How do we manage the incel epidemic?

[The Union of the West]

How you have a successful relationship? You seem to be completely convinced that love and respect and caring and honesty don’t make a relationship successful, so what does?

Nothing can make it successful. That's the thing. People spend so much time and effort making trying to make something that cannot work, work, and wonder why it falls apart. Humans aren't compatible with long term monogamy.

And yet there are many cases where it does work and relationships are successful even in the long term. Sure it’s in decline, but that’s probably due to our increasingly sexualized culture, not human nature (which probably doesn’t exist anyway).

[Cekoviu]

No, the OP is an actual unironic incel. Maybe you should read the posts that the OP made before acting all high-and-mighty.

OP isn't an actual urionic incel. They wouldn't refer to incels as an "epidemic" if they were.

Just because they point out a few uncomfortable truths that completely dismantle your entire worldview doesn't make them an incel. It means you need to reexamine what exactly is wrong about your way of thinking.

Yeah, basically none of what they said is true and my worldview is anything but dismantled, but nice try.

[The Blaatschapen]

Nothing can make it successful. That's the thing. People spend so much time and effort making trying to make something that cannot work, work, and wonder why it falls apart. Humans aren't compatible with long term monogamy.

To be fair, that doesn't mean that neither of them had any sex outside the marriage.

Still, impressive.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Nothing can make it successful. That's the thing. People spend so much time and effort making trying to make something that cannot work, work, and wonder why it falls apart. Humans aren't compatible with long term monogamy.

Remember, according to Costa, NOTHING can make it work. Not even your parents’s 46 year old and counting marriage. Nope.

[Nakena]

How you have a successful relationship? You seem to be completely convinced that love and respect and caring and honesty don’t make a relationship successful, so what does?

Nothing can make it successful. That's the thing. People spend so much time and effort making trying to make something that cannot work, work, and wonder why it falls apart. Humans aren't compatible with long term monogamy.

Sometimes it works, sometimes not. Its just the way life is. But thats no reason to go all into pathological negativism ala Incel. At least its something I would try to avoid , but I can understand some people blackpill themself.

[Costa Fierro]

And yet there are many cases where it does work and relationships are successful even in the long term. Sure it’s in decline, but that’s probably due to our increasingly sexualized culture, not human nature (which probably doesn’t exist anyway).

> human nature doesn't exist

And people think I'm wrong.

[Galloism]

Remember, according to Costa, NOTHING can make it work. Not even your parents’s 46 year old and counting marriage. Nope.

Crap, we're coming up on their anniversary. We need to get them a card or something.

[The Union of the West]

And yet there are many cases where it does work and relationships are successful even in the long term. Sure it’s in decline, but that’s probably due to our increasingly sexualized culture, not human nature (which probably doesn’t exist anyway).

> human nature doesn't exist

And people think I'm wrong.

Sure. Ignore everything else I said.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Remember, according to Costa, NOTHING can make it work. Not even your parents’s 46 year old and counting marriage. Nope.

Crap, we're coming up on their anniversary. We need to get them a card or something.

Shit, we are.

[Thepeopl]

How you have a successful relationship? You seem to be completely convinced that love and respect and caring and honesty don’t make a relationship successful, so what does?

Nothing can make it successful. That's the thing. People spend so much time and effort making trying to make something that cannot work, work, and wonder why it falls apart. Humans aren't compatible with long term monogamy.

So, with honest, open and curious communication , you can find people who think alike. And then you have a successful relationship with multiple partners. (See polyamorous)

[Ethel mermania]

Look kid, I understand why you can never have a happy relationship, to project that on 100's of millions of people is beyond asinine.

Oh I'm not projecting Ethel. Just stating the uncomfortable truth.

You are though, and you are in no position to do so.

I dont want to take this to a personal level, but my parents were happily married, they were crazy about each other. I am happily married, I hate being away from my wife and family. Harris says most Americans are happy with their significant others.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 95502.html

Of the folks who I know who are married more than 10 years I would say 70% of them are happy, and those that arent are on the road to divorce. Do the happy folks bitch about their spouses? Of course they do, would they get married to the same person again? For the most part, yes.

[The Black Forrest]

Oh I'm not projecting Ethel. Just stating the uncomfortable truth.

You are though, and you are in no position to do so.

I dont want to take this to a personal level, but my parents were happily married, they were crazy about each other. I am happily married, I hate being away from my wife and family. Harris says most Americans are happy with their significant others.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 95502.html

Of the folks who I know who are married more than 10 years I would say 70% of them are happy, and those that arent are on the road to divorce. Do the happy folks bitch about their spouses? Of course they do, would they get married to the same person again? For the most part, yes.

I am going on thirty

[Costa Fierro]

Nothing can make it successful. That's the thing. People spend so much time and effort making trying to make something that cannot work, work, and wonder why it falls apart. Humans aren't compatible with long term monogamy.

Oh look, two people that were born in an era where divorce was illegal and where social conventions of the time meant that a failed relationship was reflected on oneself.

You'll learn the hard way Gallo.

Remember, according to Costa, NOTHING can make it work. Not even your parents’s 46 year old and counting marriage. Nope.

Nothing. My parents have been married for 32 years and the only thing stopping them from going their separate ways is a lack of money and me. Other than that it's like living in a house with two angry elephants.

Yeah, basically none of what they said is true and my worldview is anything but dismantled, but nice try.

If it wasn't true you wouldn't have spent nearly as much time trying to tell people that it isn't, because it would be self-evident.

[Ostroeuropa]

Being angry at facts again Lir?

Your misogyny is not a fact, mate. Stop stealing valor from researchers to cover for your bigotry.

do you have a response to the evaluation of that study yet?

I have a question. Did you read that study before or after you decided that women were a selfish gender that must be held in contempt?

Care less about women. That is what we need to fix society. More apathy. Ignore them more. Tell them to quit whining and stop being such selfish babies.
Literally. Factually. Provably.

It's a harsh way of putting it

Harsh? I'd call it authoritarian, egotistic, myopic, and further proof that you're trying to blow smoke up my ass whenever you tell me that this is totally not a zero-sum game to you, pinky promise.

"Stop being such selfish babies", says the MRA whose NSG experience is mostly him trying to turn every single topic into 'this is proof men are oppressed but also anybody else who talks about oppression against any other group is a cultural marxist', and who thinks that just because powerful British feminists suck he gets to take a massive nuclear shit on all women everywhere and all the injustices they still face and tell them to "quit whining" because men suffer too lmao

Once again, if you disagree, try actually engaging with the evidence, don't just point to gynocentrisms a priori rejection of those concepts as evidence they are evil.

It's not gynocentrism to point out that something is rotten when you argue that women as a whole are selfish and need to be shunned. If you want people to engage with your ideas as if you'd presented an innocent, nuanced and serious argument, maybe start by not coming off like someone who's just projectile vomiting his resentment and then retroactively trying to excuse it with more nuanced vocabulary and hand-picked research.

Narcissists always think people who don't validate their shite are evil, and society has basically been gaslit by them.

This is literally you. This is your entire approach to feminists and progressives¿

Again, exceptions exist. It is not the norm.

Your ability to engage in tokenism won't cover your ass either.

1. I don't think it's misogyny to note these things.

2. Yes. I posted it first in support of my point. We probably got it from the same source. The collective selfishness and self-absorbtion can be concluded from this study and multiple others. It's a cultural trend that is toxic and destructive, women are not somehow immune to being shit people every now and then. Aztecs were a fucked up culture. Western women are fucked up. It's possible for every woman alive to be a shit person. That is a thing that can be true, you realize, it just doesn't have to be inherent.

3. Why don't you try demonstrating your perspective isn't biased. Because if I show you studies showing that most people can't tell fact from fiction, and you just respond that i'm egotistical, that's kind of ridiculous. I can demonstrate to you the link between all these concepts to prove my point and that it's backed by fact rather than narrative, and you know I can.

4. "Hand-picked research.". Okay, so show contradicting research. Show me men have in-group bias more so than women, and show eachother empathy but not women and demand women show men empathy but punish them for showing other women empathy. Show me. Show me the connection between that behavior and the proof of some kind of prevalent thought disorder like men thinking "If I am good, men must be good" being present in most men. Show me the connection between all those things and Ur-Mens Rights ideas. Put the work in and we'll discuss it. Why can't you engage with the idea that maybe women really are as a trend selfish and self-absorbed, suffering from a kind of collective narcissism? It's what the evidence suggests.

5. This is not literally me. I go out of my way to ensure I am backed by research. My point is that if you just a priori reject the idea that women might be shit, there's no way to point out they might be shit. Even if they are. When a narcissist gaslights someone and makes them ignore their flaws, that's what's happening there too.

6. It's not tokenism. I'm very aware of women who do not fit this trend and what makes them different. Your problem is that you are unwilling to consider that on the whole, women might be worse people than men in this society, and they might need to change. Why are you unwilling to consider that?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Happiness in marriage, long term, is possible. Does it mean that you’re not going to have disagreements? No. You will. You’re two different people who are together. Will you fight and argue? Yes. But that doesn’t mean that your marriage is miserable. It means you and your spouse are fucking human.

[Vetalia]

"You sir inserted your organ into this femoid and fathered a larva. If that stupid bitch went out with me at Prom in 2006 this would all be different."

Remind me not to read your posts while I’m trying to hydrate. The mess.

I added my date of graduation for that extra fun.

[Costa Fierro]

You are though, and you are in no position to do so.

I am in a position to make criticisms, and am doing so without projecting.

I dont want to take this to a personal level, but my parents were happily married, they were crazy about each other. I am happily married, I hate being away from my wife and family. Harris says most Americans are happy with their significant others.

Again, you say you're happily married. Most people do. Repeat it often enough and you'll start believing it.

[Cekoviu]

Yeah, basically none of what they said is true and my worldview is anything but dismantled, but nice try.

If it wasn't true you wouldn't have spent nearly as much time trying to tell people that it isn't, because it would be self-evident.

That's not how debates work lol

[Ethel mermania]

You are though, and you are in no position to do so.

I dont want to take this to a personal level, but my parents were happily married, they were crazy about each other. I am happily married, I hate being away from my wife and family. Harris says most Americans are happy with their significant others.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 95502.html

Of the folks who I know who are married more than 10 years I would say 70% of them are happy, and those that arent are on the road to divorce. Do the happy folks bitch about their spouses? Of course they do, would they get married to the same person again? For the most part, yes.

I am going on thirty

You are married 30 years? Jaysus I thought you were half my age.

[Cekoviu]

You are though, and you are in no position to do so.

I am in a position to make criticisms, and am doing so without projecting.

You are not in a relationship - in fact, your entire worldview is based around relationships being bad.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

You are though, and you are in no position to do so.

I am in a position to make criticisms, and am doing so without projecting.

I dont want to take this to a personal level, but my parents were happily married, they were crazy about each other. I am happily married, I hate being away from my wife and family. Harris says most Americans are happy with their significant others.

Again, you say you're happily married. Most people do. Repeat it often enough and you'll start believing it.

I find it telling that you’re here, trying to tell people that in reality, they’re just miserable. Yes, you’re projecting your own misery on others.

[Ostroeuropa]

1. A lack of sex probably is a human rights violation in sociological terms. A lack of social interaction is a human rights violation, we call it solitary confinement. While you're not entitled to have any specific person socialize with you, a general right to socialization is absolutely a human right. So it goes for sex. If a large number of people aren't having their needs met by a social system, that is evidence that system is oppressing them and needs to be reformed.

2. They think slavery and genocide because of the biotruth thing. Changing women is off the table because they don't believe women can change.

3. Criticism isn't demonization.

4. I've proposed solutions while dismissing feminist inspired gaslighting of them. It's not a solution to just gaslight incels and tell them their thoughts are wrong and everything they've noticed isn't real, or they're evil for noticing it. Explain what they've seen in more realistic terms.

1. Remember when you said incels were not "one of us"? It's beginning to look to me like you were a bit full of it, since you seem to kinda agree that their lack of sex makes them "oppressed".

2. And your response is literally "you are right to despise women and changing women is off the table". The only difference is that you want them to exclude women from socialization instead of killing or enslaving them... which is pretty curious coming from the person who just acknowledged that lack of socialization can be seen as a human rights violation. So what happens when men stop socializing with women? Do women get to start "whining" again? Or are you going to argue that it's their "just desserts"?

3. When you describe an entire gender as inherently having one pretty negative character trait (selfishness) and engaging in negative behavior related to it, and go out of your way to argue that they're "beyond help" and we must stop empathizing with them because of their gender, that's demonization.

4. "It's not a solution to just gaslight incels and tell them their thoughts are wrong and everything they've noticed isn't real"
Because you happen to agree with their thoughts and observations, save for a couple details.

Do you think their observations are irrefutable? Unfalsifiable? Are incels paragons of objectivity or something?

1. Do you disagree with my explanation and if so, how?

2. Women can still socialize with eachother, and men can still socialize with women when they demonstrate empathy for men. I've been clear about that too. Men need to drastically raise their standards and expectations of women. They can whine all they want, we just shouldn't listen or care until they demonstrate good faith.

3. It's not inherent. You can't just ask nicely for segregation to end. You have to make it unworkable. So it goes for any kind of oppression and injustice.

4. They're falsifiable with studies, sure. Got any?

[Nakena]

2. Yes. I posted it first in support of my point. We probably got it from the same source. The collective selfishness and self-absorbtion can be concluded from this study and multiple others. It's a cultural trend that is toxic and destructive, women are not somehow immune to being shit people every now and then. Aztecs were a fucked up culture. Western women are fucked up. It's possible for every woman alive to be a shit person. That is a thing that can be true, you realize, it just doesn't have to be inherent.

The question is, how big is this cultural trend really, how relevant is it in reallfie and do we know that it isnt some kind of weird fad or craze that we'd all look back in 10 years and are like "Oh remember when everyone was either SJW or Alt-Right and got all crazy?"

[Ostroeuropa]

2. Yes. I posted it first in support of my point. We probably got it from the same source. The collective selfishness and self-absorbtion can be concluded from this study and multiple others. It's a cultural trend that is toxic and destructive, women are not somehow immune to being shit people every now and then. Aztecs were a fucked up culture. Western women are fucked up. It's possible for every woman alive to be a shit person. That is a thing that can be true, you realize, it just doesn't have to be inherent.

The question is, how big is this cultural trend really, how relevant is it in reallfie and do we know that it isnt some kind of weird fad or craze that we'd all look back in 10 years and are like "Oh remember when everyone was either SJW or Alt-Right and got all crazy?"

The women are wonderful effect dates back to at least the 80s and has been consistent for decades, and is related to all these other phenomena. They're getting worse too.

[Costa Fierro]

So, with honest, open and curious communication , you can find people who think alike. And then you have a successful relationship with multiple partners. (See polyamorous)

Polyamory is multiplying problems. And if you think there's honest and open communication through the dating process, think again.

That's not how debates work lol

If it was objectively wrong, then it'd be self evident. Instead because people disagree with it, again, because it's an uncomfortable truth. That's all it is.