How do we manage the incel epidemic?

[Nakena]

I don't fucking know - I would imagine that even before the internet, there were many men who went many years without sexual relations after finishing puberty. And I imagine, too, that in the grand scheme of things, it wasn't a huge deal. Some people just have a difficult time finding a partner for whatever reason, and I won't criticize it, I suppose. No harm, no foul.

It hasnt changed. But now some of those men find together on the internets and their bad feelings reinforce themself in the echochamber they build themself.

Sometimes people construct their own hell.

[The Union of the West]

And yet they exist.

Do they? Many relationships exist despite neither party wanting to be in them, they have ulterior reasons for remaining in them.

Those exist as well, yes. But that doesn’t prove that all relationships are unworkable for all people.

[Costa Fierro]

No, it's specifically you and Liriena disagreeing. Both of you have come to the conclusion, without any supporting evidence, that OP is an incel even though the incels wouldn't refer to themselves as an epidemic or ask what can be done about them.



lmao

Is everyone that you disagree with an incel?



Oh good, another boomer that thinks life experience is a substitute for legitimate scientific studies.

That's ok angry lad. Reading your admission of being in a divorce household explains a few things.

My parents haven't divorced. They're still married. Have been for 32 years. They can't divorce, because they don't have enough money for lawyers and both my brother and I still live with them despite the both of us being in our 20's.

No love in a house isnt a good way to live either.

Did I say there wasn't love in this house?

[Major-Tom]

I don't fucking know - I would imagine that even before the internet, there were many men who went many years without sexual relations after finishing puberty. And I imagine, too, that in the grand scheme of things, it wasn't a huge deal. Some people just have a difficult time finding a partner for whatever reason, and I won't criticize it, I suppose. No harm, no foul.

It hasnt changed. But now some of those men find together on the internets and their bad feelings reinforce themself in the echochamber they build themself.

Sometimes people construct their own hell.

Admittedly, I don't know enough about the topic to have a well-grounded opinion. I'm sure there are some echo-chambers on the internet that may add insult to injury for self-described "incels," but at the end of the day, what could be done about that? Unless we put some form of censorship on the table (which doesn't sound appealing), those sorts of communities will always be present.

[Cekoviu]

Because people disagree with something, it is an uncomfortable truth? Lmfao

No, it's specifically you and Liriena disagreeing. Both of you have come to the conclusion, without any supporting evidence, that OP is an incel even though the incels wouldn't refer to themselves as an epidemic or ask what can be done about them.

I'm going to form this in a logical structure so that it's easier for you to understand.
P1: OP uses terminology specifically or very closely associated with the incel community (chad, for example).
P2: OP has explicitly endorsed many of the underpinnings of incel ideology.
P3: OP has not expressed any overtly anti-incel opinions, unlike virtually every other user in this thread with the exception of you and Ostroeuropa (both of whom are masculist or bordering).
P4: OP has not denied being an incel when repeatedly being referred to as one.
C1: OP is an incel.
OTOH, your reasoning is that he says "epidemic" in reference to incels → he is not one.

[Costa Fierro]

Do they? Many relationships exist despite neither party wanting to be in them, they have ulterior reasons for remaining in them.

Those exist as well, yes. But that doesn’t prove that all relationships are unworkable for all people.

Being forced to remain in a relationship against your will generally doesn't meet the criteria of success, does it?

[Costa Fierro]

I'm going to form this in a logical structure so that it's easier for you to understand.

I understand complete. OP says something you don't like, ergo OP is an incel.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

im surprised no one brought this video up yet

Why am I not surprised it's ContraPoints? If you have to slather your face in makeup to get your opinion heard, your opinions are probably not worth considering.

Come back with a more substantial response and I might consider what you have to say.

So come back with something more substantial than your typical AdHom response.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I don't fucking know - I would imagine that even before the internet, there were many men who went many years without sexual relations after finishing puberty. And I imagine, too, that in the grand scheme of things, it wasn't a huge deal. Some people just have a difficult time finding a partner for whatever reason, and I won't criticize it, I suppose. No harm, no foul.

It hasnt changed. But now some of those men find together on the internets and their bad feelings reinforce themself in the echochamber they build themself.

Sometimes people construct their own hell.

Bold text: very much so.

[Saiwania]

If you just can't get laid no matter what and you're not good with other people, well- there's nothing inherently wrong about any of this in my view, provided they don't blame the outside world (that likely doesn't know they even exist) for their problems. Maybe its simply what fate has in store for someone. Its not viable to just remake someone's personality if its just not them.

My easiest inclination is to be a hermit if I don't want to even try. It'd be harder and more stressful for me to try to conform to what society expects of me. Any help society can offer is likely to not be helpful and a person that a society is trying to "reform" is likely to fail or be a let down. So its a recipe for resentment from both sides. "Missing out" in life doesn't have to be such a big deal because I know people can cope fine or accept what is.

There have been people that were imprisoned for 40+ years and arguably had life just pass them by, and by the time they're out they have nothing left; but many such people still manage to do relatively fine.

[Costa Fierro]

Why am I not surprised it's ContraPoints? If you have to slather your face in makeup to get your opinion heard, your opinions are probably not worth considering.

Come back with a more substantial response and I might consider what you have to say.

So come back with something more substantial than your typical AdHom response.

It is substantial.

[The Union of the West]

Those exist as well, yes. But that doesn’t prove that all relationships are unworkable for all people.

Being forced to remain in a relationship against your will generally doesn't meet the criteria of success, does it?

Forced relationships are unsuccessful and they do exist. But mutually consensual, happy relationships do exist as well, even if you don’t manage to obtain one.

[Nakena]

It hasnt changed. But now some of those men find together on the internets and their bad feelings reinforce themself in the echochamber they build themself.

Sometimes people construct their own hell.

Admittedly, I don't know enough about the topic to have a well-grounded opinion. I'm sure there are some echo-chambers on the internet that may add insult to injury for self-described "incels," but at the end of the day, what could be done about that? Unless we put some form of censorship on the table (which doesn't sound appealing), those sorts of communities will always be present.

Theres alot of things that could be done, but a lot of them require the assumption that theres a society or a public that actually cares. Which, at least in the case of the United States, I doubt it is. Which being said, containing the Incel communities could significantly reduce the influx of new people to their flawed creed.

I personally believe the mannosphere is in decline. Also maybe have Jordan Peterson a book write about it. I think he has really the potential to lead a lot of those people out of their misery.

[Ethel mermania]

That's ok angry lad. Reading your admission of being in a divorce household explains a few things.

My parents haven't divorced. They're still married. Have been for 32 years. They can't divorce, because they don't have enough money for lawyers and both my brother and I still live with them despite the both of us being in our 20's.

No love in a house isnt a good way to live either.

Did I say there wasn't love in this house?

Two people who dont want to be in the same house and are stuck their because of any factors is not by definition going to be a healthy home. I would hope they have worked out some sort of truce, and made their peace with it. I also hope both parents love you and your siblings, but not having reciprocal feeling between them, is not going to be helpful for any child development in that environment. Sorry Costa.

[The Black Forrest]

That's ok angry lad. Reading your admission of being in a divorce household explains a few things.

My parents haven't divorced. They're still married. Have been for 32 years. They can't divorce, because they don't have enough money for lawyers and both my brother and I still live with them despite the both of us being in our 20's.

No love in a house isnt a good way to live either.

Did I say there wasn't love in this house?

Oops my bad. Still an unhealthy environment does explain things and I am sorry for you.

[Costa Fierro]

Being forced to remain in a relationship against your will generally doesn't meet the criteria of success, does it?

Forced relationships are unsuccessful and they do exist. But mutually consensual, happy relationships do exist as well, even if you don’t manage to obtain one.

Mutually consensual and happy relationships don't exist. And I'm not basing it on personal experience either, even if I have a brother that has been in his current relationship for four years and my parents have been married for 32.

Why don't I base it on that? Because where I live, both of those relationships are subject to state intervention once they break down, because we have "common law marriage", meaning that the spouses are entitled to half of possessions and finances despite only my parents being married. My brother and his girlfriend have passed the threshold where the judge can classify them as being in a "de facto relationship" and thus the same aspects as a marital divorce apply. Once you're in that, you're being compelled to remain there by the prospect of divorce and the severe consequences of that happening.

[Liriena]

1. Remember when you said incels were not "one of us"? It's beginning to look to me like you were a bit full of it, since you seem to kinda agree that their lack of sex makes them "oppressed".

2. And your response is literally "you are right to despise women and changing women is off the table". The only difference is that you want them to exclude women from socialization instead of killing or enslaving them... which is pretty curious coming from the person who just acknowledged that lack of socialization can be seen as a human rights violation. So what happens when men stop socializing with women? Do women get to start "whining" again? Or are you going to argue that it's their "just desserts"?

3. When you describe an entire gender as inherently having one pretty negative character trait (selfishness) and engaging in negative behavior related to it, and go out of your way to argue that they're "beyond help" and we must stop empathizing with them because of their gender, that's demonization.

4. "It's not a solution to just gaslight incels and tell them their thoughts are wrong and everything they've noticed isn't real"
Because you happen to agree with their thoughts and observations, save for a couple details.

Do you think their observations are irrefutable? Unfalsifiable? Are incels paragons of objectivity or something?

1. Do you disagree with my explanation and if so, how?

2. Women can still socialize with eachother, and men can still socialize with women when they demonstrate empathy for men. I've been clear about that too. Men need to drastically raise their standards and expectations of women. They can whine all they want, we just shouldn't listen or care until they demonstrate good faith.

3. It's not inherent. You can't just ask nicely for segregation to end. You have to make it unworkable. So it goes for any kind of oppression and injustice.

4. They're falsifiable with studies, sure. Got any?

1. It's an interesting argument, but I'm not buying in wholesale until I get a second, third and maybe even fourth opinion.

2. So wanna play gatekeeper to other men's socialization with women?

3. "Oppression"? Dude, you just keep slipping up, eh?

4. I'm willing to look into it the moment you admit that you're peddling a misogynistic narrative and have been doing so for hours.

[Costa Fierro]

My parents haven't divorced. They're still married. Have been for 32 years. They can't divorce, because they don't have enough money for lawyers and both my brother and I still live with them despite the both of us being in our 20's.



Did I say there wasn't love in this house?

Two people who dont want to be in the same house and are stuck their because of any factors is not by definition going to be a healthy home. I would hope they have worked out some sort of truce, and made their peace with it. I also hope both parents love you and your siblings, but not having reciprocal feeling between them, is not going to be helpful for any child development in that environment. Sorry Costa.

Both of my parents want to be in the same house. Not sure where you got the impression from.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

So come back with something more substantial than your typical AdHom response.

It is substantial.

Ad hominem “lol she wears makeup to get attention so therefore she has nothing to say rekt” responses are hardly a substantial follow up to anything and is really nothing more than an empty shitpost. If all you can muster is ad hominem insults about ContraPoint’s appearance without any regard to what she actually has to say then maybe your opinions and arguments are not worth considering.

[Costa Fierro]

My parents haven't divorced. They're still married. Have been for 32 years. They can't divorce, because they don't have enough money for lawyers and both my brother and I still live with them despite the both of us being in our 20's.



Did I say there wasn't love in this house?

Oops my bad. Still an unhealthy environment does explain things and I am sorry for you.

It's not an unhealthy environment. I'm not sure where people get the impression that my parents hate each other's guts.

[Cekoviu]

I'm going to form this in a logical structure so that it's easier for you to understand.

I understand complete. OP says something you don't like, ergo OP is an incel.

I think it's awesome that you just totally ignored the rest of my post and then pulled reasoning out of your ass instead. Really shows how dedicated to logical and rational debate you are as well as how much good faith you're posting in.

[Costa Fierro]

It is substantial.

Ad hominem “lol she wears makeup to get attention so therefore she has nothing to say rekt” responses are hardly a substantial follow up to anything and is really nothing more than an empty shitpost. If all you can muster is ad hominem insults about ContraPoint’s appearance without any regard to what she actually has to say then maybe your opinions and arguments are not worth considering.

My arguments are worth considering, because they're not based in an imagined idea of how humans interact. They're based in facts, not idealism.

[The Union of the West]

Forced relationships are unsuccessful and they do exist. But mutually consensual, happy relationships do exist as well, even if you don’t manage to obtain one.

Mutually consensual and happy relationships don't exist. And I'm not basing it on personal experience either, even if I have a brother that has been in his current relationship for four years and my parents have been married for 32.

Why don't I base it on that? Because where I live, both of those relationships are subject to state intervention once they break down, because we have "common law marriage", meaning that the spouses are entitled to half of possessions and finances despite only my parents being married. My brother and his girlfriend have passed the threshold where the judge can classify them as being in a "de facto relationship" and thus the same aspects as a marital divorce apply. Once you're in that, you're being compelled to remain there by the prospect of divorce and the severe consequences of that happening.

And in places where legal complexities like that don’t exist?

[Cekoviu]

Ad hominem “lol she wears makeup to get attention so therefore she has nothing to say rekt” responses are hardly a substantial follow up to anything and is really nothing more than an empty shitpost. If all you can muster is ad hominem insults about ContraPoint’s appearance without any regard to what she actually has to say then maybe your opinions and arguments are not worth considering.

My arguments are worth considering, because they're not based in an imagined idea of how humans interact. They're based in facts, not idealism.

That's what everyone likes to think, but the reality is that every single person who's posted in this thread is not motivated purely or even in majority by evidence. Our own experiences and personalities dictate our opinions, not a single objective truth.

[Costa Fierro]

I understand complete. OP says something you don't like, ergo OP is an incel.

I think it's awesome that you just totally ignored the rest of my post and then pulled reasoning out of your ass instead. Really shows how dedicated to logical and rational debate you are as well as how much good faith you're posting in.

I ignored the rest of your post because it was fluff. Nothing more, nothing less. The fact is that instead of actually addressing the OP's points, and acknowledging that the OP isn't an incel, you went "that person is x" and therefore didn't need to invest time and effort into forming a proper response.

That's what everyone likes to think, but the reality is that every single person who's posted in this thread is not motivated purely or even in majority by evidence. Our own experiences and personalities dictate our opinions, not a single objective truth.

The objective truths are in the OP. I'm merely sitting back and reaffirming those truths.