Yes.
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by Bluelight-R006 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:10 pm
by ImperialRussia » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:11 pm
by Pyta » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:15 pm
Galloism wrote:Pyta wrote:
There's absolutely no evidence of this as anything even resembling a hard and fast rule. There's some studies that show it can sometimes motivate salespeople, but that's hardly the same as a mars mission. It does, definitively, increase stress on people, and on a mars mission "deliberately increasing stress" lands somewhere between "incredibly bad idea" and "literally homicidal"
Well, they key is also not to make it life changing whether you win or lose. The rewards should be relatively small and nominal - the goal is to win for its own sake, not for your livelihood.
I mean, if you kill the losing team, that’s probably stress inducing and not a good idea.
by Kowani » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:16 pm
ImperialRussia wrote:maintaining female immortal impossible the brain will slowly degrade by each clone
by Galloism » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:16 pm
by Hammer Britannia » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:18 pm
by American Pere Housh » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:18 pm
by Bombadil » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:20 pm
Galloism wrote:Bluelight-R006 wrote:Yes.
I hate to tell you guys this, but using the most advanced recently invented technology available, assuming we can scale it (we’re not sure yet), and get a good slingshot off the sun, it would take around 13,000 years to reach our closest neighboring star.
You would certainly be able to have children 16 years away from destination.... on like the 45th generation of humans.
by Galloism » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:21 pm
Pyta wrote:Galloism wrote:Well, they key is also not to make it life changing whether you win or lose. The rewards should be relatively small and nominal - the goal is to win for its own sake, not for your livelihood.
I mean, if you kill the losing team, that’s probably stress inducing and not a good idea.
I know what you're trying to say but it's fantastically wrong even within it's own, self-contained logic.
Like the reason that competition "works" to increase productivity is precisely because it increases stress on participants. The desire to win the small and nominal rewards creates it's own value within participants, who then stress about it, and can then develop grudges against their opponents. Go ask a car salesperson what they think of the other salespeople at the dealership. You're not going to get a rosy picture.
You are proposing that a mission to mars deliberately create conflict between crew members. It's outlandishly dumb.
by Nova Cyberia » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:21 pm
by Bombadil » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:22 pm
American Pere Housh wrote:Why anyone would support something like this I don't know. Both sexes should be represented.
by Nova Cyberia » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:27 pm
Bombadil wrote:American Pere Housh wrote:Why anyone would support something like this I don't know. Both sexes should be represented.
Well.. I think that's technically the point of the OP.. if it was a given that only having females increased the chances of survival by, say, 50%.. would people still demand males are represented?
by Galloism » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:28 pm
Bombadil wrote:Galloism wrote:I hate to tell you guys this, but using the most advanced recently invented technology available, assuming we can scale it (we’re not sure yet), and get a good slingshot off the sun, it would take around 13,000 years to reach our closest neighboring star.
You would certainly be able to have children 16 years away from destination.... on like the 45th generation of humans.
Sure, but only breed females in flight and then males as you approach.
by Bombadil » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:30 pm
Nova Cyberia wrote:Bombadil wrote:
Well.. I think that's technically the point of the OP.. if it was a given that only having females increased the chances of survival by, say, 50%.. would people still demand males are represented?
Except that's not the reality and will never be the reality. Your desire for a female-dominated society just makes you seem more misandrist.
by Blargoblarg » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:32 pm
by Bombadil » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:36 pm
Galloism wrote:Bombadil wrote:
Sure, but only breed females in flight and then males as you approach.
Now you’ve either got to sex separate your sperm before liftoff (can we do that?) or abort/kill all the wrong children.
Presuming we can’t do sex selective sperm, the former takes certain diagnostics and tools (increasing your weight, although it might be worth it) while the latter requires no special skills but extremely strong wills.
Also, we’d have to eat the body or use it as fertilizer in hydroponics.
Not to mention, we really don’t have any idea what 13,000 years of women only society would even look like (this is longer than all of recorded history). It could actually arise a situation where men are seen as slaves or chattel, useful only for their muscles. Doubly so if it’s been passed down for 13,000 years that we will only have men when we need their muscles.
by Nova Cyberia » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:38 pm
by Galloism » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:43 pm
Bombadil wrote:Galloism wrote:Now you’ve either got to sex separate your sperm before liftoff (can we do that?) or abort/kill all the wrong children.
Presuming we can’t do sex selective sperm, the former takes certain diagnostics and tools (increasing your weight, although it might be worth it) while the latter requires no special skills but extremely strong wills.
Also, we’d have to eat the body or use it as fertilizer in hydroponics.
I think we can just switch off the Y chromosome.
Not to mention, we really don’t have any idea what 13,000 years of women only society would even look like (this is longer than all of recorded history). It could actually arise a situation where men are seen as slaves or chattel, useful only for their muscles. Doubly so if it’s been passed down for 13,000 years that we will only have men when we need their muscles.
Yes, this is possibly fair, but that rests on your presumption that men are needed for their muscles. Having said that in surviving without men for 13, 000 years they might question as to whether they need men at all, or that in reproducing them they're seen as inferior.
However we're talking about a survival of the species situation and maximising that success, to an extent regardless of how that survival pans out.
by Pyta » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:45 pm
Galloism wrote:Pyta wrote:
I know what you're trying to say but it's fantastically wrong even within it's own, self-contained logic.
Like the reason that competition "works" to increase productivity is precisely because it increases stress on participants. The desire to win the small and nominal rewards creates it's own value within participants, who then stress about it, and can then develop grudges against their opponents. Go ask a car salesperson what they think of the other salespeople at the dealership. You're not going to get a rosy picture.
You are proposing that a mission to mars deliberately create conflict between crew members. It's outlandishly dumb.
I don’t think you’ve ever managed employees.
You might start with this as a quick primer:
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm ... id=2520123
by Bombadil » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:48 pm
Galloism wrote:Bombadil wrote:
I think we can just switch off the Y chromosome.
I don’t think we can actually do that.
Yes, this is possibly fair, but that rests on your presumption that men are needed for their muscles. Having said that in surviving without men for 13, 000 years they might question as to whether they need men at all, or that in reproducing them they're seen as inferior.
However we're talking about a survival of the species situation and maximising that success, to an extent regardless of how that survival pans out.
The Orville did a bit on this.
https://orville.fandom.com/wiki/Moclan
The species was all male, and being born female was considered a curse, as they didn’t have the capability men did, and they felt no need to have them.
I do not approve.
by Galloism » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:50 pm
Pyta wrote:Galloism wrote:I don’t think you’ve ever managed employees.
You might start with this as a quick primer:
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm ... id=2520123
I cannot, possibly, stress to you enough that the things you learned at the midwest regional office depot assistant managers conference at the hyatt regency in columbus ohio do not apply to a fucking mars mission.
by Galloism » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:53 pm
Bombadil wrote:Galloism wrote:
I don’t think we can actually do that.
The Orville did a bit on this.
https://orville.fandom.com/wiki/Moclan
The species was all male, and being born female was considered a curse, as they didn’t have the capability men did, and they felt no need to have them.
I do not approve.
Sure, the Amazonians did fine though.
I might answer differently given length of flight, the longer the flight the more I might be inclined to include men.. part because our technology levels would be far greater by default. If was more short term and involved a flee to Mars or Titan, say, then I might dismiss this idea of a need for muscle and go solely with women.
Is there anything on ISS that requires male muscle?
by Pyta » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:13 pm
Galloism wrote:Pyta wrote:
I cannot, possibly, stress to you enough that the things you learned at the midwest regional office depot assistant managers conference at the hyatt regency in columbus ohio do not apply to a fucking mars mission.
They even engage in friendly competition on the international space station.
Its really good fun.
by Galloism » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:30 pm
Pyta wrote:Galloism wrote:They even engage in friendly competition on the international space station.
Its really good fun.
You will note, importantly, that the astronauts are not actually doing any kind of competition.
Just to go back, over the course of this thread, you have repeatedly asserted the blatant falsehood that women lack the upper body strength to perform what manual labor would be required on the mars mission, asserted that the minimum viable population of humans for genetic diversity would be 50 (easy to find that the actual number here is ~160 for a 20 generation mission and ~4,000 for a permanent one), decided that 16,000 years would be 45 generations (It would be much closer to 400 on the extremely low end) and are now talking about the importance of body strength on the international space station, despite the fact that the space station is in microgravity, and muscular atrophy in long term microgravity means that most people are too weak to do so much as walk.
You've been talking out your ass this entire thread and just getting huffy when you get called on it.
Anders said there was a friendly competition among the Apollo astronauts who all coveted the “gold ring” — becoming the first man to walk on the moon. “I would have been glad to beat him to it,” he acknowledged, “but NASA picked the best person of all of us to do the job.”
by Loben The 2nd » Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:31 am
Nova Cyberia wrote:Bombadil wrote:
Well.. I think that's technically the point of the OP.. if it was a given that only having females increased the chances of survival by, say, 50%.. would people still demand males are represented?
Except that's not the reality and will never be the reality. Your desire for a female-dominated society just makes you seem more misandrist.
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