copycatting them, which is an obvious net benefit to society.
4. Even if they don't, executing them only gives their movement the martyrs it craves.

Indeed. I hate it when people accuse you of thinking that some of these murderers don't deserve to die (of course they do, it just shouldn't be the state which does it) because you oppose an ancient system based on retribution that has grown into an expensive and inefficient monstrosity.

[Grenartia]

1. Capital punishment is actually more expensive than life imprisonment.
2. Capital punishment is, in fact, bad, even for Nazis.
3. The longer they're in, the more of a chance there is that they'll truly renounce their actions, and agree to help prevent others from copycatting them, which is an obvious net benefit to society.
4. Even if they don't, executing them only gives their movement the martyrs it craves.

Indeed. I hate it when people accuse you of thinking that some of these murderers don't deserve to die (of course they do, it just shouldn't be the state which does it) because you oppose an ancient system based on retribution that has grown into an expensive and inefficient monstrosity.

I mean, as long as capital punishment is an option, the only way it can be kept from killing as many innocents as possible is if it is expensive and 'inefficient'.

As for the current American retributive system as a whole, I badly wish we'd rip off the Norwegian system, maybe make a few improvements ourselves.

[Nakena]

Indeed. I hate it when people accuse you of thinking that some of these murderers don't deserve to die (of course they do, it just shouldn't be the state which does it) because you oppose an ancient system based on retribution that has grown into an expensive and inefficient monstrosity.

Guillotine?
Shoot them in the head?

I'm just asking, if it's cheap effective solutions you want, as far as I know(and I could be wrong) those are relatively mortal and kill quickly, so are relatively humane.

Yeah but since it's murica theres the need to make things elaborate, complicated and convoluted. I doubt if a public and livestreamed roman style pitfight against wild beasts would be any more expensive.

[Grenartia]

Guillotine?
Shoot them in the head?

I'm just asking, if it's cheap effective solutions you want, as far as I know(and I could be wrong) those are relatively mortal and kill quickly, so are relatively humane.

Yeah but since it's murica theres the need to make things elaborate, complicated and convoluted. I doubt if a public and livestreamed roman style pitfight against wild beasts would be any more expensive.

The "elaborate, complicated, and convoluted" things are necessary to prevent the execution of the falsely accused and convicted.

[Nakena]

Yeah but since it's murica theres the need to make things elaborate, complicated and convoluted. I doubt if a public and livestreamed roman style pitfight against wild beasts would be any more expensive.

The "elaborate, complicated, and convoluted" things are necessary to prevent the execution of the falsely accused and convicted.

I was referencing to the execution methods by a mix of chemical components. Not the legal procedures.

[Agarntrop]

You can either have an American-style system which is expensive and inefficient, like I said. Or you can have a pre-abolitionist British system which kills people without much thought and causes the killing of innocents to be prevalent. Neither is acceptable.

[Rossiyaana]

The "elaborate, complicated, and convoluted" things are necessary to prevent the execution of the falsely accused and convicted.

Fair enough. Then execution of Terrorists or War Criminals?
I'm honestly willing to have or not have a death penalty. I see both as having upsides and having downsides, and moral quandaries.

But do you think the Charlottesville attacker deserves it?

[Grenartia]

The "elaborate, complicated, and convoluted" things are necessary to prevent the execution of the falsely accused and convicted.

I was referencing to the execution methods by a mix of chemical components. Not the legal procedures.

I mean I have to doubt it being "elaborate, complicated, and convoluted". It all sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

[Grenartia]

The "elaborate, complicated, and convoluted" things are necessary to prevent the execution of the falsely accused and convicted.

Fair enough. Then execution of Terrorists or War Criminals?
I'm honestly willing to have or not have a death penalty. I see both as having upsides and having downsides, and moral quandaries.

Opposed, for the following reasons:

3. The longer they're in, the more of a chance there is that they'll truly renounce their actions, and agree to help prevent others from copycatting them, which is an obvious net benefit to society.
4. Even if they don't, executing them only gives their movement the martyrs it craves.

[Nakena]

I was referencing to the execution methods by a mix of chemical components. Not the legal procedures.

I mean I have to doubt it being "elaborate, complicated, and convoluted". It all sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

Supposedly Fields got spared from capital punishment because there was a specific federal charge that wasnt being pressed for. So it could have gone easily also the other way.

Then again I am not the creator an expert nor a fan of the legal specifics in place.

My worry is of them escaping primarily or being broken out, or being able to speak publicly and rally their followers.

That is to be assumed to be rather unlikely. However so far Fields has apparently not shown any signs of remorse.

[Rossiyaana]

Opposed, for the following reasons:

Fair enough.

My worry is of them escaping primarily or being broken out, or being able to speak publicly and rally their followers.

Break outs don’t happen often, and when they do they rarely end well for the prisoners and their accomplices. I live down the street from a mental hospital as well 20 minutes south of the county jail for a relatively large county. People escape maybe once a year and they’re always caught within a few hours.

And I’ve never seen a prisoner allowed to make public speeches while incarcerated.

[Grenartia]

Yeah but since it's murica theres the need to make things elaborate, complicated and convoluted. I doubt if a public and livestreamed roman style pitfight against wild beasts would be any more expensive.

No chemicals needed if they carefully, very carefully place the guns, and the guillotine well speaks for itself. Relatively painless, quick, and more humane than most other methods, though it is a horrific sight.

I'm opposed to the firing squad on the basis that if someone is going to execute someone else, they should have to fucking live with the fact they executed someone. They shouldn't have the luxury of fantasizing that they didn't actually kill someone.

Opposed, for the following reasons:

Fair enough.

My worry is of them escaping primarily or being broken out, or being able to speak publicly and rally their followers.

I mean, escapes in America are rare (even rarer that they aren't relatively quickly apprehended), especially from the higher-security prisons, which terrorists and war criminals should be put in by default.

[Agarntrop]

Break outs don’t happen often, and when they do they rarely end well for the prisoners and their accomplices. I live down the street from a mental hospital as well 20 minutes south of the county jail for a relatively large county. People escape maybe once a year and they’re always caught within a few hours.

And I’ve never seen a prisoner allowed to make public speeches while incarcerated.

Nazis did it, some Terrorists did, afaik.

Plus, who says they won't try to break out of death row? In fact, I think they'd want to more.

[Nakena]

Break outs don’t happen often, and when they do they rarely end well for the prisoners and their accomplices. I live down the street from a mental hospital as well 20 minutes south of the county jail for a relatively large county. People escape maybe once a year and they’re always caught within a few hours.

And I’ve never seen a prisoner allowed to make public speeches while incarcerated.

Nazis did it, some Terrorists did, afaik.

Nobody is going to help that guy. He's widely hated and ridiculed even within the remnants of the alt-right.

[Agarntrop]

Plus, who says they won't try to break out of death row? In fact, I think they'd want to more.

What if they request to die, i.e. are suicidal?

Then again that gets into suicide and right to kill oneself as a concept so never mind, let's bottle that up for another thread.

That was a bit random...

[Kowani]

Death penalty, period. A man that runs down others in his car that he doesn't like is the utmost coward.

Oh but you see it's better he ends up costing thousands of dollars per year cuz killing is bad m'kay?

Educate yourself.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Oh but you see it's better he ends up costing thousands of dollars per year cuz killing is bad m'kay?

Educate yourself.

This.

[New haven america]

Death penalty, period. A man that runs down others in his car that he doesn't like is the utmost coward.

Oh but you see it's better he ends up costing thousands of dollars per year cuz killing is bad m'kay?

The death penalty costs more than a life sentence, deary.

No, seriously, the death penalty's fucking expensive.

[Loben The 2nd]

Oh but you see it's better he ends up costing thousands of dollars per year cuz killing is bad m'kay?

The death penalty costs more than a life sentence, deary.

No, seriously, the death penalty's fucking expensive.

Not when the trial and execution are the same event!

[New haven america]

Indeed. I hate it when people accuse you of thinking that some of these murderers don't deserve to die (of course they do, it just shouldn't be the state which does it) because you oppose an ancient system based on retribution that has grown into an expensive and inefficient monstrosity.

I mean, as long as capital punishment is an option, the only way it can be kept from killing as many innocents as possible is if it is expensive and 'inefficient'.

As for the current American retributive system as a whole, I badly wish we'd rip off the Norwegian system, maybe make a few improvements ourselves.

But then we won't be tough on crime and lose a massive population of slave labor!

[Loben The 2nd]

I mean, as long as capital punishment is an option, the only way it can be kept from killing as many innocents as possible is if it is expensive and 'inefficient'.

As for the current American retributive system as a whole, I badly wish we'd rip off the Norwegian system, maybe make a few improvements ourselves.

But then we won't be tough on crime and lose a massive population of slave labor!

Isn’t indentured servitude on the list of acceptable punishments?

[Kowani]

The death penalty costs more than a life sentence, deary.

No, seriously, the death penalty's fucking expensive.

Not when the trial and execution are the same event!

Yeah, that’s feasible. What do we even have appeals for?

[New haven america]

But then we won't be tough on crime and lose a massive population of slave labor!

Isn’t indentured servitude on the list of acceptable punishments?

Considering prisoners in America already live in the New World, no, it is not.

[Loben The 2nd]

Not when the trial and execution are the same event!

Yeah, that’s feasible. What do we even have appeals for?

Delaying the inevitable.

[Loben The 2nd]

Isn’t indentured servitude on the list of acceptable punishments?

Considering prisoners in America already live in the New World, no, it is not.

Tbh the new world is p old.