Creationism in Public Schools

[The Grims]

Why this a debate? Should schools impose a doctrine? These should teach them both theories. Not a science inquisition. Did you forgot the Spanish Inquisition?
Science still working on new theories, so many things are relatively new.
Oh, I forgot, it's America, you can change it by a law, so doesn't matter. You can legalize or forbid everything you want.

There is only one theory here. Creatoinism is simply incorrect.

Or there are 10 billion, if we accept all the differing ideas to be worthy regardless of merit.

[Alvecia]

There is only one theory here. Creatoinism is simply incorrect.

Or there are 10 billion, if we accept all the differing ideas to be worthy regardless of merit.

Which we shouldn’t, really.

[Geneviev]

Creationism may encourage questioning science, but the idea that all academics are dishonest doesn't just come from creationism. It's caused by conspiracy theorists and some news.

Several articles you cited from creation.com say otherwise. While it may not directly say all academics are bad, it does say most are.

It says that evolution is wrong, which isn't really the same.

It definitely isn't scientific, but it's just a belief that doesn't harm anyone.

Then why accept this bullshit?

It doesn't hurt anyone if some people believe in creationism.

Five people want to teach only creationism.

If only it were that few.

[Vetalia]

You should have been here back in the day, we'd have 50 page threads on this kind of shit every other day.

Man, I remember those days too...it didn't stop. So many people were striving earnestly to be the ultimate great mind that would finally checkmate the (a)theists.

[Ifreann]

You should have been here back in the day, we'd have 50 page threads on this kind of shit every other day.

Unless it was a Sunday, because Father Shaughnessy made us go to church in the morning.

Where he'd lecture us on creationism.

---

You should have been here back in the day, we'd have 50 page threads on this kind of shit every other day.

Man, I remember those days too...it didn't stop. So many people were striving earnestly to be the ultimate great mind that would finally checkmate the (a)theists.

Good times.

Well. Kind of.

Not really.

Oh gods, I've wasted my life.

[Vetalia]

Good times.

Well. Kind of.

Not really.

Oh gods, I've wasted my life.

There are teenagers in this world right now that have never known a world without Ifreann and Vetalia.

[Tekania]

Good times.

Well. Kind of.

Not really.

Oh gods, I've wasted my life.

There are teenagers in this world right now that have never known a world without Ifreann and Vetalia.

It is scary to think that there are in fact people posting here who were not even born when some of us first joined Nationstates.

[New Legland]

So, we all agree? It would be a travesty to allow creationism in the science classroom?

[Neanderthaland]

So, we all agree? It would be a travesty to allow creationism in the science classroom?

All except OP. Who - on some level - seems to realize that Creationism is wrong, but can't bring himself to admit it.

[Rojava Free State]

So, we all agree? It would be a travesty to allow creationism in the science classroom?

All except OP. Who - on some level - seems to realize that Creationism is wrong, but can't bring himself to admit it.

He's scared that may be his religion is wrong and when he dies there will be nothing but emptiness and darkness, life being a crack of light between two endless oceans of black abyss.

[Rastrian]

All except OP. Who - on some level - seems to realize that Creationism is wrong, but can't bring himself to admit it.

He's scared that may be his religion is wrong and when he dies there will be nothing but emptiness and darkness, life being a crack of light between two endless oceans of black abyss.

That's the thing about creationists - it's fear that often keeps them there.
My father has concluded that evolution has to be wrong, and he's at least honest enough to admit that it's because it'd remove a lot of the basis for christianity were it correct. The fear keeps him willfully ignorant, and I think he's proud of that to some degree. I'm just glad I escaped from that when I did.

[Rojava Free State]

He's scared that may be his religion is wrong and when he dies there will be nothing but emptiness and darkness, life being a crack of light between two endless oceans of black abyss.

That's the thing about creationists - it's fear that often keeps them there.
My father has concluded that evolution has to be wrong, and he's at least honest enough to admit that it's because it'd remove a lot of the basis for christianity were it correct. The fear keeps him willfully ignorant, and I think he's proud of that to some degree. I'm just glad I escaped from that when I did.

My dad is wistfully ignorant on a lot of issues out of fear. He doesn't like when I bring up past violations of people's rights by our government because it secretly scares him that a supposedly Democratic nation could still violate human rights at home and abroad

[Katganistan]

Creationism should be taught in World History under Creation Myths.

[Soviet Tankistan]

As Tyson said; "People cited violation of the First Amendment when a New Jersey schoolteacher asserted that evolution and the Big Bang are not scientific and that Noah's ark carried dinosaurs. This case is not about the need to separate church and state; it's about the need to separate ignorant, scientifically illiterate people from the ranks of teachers."
Absurd beliefs should not be taught unless we want to be even more of an idiotic country.

[Neutraligon]

As Tyson said; "People cited violation of the First Amendment when a New Jersey schoolteacher asserted that evolution and the Big Bang are not scientific and that Noah's ark carried dinosaurs. This case is not about the need to separate church and state; it's about the need to separate ignorant, scientifically illiterate people from the ranks of teachers."
Absurd beliefs should not be taught unless we want to be even more of an idiotic country.

I believe I have heard the comparison it is like teaching that Elvis discovered Russia in 1922.

[Geneviev]

So, we all agree? It would be a travesty to allow creationism in the science classroom?

Some people in the poll don't agree. I still don't know who they are, though.

All except OP. Who - on some level - seems to realize that Creationism is wrong, but can't bring himself to admit it.

He's scared that may be his religion is wrong and when he dies there will be nothing but emptiness and darkness, life being a crack of light between two endless oceans of black abyss.

Close enough.

Seriously, though, my own opinion on creation has nothing to do with fear.

[Soviet Tankistan]

As Tyson said; "People cited violation of the First Amendment when a New Jersey schoolteacher asserted that evolution and the Big Bang are not scientific and that Noah's ark carried dinosaurs. This case is not about the need to separate church and state; it's about the need to separate ignorant, scientifically illiterate people from the ranks of teachers."
Absurd beliefs should not be taught unless we want to be even more of an idiotic country.

I believe I have heard the comparison it is like teaching that Elvis discovered Russia in 1922.

Prove it didn't happen! I seen it happen!

[Rastrian]

That's the thing about creationists - it's fear that often keeps them there.
My father has concluded that evolution has to be wrong, and he's at least honest enough to admit that it's because it'd remove a lot of the basis for christianity were it correct. The fear keeps him willfully ignorant, and I think he's proud of that to some degree. I'm just glad I escaped from that when I did.

My dad is wistfully ignorant on a lot of issues out of fear. He doesn't like when I bring up past violations of people's rights by our government because it secretly scares him that a supposedly Democratic nation could still violate human rights at home and abroad

I once did a study for my University course about the strategies of denial used in relation to history. It is surprising how similar some denialist methods are similar to those relating to drug and addiction problems, and I think the same is true here. You deny that something happens, and you compromise on that, until eventually, your only argument becomes "Well I can be wrong if I want to be". Denialism itself is addictive - it makes you feel as if you don't need to address the uncomfortable truth.

[Rojava Free State]

He's scared that may be his religion is wrong and when he dies there will be nothing but emptiness and darkness, life being a crack of light between two endless oceans of black abyss.

Close enough.

I'm kind of drunk, or maybe buzzed, so excuse me if this idea sounds weird but what if when you die, everything fades to silent blackness for a second, and then seasons in the abyss starts playing, and for the rest of eternity it plays on loop?

[Geneviev]

Close enough.

I'm kind of drunk, or maybe buzzed, so excuse me if this idea sounds weird but what if when you die, everything fades to silent blackness for a second, and then seasons in the abyss starts playing, and for the rest of eternity it plays on loop?

That's why Christians believe in heaven. Otherwise that would be really strange.

[Vetalia]

That's the thing about creationists - it's fear that often keeps them there.
My father has concluded that evolution has to be wrong, and he's at least honest enough to admit that it's because it'd remove a lot of the basis for christianity were it correct. The fear keeps him willfully ignorant, and I think he's proud of that to some degree. I'm just glad I escaped from that when I did.

I just don't see what the fear is, every single aspect of Christianity works perfectly with modern scientific understanding (save for those things which were truly miracles, which are outside of scientific understanding to begin with). I think this crisis of faith is much more common among Protestants who rely upon literal Biblical interpretation and sola scriptura as the basis for faith vs. the Apostolic Churches like us Roman Catholics or the Orthodox.

[Rojava Free State]

That's the thing about creationists - it's fear that often keeps them there.
My father has concluded that evolution has to be wrong, and he's at least honest enough to admit that it's because it'd remove a lot of the basis for christianity were it correct. The fear keeps him willfully ignorant, and I think he's proud of that to some degree. I'm just glad I escaped from that when I did.

I just don't see what the fear is, every single aspect of Christianity works perfectly with modern scientific understanding (save for those things which were truly miracles, which are outside of scientific understanding to begin with). I think this crisis of faith is much more common among Protestants who rely upon literal Biblical interpretation and sola scriptura as the basis for faith vs. the Apostolic Churches like us Roman Catholics or the Orthodox.

THe fear is that God will be mad at you for believing in blasphemy and will damn your soul to everlasting torture. Without the threat of hell, 90+% of people wouldn't belong the any of the three western religions.

[Rastrian]

That's the thing about creationists - it's fear that often keeps them there.
My father has concluded that evolution has to be wrong, and he's at least honest enough to admit that it's because it'd remove a lot of the basis for christianity were it correct. The fear keeps him willfully ignorant, and I think he's proud of that to some degree. I'm just glad I escaped from that when I did.

I just don't see what the fear is, every single aspect of Christianity works perfectly with modern scientific understanding (save for those things which were truly miracles, which are outside of scientific understanding to begin with). I think this crisis of faith is much more common among Protestants who rely upon literal Biblical interpretation and sola scriptura as the basis for faith vs. the Apostolic Churches like us Roman Catholics or the Orthodox.

I mean, a problem emerges when you try to argue that a part of the bible which isn't obviously written as allegory is said to be allegorical. Once that occurs, you can argue anything is allegorical.

Jesus' parables were obviously tales which didn't occur in reality, and they are written as such. But the bible places so much emphasis on the idea of god creating everything from nothing, to argue that this is allegory or just a story makes it seem difficult to reconcile with modern science. Plus other scientific inaccuracies - bats aren't birds, whales aren't fish etc.

I just think that if god inspired the bible, as many claim he did, he could have been much more specific in his inspiration. If modern scientists discovered a bible replete with anachronistic scientific knowledge, you'd find that alone would provide a major reason to believe in the christian story. And since god's aim is to allow humans an eternity with him (no matter how odd the way he goes about that), wouldn't he want to make it as clear as possible that his word is true?

I dunno, the whole creation narrative just seems to reflect a pre-literate and pre-scientific civilisation/tribal group who could not have known better, not the divinely inspired word and recount of a god.

[Geneviev]

I just don't see what the fear is, every single aspect of Christianity works perfectly with modern scientific understanding (save for those things which were truly miracles, which are outside of scientific understanding to begin with). I think this crisis of faith is much more common among Protestants who rely upon literal Biblical interpretation and sola scriptura as the basis for faith vs. the Apostolic Churches like us Roman Catholics or the Orthodox.

THe fear is that God will be mad at you for believing in blasphemy and will damn your soul to everlasting torture. Without the threat of hell, 90+% of people wouldn't belong the any of the three western religions.

For the most part, people who believe in creation don't believe it out of fear. Not believing in creation isn't considered a sin.

[Rojava Free State]

I just don't see what the fear is, every single aspect of Christianity works perfectly with modern scientific understanding (save for those things which were truly miracles, which are outside of scientific understanding to begin with). I think this crisis of faith is much more common among Protestants who rely upon literal Biblical interpretation and sola scriptura as the basis for faith vs. the Apostolic Churches like us Roman Catholics or the Orthodox.

I mean, a problem emerges when you try to argue that a part of the bible which isn't obviously written as allegory is said to be allegorical. Once that occurs, you can argue anything is allegorical.

Jesus' parables were obviously tales which didn't occur in reality, and they are written as such. But the bible places so much emphasis on the idea of god creating everything from nothing, to argue that this is allegory or just a story makes it seem difficult to reconcile with modern science. Plus other scientific inaccuracies - bats aren't birds, whales aren't fish etc.

I just think that if god inspired the bible, as many claim he did, he could have been much more specific in his inspiration. If modern scientists discovered a bible replete with anachronistic scientific knowledge, you'd find that alone would provide a major reason to believe in the christian story. And since god's aim is to allow humans an eternity with him (no matter how odd the way he goes about that), wouldn't he want to make it as clear as possible that his word is true?

I dunno, the whole creation narrative just seems to reflect a pre-literate and pre-scientific civilisation/tribal group who could not have known better, not the divinely inspired word and recount of a god.

I was raised in a Catholic family, and the more exposed to religion I was, the more I realized it's really just another method of oppressing and controlling people. If someone wants to believe it then it's on them to live in a constant state of paranoia and fear that the thing upstairs is watching them, but I don't need to believe it and others don't need to take part in it.