Oregon Republicans facing arrest

[Galloism]

Fair to note - Oregon has a fairly high performance gap, and is heavily gerrymandered.

https://ballotpedia.org/Redistricting_in_Oregon



The lines are drawn in such a way that the composition of the legislature is damn near fixed. You'll notice, this is a classic gerrymandering tactic - in 3 of the 4 representative elections that voted democrat, the gap was between 10-20%, while in the sole district that voted Republican, the vote was 43.7%. This is called packing, which you pack as many reliable voters for the opponent into a single district, in order to get your party more representatives at closer (but still insurmountable) margins.

Im looking at the maps for congress and the state legislature. They seem fairly drawn and clean looking.

[San Lumen]

I would have no issue with a non partisan commission drawing legislative lines but to honest even under a commission drawn map you'd very likely wind up with a very similar result in the legislature due to population density

This, at the very least, warrants a look and it's not irrelevant.

I agree. i did not call it irrelevant.

I said before i am not opposed to a independent commission drawing legislative lines. Thats how it should be drawn every state.

Im looking at the maps for congress and the state legislature. They seem fairly drawn and clean looking.

I dont see anything wrong with that map.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

This, at the very least, warrants a look and it's not irrelevant.

I agree. i did not call it irrelevant.

I said before i am not opposed to a independent commission drawing legislative lines. Thats how it should be drawn every state.

I dont see anything wrong with that map.

You... did- *sigh* never mind. If anyone else wishes to address this, go ahead.

[San Lumen]

I agree. i did not call it irrelevant.

I said before i am not opposed to a independent commission drawing legislative lines. Thats how it should be drawn every state.



I dont see anything wrong with that map.

You... did- *sigh* never mind. If anyone else wishes to address this, go ahead.

I never expressed any specific objection to legislative lines in Oregon. I merely suggested there might be some gerrymandering but compared to some states its rather mild and for the most part the legislative and congressional lines reflect the state.

[Galloism]

(Image)

I dont see anything wrong with that map.

Perhaps it would help to note that district 2 is the sole republican district, and the dog leg into district 4 is to prevent 4 from becoming competitive (where the vote split is currently about 15%), by grouping that predominantly republican area into district 2.

It also would be helpful to note that if it wasn't for the weird peninsula in district 1 chewing away republican voters from district 5, then district 5 would also be competitive (where the vote split is currently about 10%).

If you made the map more squarish, there would be 2 democratic strongholds, 1 republican strongholds, and 2 competitive districts.

As it is, there's 4 democratic strongholds, and one republican stronghold. The fix is in.

[San Lumen]

I dont see anything wrong with that map.

Perhaps it would help to note that district 2 is the sole republican district, and the dog leg into district 4 is to prevent 4 from becoming competitive (where the vote split is currently about 15%), by grouping that predominantly republican area into district 2.

It also would be helpful to note that if it wasn't for the weird peninsula in district 1 chewing away republican voters from district 5, then district 5 would also be competitive (where the vote split is currently about 10%).

If you made the map more squarish, there would be 2 democratic strongholds, 1 republican strongholds, and 2 competitive districts.

As it is, there's 4 democratic strongholds, and one republican stronghold. The fix is in.

and you know this how? Plus we were talking about the state legislature here not congress

[Galloism]

Perhaps it would help to note that district 2 is the sole republican district, and the dog leg into district 4 is to prevent 4 from becoming competitive (where the vote split is currently about 15%), by grouping that predominantly republican area into district 2.

It also would be helpful to note that if it wasn't for the weird peninsula in district 1 chewing away republican voters from district 5, then district 5 would also be competitive (where the vote split is currently about 10%).

If you made the map more squarish, there would be 2 democratic strongholds, 1 republican strongholds, and 2 competitive districts.

As it is, there's 4 democratic strongholds, and one republican stronghold. The fix is in.

and you know this how?

You could look at the ballotpedia article I linked to you about the percentage thresholds, and take a glance at the map.

Plus we were talking about the state legislature here not congress

Yes, the state legislature is also gerrymandered.

https://www.oregonlive.com/today/2017/1 ... _of_g.html

[San Lumen]

and you know this how?

You could look at the ballotpedia article I linked to you about the percentage thresholds, and take a glance at the map.

Plus we were talking about the state legislature here not congress

Yes, the state legislature is also gerrymandered.

https://www.oregonlive.com/today/2017/1 ... _of_g.html

if its that gerrymandered than it should be drawn by an independent commission. Gerrymandering should not be done by either side.

[Galloism]

You could look at the ballotpedia article I linked to you about the percentage thresholds, and take a glance at the map.



Yes, the state legislature is also gerrymandered.

https://www.oregonlive.com/today/2017/1 ... _of_g.html

if its that gerrymandered than it should be drawn by an independent commission. Gerrymandering should not be done by either side.

I absolutely agree. And there's states gerrymandered worse than Oregon (Ohio, come the fuck on now).

I think we could do a jury approach. We select like 6 random people from the public, we sequester them away from any news, and provide population data but not any partisan data, require the districts be within 2% population of each other, and let the districts fall where they may.

[San Lumen]

if its that gerrymandered than it should be drawn by an independent commission. Gerrymandering should not be done by either side.

I absolutely agree. And there's states gerrymandered worse than Oregon (Ohio, come the fuck on now).

I think we could do a jury approach. We select like 6 random people from the public, we sequester them away from any news, and provide population data but not any partisan data, require the districts be within 2% population of each other, and let the districts fall where they may.

I dont think any of that would be allowed.

[Galloism]

I absolutely agree. And there's states gerrymandered worse than Oregon (Ohio, come the fuck on now).

I think we could do a jury approach. We select like 6 random people from the public, we sequester them away from any news, and provide population data but not any partisan data, require the districts be within 2% population of each other, and let the districts fall where they may.

I dont think any of that would be allowed.

I mean, it would require a relevant state law be passed, but states are allowed to redistrict as they choose generally, so I don't see the issue with it.

[San Lumen]

I dont think any of that would be allowed.

I mean, it would require a relevant state law be passed, but states are allowed to redistrict as they choose generally, so I don't see the issue with it.

Not allowing someone to watch the news would raise all kinds of legal issues. I dont know if you could withhold partisan data as many states have requirements regarding how you can draw lines.

districts being within 2 percent of each is likely not possible in some states due to population density

[Galloism]

I mean, it would require a relevant state law be passed, but states are allowed to redistrict as they choose generally, so I don't see the issue with it.

Not allowing someone to watch the news would raise all kinds of legal issues.

Why? We do this for juries right now in certain cases.

I dont know if you could withhold partisan data as many states have requirements regarding how you can draw lines.

That seems like a state law could fix that.

districts being within 2 percent of each is likely not possible in some states due to population density

I mean, unless the population density involves thousands of people living in one house, you can always draw the lines to be within 2% of each other.

[San Lumen]

Not allowing someone to watch the news would raise all kinds of legal issues.

Why? We do this for juries right now in certain cases.

I dont know if you could withhold partisan data as many states have requirements regarding how you can draw lines.

That seems like a state law could fix that.

districts being within 2 percent of each is likely not possible in some states due to population density

I mean, unless the population density involves thousands of people living in one house, you can always draw the lines to be within 2% of each other.

A jury is not the same thing as a commission to draw legislative lines

What would this law be fixing? Allowing you to break up Portland into multiple districts?

[Galloism]

Why? We do this for juries right now in certain cases.



That seems like a state law could fix that.


I mean, unless the population density involves thousands of people living in one house, you can always draw the lines to be within 2% of each other.

A jury is not the same thing as a commission to draw legislative lines

What would this law be fixing? Allowing you to break up Portland into multiple districts?

#MakeElectionsCompetitiveAgain basically.

Oregon house elections:

2018, 4 democrats, 1 republican
2016, 4 democrats, 1 republican
2014, 4 democrats, 1 republican
2012, 4 democrats, 1 republican
2010, 4 democrats, 1 republican

This trend continues, by the way. All the way back to 1996, when a democrat defeated a republican in district 5.

There hasn't been a seat change, in either direction, in the house of representatives in over 20 years.

The fix is in.

[Thermodolia]

A jury is not the same thing as a commission to draw legislative lines

What would this law be fixing? Allowing you to break up Portland into multiple districts?

#MakeElectionsCompetitiveAgain basically.

Oregon house elections:

2018, 4 democrats, 1 republican
2016, 4 democrats, 1 republican
2014, 4 democrats, 1 republican
2012, 4 democrats, 1 republican
2010, 4 democrats, 1 republican

This trend continues, by the way. All the way back to 1996, when a democrat defeated a republican in district 5.

There hasn't been a seat change, in either direction, in the house of representatives in over 20 years.

The fix is in.

This is exactly the reason why I support Party List Proportional voting systems

[Thermodolia]

It doesn't matter when you have constituents who are dissatisfied with the district boundaries and for feeling like they're not represented?

Their districts reflect their population and how sparsely populated it is. What would your solution be?

Party List Proportional with a STV senate based around counties.

For example my state has some 149 counties. Each county should get 3 senators each elected by STV bringing the total number to 447, while the HoR would have 700 members elected by single district Party List PR

[San Lumen]

Their districts reflect their population and how sparsely populated it is. What would your solution be?

Party List Proportional with a STV senate based around counties.

For example my state has some 149 counties. Each county should get 3 senators each elected by STV bringing the total number to 447, while the HoR would have 700 members elected by single district Party List PR

I love how this became about election reform. I think we should restart a election reform thread as this is way off topic

[The Two Jerseys]

They can vote no on the bill. There are there to represent not obstruct.

What would your solution be to this supposed imposition by the majority of the state?

You are aware of how an election works for both the legislature and statewide offices correct?

So I'm sure you're quite against the truly landslide number of frivolous court cases where liberal groups have sued the Trump Administration for basic policy decisions?

The silence is deafening...

[San Lumen]

So I'm sure you're quite against the truly landslide number of frivolous court cases where liberal groups have sued the Trump Administration for basic policy decisions?

The silence is deafening...

irrelevant to the thread.

[The Two Jerseys]

The silence is deafening...

irrelevant to the thread.

And right on cue, Lumen once again hides behind the "not on topic" curtain in an attempt to avoid having to defend their argument...

[Thermodolia]

Party List Proportional with a STV senate based around counties.

For example my state has some 149 counties. Each county should get 3 senators each elected by STV bringing the total number to 447, while the HoR would have 700 members elected by single district Party List PR

I love how this became about election reform. I think we should restart a election reform thread as this is way off topic

You asked how we should fix the gerrymandering problem. Not having electoral districts is an easy way to fix it

[San Lumen]

I love how this became about election reform. I think we should restart a election reform thread as this is way off topic

You asked how we should fix the gerrymandering problem. Not having electoral districts is an easy way to fix it

and that would likely violate the Voting Rights Act as its unlikely in some states people of certain ethnic groups would get elected.

Many people dont know this but Oregon has a long history of racism. It was founded as a white state and specifically prohibited non whites from moving to the state with a law beginning in 1844. In 1857 it was enshrined into the constitution. The Black exclusion laws were repealed via referendum in 1926 with 62 percent voting in favor.

even today Oregon remains a a very white state compared to rest of the west coast and most immigration to the state is largely white. Portland in fact contains over two thirds of states African American population.

[Washington Resistance Army]

You asked how we should fix the gerrymandering problem. Not having electoral districts is an easy way to fix it

and that would likely violate the Voting Rights Act as its unlikely in some states people of certain ethnic groups would get elected.

The Voting Rights Act is racist and should be thrown out tbh

[San Lumen]

and that would likely violate the Voting Rights Act as its unlikely in some states people of certain ethnic groups would get elected.

The Voting Rights Act is racist and should be thrown out tbh

How?