NationStates

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:33 pm**

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 026358002/
https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/02/14 ... y-council/
This is story is a few months old but i thought it raised an interesting question.

Most city councils in the US begin all meetings with a invocation or a spoken prayers of sorts. I would assume the practice is done in other countries as well

In Boston several religions have done the invocation and the Satanic Temple of Salem wanted a turn.

The Temple was however denied and the group headquartered in nearby Salem filed a complaint of religious discrimination and violation of the first amendment with the Massachusetts Commission Against Discrimination.

According to USA Today "the council's attorney, according to the complaint, responded by telling the group that the body does not accept requests to deliver invocations, has no formal policy regarding invocations and simply allows individual council members to choose who leads them" The leader of the Temple said "The very definition of discrimination is preferential treatment of different groups or individuals," Jarry said. "Because they are the ones who are solely making the decisions, it can't help but be discriminatory."

In my opinion they should have been allowed to give the invocation. Its not unprecedented. A few cities in recent years have allowed it including a few towns in Alaska and other places and a famous one in Pensacola from 2016 which has to be one of the most entertaining things i've ever watched. There is no state religion and it makes no sense to deny them as the first amendment protects freedom of religion. Nothing bad happened at previous satanic invocations and who am I to judge them? Let them do the reading. Its harming no one.

What do you think NSG? Should the invocation have been denied?

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:44 pm**

This seems like the sort of stunt that would've been funny back in 2003.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:44 pm**

Bear Stearns wrote:This seems like the sort of stunt that would've been funny back in 2003.

Why do you call it a stunt?

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:45 pm**

San Lumen wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:This seems like the sort of stunt that would've been funny back in 2003.

Why do you call it a stunt?

Because it is.

I still think it’s a funny stunt, and it makes us question our practices and procedures, so it, like a lot of stunts, serves a legitimate public purpose.

I approve.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:47 pm**

Galloism wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Why do you call it a stunt?

Because it is.

I still think it’s a funny stunt, and it makes us question our practices and procedures, so it, like a lot of stunts, serves a legitimate public purpose.

I approve.

How is it a stunt? Its a recognized religion by the IRS however hard that is to believe

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:47 pm**

Bear Stearns wrote:This seems like the sort of stunt that would've been funny back in 2003.

This pretty much ^^

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:48 pm**

But what if allowing the Satanic Temple to do the invocation would undermine the relations between the city council and the people they represent?

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:48 pm**

San Lumen wrote:
Galloism wrote:Because it is.

I still think it’s a funny stunt, and it makes us question our practices and procedures, so it, like a lot of stunts, serves a legitimate public purpose.

I approve.

How is it a stunt? Its a recognized religion by the IRS however hard that is to believe

Religion is hard to believe, but here we are.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:48 pm**

San Lumen wrote:
Galloism wrote:Because it is.

I still think it’s a funny stunt, and it makes us question our practices and procedures, so it, like a lot of stunts, serves a legitimate public purpose.

I approve.

How is it a stunt? Its a recognized religion by the IRS however hard that is to believe

That’s a ridiculously easy hurdle.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:49 pm**

Some people feel hurt by such an action, I guess.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:49 pm**

San Lumen wrote:
Galloism wrote:Because it is.

I still think it’s a funny stunt, and it makes us question our practices and procedures, so it, like a lot of stunts, serves a legitimate public purpose.

I approve.

How is it a stunt? Its a recognized religion by the IRS however hard that is to believe

Better roll out the red carpet for the Jedi then.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:50 pm**

Galloism wrote:
San Lumen wrote:How is it a stunt? Its a recognized religion by the IRS however hard that is to believe

That’s a ridiculously easy hurdle.

How easy?

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:53 pm**

Telconi wrote:
Galloism wrote:That’s a ridiculously easy hurdle.

How easy?

You typically register with your state as an incorporated religious organization, apply for an ein and then technically you don’t have to do anything else.

Religions get automatic 501c3 status.

Some will do an application anyway to give donors assurance. It’ll run you from 1000-1500 in user fees and accountant fees if you decide to.

But technically that’s not required.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:53 pm**

Telconi wrote:But what if allowing the Satanic Temple to do the invocation would undermine the relations between the city council and the people they represent?

What kind of question is that? If they wanted do one in my city I would have no problem with it. There is also something called the first amendment in case you forgot.

Telconi wrote:
Galloism wrote:That’s a ridiculously easy hurdle.

How easy?

This will tell you all about how easy it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:53 pm**

Telconi wrote:
Galloism wrote:That’s a ridiculously easy hurdle.

How easy?

You literally just fill out the form for a 501(c)(3) organization.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:53 pm**

Bear Stearns wrote:
Telconi wrote:
How easy?

You literally just fill out the form for a 501(c)(3) organization.

Not even.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:55 pm**

Galloism wrote:
Telconi wrote:
How easy?

You typically register with your state as an incorporated religious organization, apply for an ein and then technically you don’t have to do anything else.

Religions get automatic 501c3 status.

Some will do an application anyway to give donors assurance. It’ll run you from 1000-1500 in user fees and accountant fees if you decide to.

But technically that’s not required.

You don't even need to prove that you actually have a doctrine or belief system.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:56 pm**

Bear Stearns wrote:
Galloism wrote:You typically register with your state as an incorporated religious organization, apply for an ein and then technically you don’t have to do anything else.

Religions get automatic 501c3 status.

Some will do an application anyway to give donors assurance. It’ll run you from 1000-1500 in user fees and accountant fees if you decide to.

But technically that’s not required.

You don't even need to prove that you actually have a doctrine or belief system.

Nope.

Although the irs sometimes investigates the organization if they think it has no legitimate religious nature and is being used as a tax shelter.

Those have gotten less in recent years, though.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:57 pm**

Galloism wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:
You don't even need to prove that you actually have a doctrine or belief system.

Nope.

Although the irs sometimes investigates the organization if they think it has no legitimate religious nature and is being used as a tax shelter.

Those have gotten less in recent years, though.

murica

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:58 pm**

Telconi wrote:But what if allowing the Satanic Temple to do the invocation would undermine the relations between the city council and the people they represent?

Then arguably allowing a Christian, Jewish or Islamic invocation would do the same. The solution is simple: end invocations before meetings of governmental bodies. Oh and the Hub council is going to lose in court.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:58 pm**

Boston can go to hell.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:00 pm**

San Lumen wrote:
Galloism wrote:Because it is.

I still think it’s a funny stunt, and it makes us question our practices and procedures, so it, like a lot of stunts, serves a legitimate public purpose.

I approve.

How is it a stunt? Its a recognized religion by the IRS however hard that is to believe

It's a stunt because the Satanists are likely doing it to prove a point about the First Amendment and not because they are sincerely worried about the Boston city council securing Satan's blessing.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:01 pm**

Bear Stearns wrote:
San Lumen wrote:How is it a stunt? Its a recognized religion by the IRS however hard that is to believe

It's a stunt because the Satanists are likely doing it to prove a point about the First Amendment and not because they are sincerely worried about the Boston city council securing Satan's blessing.

Well Satan is the ruler of the world....

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:02 pm**

Bear Stearns wrote:
San Lumen wrote:How is it a stunt? Its a recognized religion by the IRS however hard that is to believe

It's a stunt because the Satanists are likely doing it to prove a point about the First Amendment and not because they are sincerely worried about the Boston city council securing Satan's blessing.

Darn that tricky Bill of Rights. Just like the stunt Martin Luther King pulled in Selma that one time. Or that Stonewall stunt.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:02 pm**

Galloism wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:
It's a stunt because the Satanists are likely doing it to prove a point about the First Amendment and not because they are sincerely worried about the Boston city council securing Satan's blessing.

Well Satan is the ruler of the world....

I was under the impression that politicians had his blessing by default.

NationStates

Satanists Denied Invocation at Boston City Council Meeting

Satanists Denied Invocation at Boston City Council Meeting