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Bribery and tax evasion undermine Italy - 160 G€/year loss

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Risottia
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Bribery and tax evasion undermine Italy - 160 G€/year loss

Postby Risottia » Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:40 am

Yesterday the Corte dei Conti (Accountants' Court - the supreme controllers of the State finances) released their yearly report.
They said that bribery in the public administration alone costs to the Italian State about 60 G€ every year (accounting both corruzione - private citizens and enterprises offering bribes to public officials - and concussione - public officials directly asking for bribes).
Tax evasion chops off another 100 G€/year from the State treasury.

(sorry, I couldn't google out a link in english)

As a comparison, the last manovra finanziaria (an yearly by-law made to "repair the coffers") costed to the italian taxpayers about 20 G€. If only Italy could cut down bribery and tax evasion by one third, we wouldn't need a manovra finanziaria and simultaneously we could lower taxes or repay our international debt.

So, what's the state of tax evasion and bribery in your country? What do you think it should be done?

As for Italy, I think we should:
a) invest more money and hire more personnel in the Guardia di Finanza (a military corps depending directly from the Ministry of Finances, whose aim is to fight tax evasion);
b) reduce the use of cash and increase the use of traceable payment methods (credit/debt cards, cheques, bank transfers), so the GdF and the Agenzia delle Entrate (the italian Tax Agency) can cross-check payments, living standards, and incomes;
c) tighten the rules for companies to eliminate the "chinese boxes";
d) make the IVA (italian acronym for the VAT) on most (if not all) consumer goods entirely detractable from the taxes: this way the customers will ALWAYS as for the receipt - also, this would reduce inequality in taxation and effectively lower consumer prices;
e) allow the magistrates and the police to use wiretapping and environmental recording a lot more (and not less, like Berlusconi asks) - this would give them a sharp tool against bribery.
Last edited by Risottia on Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ifreann
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Re: Bribery and tax evasion undermine Italy - 160 G€/year loss

Postby Ifreann » Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:42 am

Eh, does 160 G€ = €160,000 ?
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Yootopia
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Re: Bribery and tax evasion undermine Italy - 160 G€/year loss

Postby Yootopia » Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:42 am

G = Billion, aye?
End the Modigarchy now.

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Risottia
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Re: Bribery and tax evasion undermine Italy - 160 G€/year loss

Postby Risottia » Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:45 am

1 G€ = 1 GigaEuro = 10^12 Euro = one billion euro = un miliardo di euro.
1'000'000'000,00 € written the italian way. 1,000,000,000.00 € written the American way.

1 G€ = 852 million British pounds = 1.4 billion US dollars = 1.53 billion Swiss francs = 134 billion yen.
Last edited by Risottia on Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ifreann
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Re: Bribery and tax evasion undermine Italy - 160 G€/year loss

Postby Ifreann » Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:47 am

I've never seen currency used like a unit of measurement like that. Odd.

But wow, that is an insane amount of money lost to corruption.
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Yootopia
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Re: Bribery and tax evasion undermine Italy - 160 G€/year loss

Postby Yootopia » Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:48 am

Ifreann wrote:I've never seen currency used like a unit of measurement like that. Odd.

But wow, that is an insane amount of money lost to corruption.

Just remember that Italy's governments are about as stable as the zimbabwean dollar, and that the Mafia is still V. Powerful.
End the Modigarchy now.

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Risottia
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Re: Bribery and tax evasion undermine Italy - 160 G€/year loss

Postby Risottia » Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:56 am

Yootopia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I've never seen currency used like a unit of measurement like that. Odd.

But wow, that is an insane amount of money lost to corruption.

Just remember that Italy's governments are about as stable as the zimbabwean dollar, and that the Mafia is still V. Powerful.


Actually, with the sole exception of the 2006-2008 term (ended with snap elections), in the last 13 years we've had more stability in the Parliament than in the past. Both the 1996-2001 and the 2001-2006 parliamentary terms were completed without snap elections.

The problem is the mafias (yes, there's not just one organisation), and the culture of "essere furbo" (being smart): if you can evade the taxes do that, it's fine, let those who can't evade their taxes (like salary workers) pay for you, they're stupid anyway. If you can make money by dealing with the mafia that's fine as long as you don't get caught... etc, etc...

:palm: My country is a real mess. I'm really looking forward to emigration.
Last edited by Risottia on Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Molested Sock
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Re: Bribery and tax evasion undermine Italy - 160 G€/year loss

Postby Molested Sock » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:03 am

It's because you drive on the wrong side of the road.
100% 80% of the time.

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Risottia
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Re: Bribery and tax evasion undermine Italy - 160 G€/year loss

Postby Risottia » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:08 am

Molested Sock wrote:It's because you drive on the wrong side of the road.

Nope, we drive on the right side. :p
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Molested Sock
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Re: Bribery and tax evasion undermine Italy - 160 G€/year loss

Postby Molested Sock » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:14 am

Risottia wrote:
Molested Sock wrote:It's because you drive on the wrong side of the road.

Nope, we drive on the right side. :p

Wrong.
Left, then middle then right side.
Prior to WWII which side did you people drive on?
Did the Americans corrupt you?
100% 80% of the time.

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Eofaerwic
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Re: Bribery and tax evasion undermine Italy - 160 G€/year loss

Postby Eofaerwic » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:15 am

Molested Sock wrote:
Risottia wrote:
Molested Sock wrote:It's because you drive on the wrong side of the road.

Nope, we drive on the right side. :p

Wrong.
Left, then middle then right side.
Prior to WWII which side did you people drive on?
Did the Americans corrupt you?


Tsk. You can blame continental Europe driving on the right side firmly on Napolean, nothing to do with the US.
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Greed and Death
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Re: Bribery and tax evasion undermine Italy - 160 G€/year loss

Postby Greed and Death » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:17 am

I personally admire tax evaders who get away with it.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
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Yootopia
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Re: Bribery and tax evasion undermine Italy - 160 G€/year loss

Postby Yootopia » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:18 am

greed and death wrote:I personally admire tax evaders who get away with it.

I personally consider them treasonous.
End the Modigarchy now.

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Ifreann
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Re: Bribery and tax evasion undermine Italy - 160 G€/year loss

Postby Ifreann » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:19 am

greed and death wrote:I personally admire tax evaders who get away with it.

Tax evasion is theft.





In b4 taxation is theft.
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Greed and Death
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Re: Bribery and tax evasion undermine Italy - 160 G€/year loss

Postby Greed and Death » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:20 am

Yootopia wrote:
greed and death wrote:I personally admire tax evaders who get away with it.

I personally consider them treasonous.

And why is that ? is Italy at war and the funds needed for the common defense ?
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
Barack Obama

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Risottia
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Re: Bribery and tax evasion undermine Italy - 160 G€/year loss

Postby Risottia » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:20 am

Molested Sock wrote:
Risottia wrote:
Molested Sock wrote:It's because you drive on the wrong side of the road.

Nope, we drive on the right side. :p

Wrong.
Left, then middle then right side.
Prior to WWII which side did you people drive on?
Did the Americans corrupt you?


Italy switched to right-hand traffic in the early 1920's. So, I think it was eventually the French, or the Germans, who "corrupted" us.

Anyway, could we please go back to topic? What do you people think of my ideas to fight bribery and tax evasion?
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Yootopia
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Re: Bribery and tax evasion undermine Italy - 160 G€/year loss

Postby Yootopia » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:21 am

greed and death wrote:
Yootopia wrote:
greed and death wrote:I personally admire tax evaders who get away with it.

I personally consider them treasonous.

And why is that ? is Italy at war and the funds needed for the common defense ?

No, more on principle. The price of civilisation and such.
End the Modigarchy now.

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Yootopia
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Re: Bribery and tax evasion undermine Italy - 160 G€/year loss

Postby Yootopia » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:22 am

Risottia wrote:Anyway, could we please go back to topic? What do you people think of my ideas to fight bribery and tax evasion?

Too boring. People who don't pay their due taxes should have their houses set on fire. Tada.
End the Modigarchy now.

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Risottia
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Re: Bribery and tax evasion undermine Italy - 160 G€/year loss

Postby Risottia » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:22 am

greed and death wrote:
Yootopia wrote:
greed and death wrote:I personally admire tax evaders who get away with it.

I personally consider them treasonous.

And why is that ? is Italy at war and the funds needed for the common defense ?


Does Afghanistan ring a bell? ;)

Actually, maybe Italy would need the funds to have better schools, better universities, better hospitals, and of course better trains and better roads - if you've ever taken a trip through Italy you know what I'm speaking about.
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Risottia
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Re: Bribery and tax evasion undermine Italy - 160 G€/year loss

Postby Risottia » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:23 am

Yootopia wrote:
Risottia wrote:Anyway, could we please go back to topic? What do you people think of my ideas to fight bribery and tax evasion?

Too boring. People who don't pay their due taxes should have their houses set on fire. Tada.


And how do we discover them?
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Yootopia
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Re: Bribery and tax evasion undermine Italy - 160 G€/year loss

Postby Yootopia » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:24 am

Risottia wrote:
Yootopia wrote:
Risottia wrote:Anyway, could we please go back to topic? What do you people think of my ideas to fight bribery and tax evasion?

Too boring. People who don't pay their due taxes should have their houses set on fire. Tada.


And how do we discover them?

The same way we are now, unless the Guardia di Finanza is just making shit up to justify more funding.
Last edited by Yootopia on Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
End the Modigarchy now.

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Greed and Death
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Re: Bribery and tax evasion undermine Italy - 160 G€/year loss

Postby Greed and Death » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:25 am

Yootopia wrote:
Risottia wrote:Anyway, could we please go back to topic? What do you people think of my ideas to fight bribery and tax evasion?

Too boring. People who don't pay their due taxes should have their houses set on fire. Tada.

I live in an apartment complex and the owner of said complex has more guns then any 4 people I know.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
Barack Obama

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Yootopia
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Re: Bribery and tax evasion undermine Italy - 160 G€/year loss

Postby Yootopia » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:33 am

greed and death wrote:
Yootopia wrote:
Risottia wrote:Anyway, could we please go back to topic? What do you people think of my ideas to fight bribery and tax evasion?

Too boring. People who don't pay their due taxes should have their houses set on fire. Tada.

I live in an apartment complex and the owner of said complex has more guns then any 4 people I know.

Congratulations or something. Italians' mileage may vary.
End the Modigarchy now.

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Greed and Death
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Re: Bribery and tax evasion undermine Italy - 160 G€/year loss

Postby Greed and Death » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:35 am

Yootopia wrote:
greed and death wrote:
Yootopia wrote:Too boring. People who don't pay their due taxes should have their houses set on fire. Tada.

I live in an apartment complex and the owner of said complex has more guns then any 4 people I know.

Congratulations or something. Italians' mileage may vary.

Well ive been funding my trips to Italy smuggling for these guys name Don guns for years.
Why is everyone who wants guns in Italy named don?
I mean if the name makes people violent don't name your kid that.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
Barack Obama


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